Toyota Halts U.S. Sale, Output of 8 Models as Image ‘Tarnished’

January 26, 2010, 08:29 PM EST
By Alan Ohnsman

Jan. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., struggling to stem widening quality concerns, will suspend production and U.S. sales of eight models that use a component that triggered a recall of 2.3 million vehicles.

Dealers will temporarily stop selling RAV4, Highlander and Sequoia sport-utility vehicles, Corolla, Camry, Avalon and Matrix cars and Tundra pickups, Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, said in a statement yesterday. Assembly lines at five North American plants will be idled the week starting Feb. 1. Mike Goss, a company spokesman, said he couldn’t immediately say how many units of production would be lost.

“Toyota had a bulletproof reputation for quality, and now it’s been tarnished,” said Jim Hossack, an industry analyst at AutoPacific Inc. in Fountain Valley, California. “It’s a dramatic move, and an expensive move.”

Toyota’s Jan. 21 announcement that it will recall more vehicles in the U.S. and Canada raises pressure on President Akio Toyoda to restore the company’s reputation. The carmaker’s U.S. sales fell 20 percent last year while those of South Korean rival Hyundai Motor Co., which is catching up with the Japanese carmaker in U.S. quality surveys, gained 8.3 percent.

Toyota declined as much as 3.4 percent to 3,740 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange and traded at 3,780 yen as of 9:54 a.m. local time. Honda Motor Co., Japan’s second-biggest carmaker, gained 0.2 percent while Hyundai rose 2.3 percent in Seoul. Japan’s Nikkei 225 Stock Average advanced 0.2 percent.

Record Recall

Toyota said last week it would recall vehicles in the U.S. and Canada because of a potential flaw in parts made by CTS Corp. that could, “in rare instances, mechanically stick in a depressed position or return slowly to the idle position.”

In November, Toyota recalled a record 4.3 million vehicles to reshape accelerator pedals to prevent them from getting stuck by driver-side floor mats. About 1.7 million vehicles are affected by both recalls.

Halting sales and production of some of Toyota’s best- selling U.S. models may mean hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue, said AutoPacific’s Hossack, a former engineer for Ford Motor Co., Chrysler Corp. and Mazda Motor Corp.

“Toyota needed to send a clear message they care more about their customers than monthly profits,” said Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive of Edmunds.com, a Web-based auto data service in Santa Monica, California. “The company has to get ahead of the problem.”

Production Halt

The eight models involved accounted for 56 percent of Toyota’s U.S. sales last year, said Koji Endo, managing director of Advanced Research Japan in Tokyo.

“On top of losing sales, stopping production means Toyota still has to deal with costs such as worker wages and depreciation,” Endo said. “The full extent of the damage depends on how long it will take.”

The announcements have fueled concern that rapid expansion by the Toyota City, Japan-based company in the past decade led to production and design glitches, risking its reputation for quality.

“Helping ensure the safety of our customers and restoring confidence in Toyota are very important to our company,” Bob Carter, group vice president of Toyota’s U.S. sales unit, said in the statement. “This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized.”

Toyota has said it’s still investigating the cause of the pedal flaw and hasn’t yet determined a precise fix. Toyota said yesterday it may extend recalls to Europe where models using similar pedal components have been sold.

The company’s U.S. sales headquarters are based in Torrance, California.


--With assistance from Makiko Kitamura in Tokyo. Editors: Terje Langeland, Patrick Harrington.

LINK: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-26/toyota-halts-u-s-sale-output-of-8-models-as-image-tarnished-.html

Wow that's crazy. I hope no one loses their job since they won't be making sales of their most popular vehicles.

I guess they forgot what Deming taught them

So far what I have been able to piece together is it is only throttle assemblies made by CTS, headquartered in Ontario, CA http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/pedal/technology.htm

It does not apply to assemblies made by Denso.

So far the recalls and sales halt apply to 4.3 million Toyotas (and to Pontiac Vibe, but GM has not issued a recall even though they have admitted the Vibe is also affected).

Since the sales halt applies to both new and used vehicles, the dealers will be seriously hurting since it is unlikely that any fix will be approved in less than a month, and REPAIRING 4.3 million vehicles (or even making parts TO repair them) could take a considerable time.

Again, from what I have been able to piece together this applies only to "fly-by-wire" systems, not the mechanical control accelerators.

(As an xB Classic owner, I'm relieved by THAT small detail.)

http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/press_releases/nr070625.htm
http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/press_releases/nr081113.htm


Tom

4.3 million?? Wow, that's a huge oopsies.

(As an aside, I had a non-Toyota vehicle with electronic throttle control that from the day it was delivered had throttle control problems: It would select a random number between 600 and 6000 rpm and use that as it's idle RPM. In the first two months I had that vehicle it spent more time in the dealer's shop for the problem than it spent with me. The first time it happened was at a traffic light while we were waiting for it to change. The engine suddenly went from it's normal idle to full throttle. :shock:

The dealer replaced numerous parts, eventually replacing EVERYTHING that had anything to do with throttle control except the wiring harness. It finally ended up with a couple of engineering folks flown out from the manufacturer going over the controls inch-by-inch, and they somehow determined that there was a factory error in the engine control wiring harness, and had a complete new harness shipped to the dealer.

Bill, the dealer's head mechanic, who had grown to absolutely HATE that car, got the job of replacing the wiring harness. He did a beautiful job, and that corrected the problem.

After I'd had it back for a couple of weeks with no problems we decided to thank Bill and his crew and got a couple hundred bucks of goodie trays from a local deli, took a day off work and took them to the shop for the shop crew.

When I pulled up to Bill's open garage door in that car mid-morning in the middle of the week, Bill went to the employee break room and refused to come out, so I had a couple of the guys help me carry those big platters of fancy food into the break room and told Bill the car was working fine and this was a thank you for the service crew - we also said it was OK to chase the vulchers from Sales out until Service got everything they wanted. It was theirs.)

Electronic throttle problems are not something new.

http://dailyme.com/story/2010012700000025/toyota-temporarily-halts-sales-models.html

this is definately a blow to toyota :(

Excerpt from an article at www.safetyresearch.net (http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/27/so-who-called-toyota/)

Last Thursday, Toyota tried to seize the high road, announcing that it was recalling 2.3 million vehicles, encompassing eight models mostly in the 2009 and 2010 model years, for accelerator pedals that might not release when the driver eased off the gas. Some of the recall population involved vehicles not yet sold. The automaker claimed that the problem was a wear issue, and was planning to sell the defective vehicles, as is, with the proviso that new owners who noticed the problem could bring the vehicle to the dealer for the remedy.

This was pointed out, with some disbelief, by several news articles on the recall. What they didn’t mention was Part 573.11: Prohibition on sale or lease of new defective and noncompliant motor vehicles and items of replacement equipment. This section expressly forbids selling a new defective vehicle or component until it is remedied.

Four days later, the fanfare was cut short by yesterday’s announcement that Toyota would stop selling these vehicles until the new pedal assemblies were installed.

Oops. (http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/27/so-who-called-toyota/)

Click the link above to read the full article.

I have another question...

For years Toyota has told us over and over that the US sold cars made in the US are identical in parts and quality to the US sold cars made by them in Japan.

Here we see a problem with the US made cars using the CTS designed and manufactured throttle control (gas pedal) that is NOT a problem in the Japan made cars that use a unit made by Denso, and the two units are not interchangeable.

If the US made and Japan made vehicles use common parts not interchangeable between the two, how can they be "the same?"

Just wondering.

Good luck with Toyota recovering from this one.

I think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. It's only been a few vehicles that have the problem and most of the ones that do the owners are not smart enough to just turn off the key. It's also sad that it's because of a supplier made part.
Toyota should come out of this fine tho I hope.

I have a 2010 Scion xD and the Toyota recall is not good news. from my reading here do I understand correctly that the manufacturer of the part causing the problem is not the same for the same part used in
the 2010 xD?
Dealership told me the xD is made entirely in Japan.

Thanks.

"Here we see a problem with the US made cars using the CTS designed and manufactured throttle control (gas pedal) that is NOT a problem in the Japan made cars that use a unit made by Denso, and the two units are not interchangeable."

Yep, the part was made by a supplier in China and installed at various different Toyota plants. This is what they get for trying to go global instead of keeping stuff made in Japan.

NO LEXUS, NO SCION, NO JAPANESE PRODUCTION ARE EFFECTED. The US Camry SEs not effected. They use the performance Denso units. Same with Camry Hybrid, not effected. Sienna vans not effected. The Japanese units involved are the Lexus component and while individual parts are not interchangeable with standard CTS the entire pedal assembly is.

Basically the US Corollas, US RAVs, US Highlanders, US Camry, Tundra, US/Canada MATRIX, Avalon are the ones using the CTS parts with questionable spring. The only issue is that this firm is the biggest supplier to most of the automakers( Honda, Nissan to name a few). Toyota out sources CTS pedals to China so this will get bigger for Toyota. Also there was someone in a turbo chat about there 09 Nissan Altima throttle sticking and their wreck. Guess whom makes the pedal?... CTS out of Elkhart,IN sameplace as Toyota.

I must admit I am glad that they just pull every vehicle using the unit instead of figuring out which are the bad batches. Fix them all and no issues down the road.

The press will kill them but you have to admit two to three weeks and its done versus the 4-5 years battle with GM over my truck and Suburban brakes. I paid off the vehicles by the time they finally took care of the problem they knew was there at construction. (kinked/crimped right front brake lines)

By the way, once the NHTSA approves the repair rumor has it that Toyota will be making about 210,000 pieces/day so Toyota should have it handled in about 3 weeks for all the cars sold and at dealer property. My Camry is part of the recall my xB is not and my Sienna is not. I am cool they will get me handled.

As the earlier post asked. Hello Vibe anyone??? Why is Goverment Motors not doing anything?

actually all this "us-company bashing" that I see here isn't correct at all. CTS which from what I've been reading made the part all over the world at various manufacturing plants. BUT!! The part was "Designed by Toyota, manufactured by CTS". This design fault lies with the engineers at TOYOTA, not CTS. How convenient it is to blame the "US company" for the faulty parts when Toyota was the one who designed it in the first place.

The Denso part which also, from what I've read, is in all Scions since our cars are made in Japan. The Denso part from what I know was not designed by Toyota but by Denso themselves.

And let's be honest here, looking at both parts, the Denso part is much higher quality, the one from CTS (thanks to Toyota) has been gone over by the "bean counters" and cheapened significantly from the Denso part. This time the cost reduction techniques by Toyota just caught up with them. You can't continue to squeeze and squeeze costs out of a product without affecting quality/longevity. Deming who the Japanese revere as a master of their production techniques even taught that there is a point at which too much cost reduction will result in part failures (too low quality).

But come on people, stop blaming the american company, they only built what Toyota asked them to. Maybe companies should refuse to build something if it's too cheap quality, then again all it seems that is important is the sales figures.

I will also say that if other makers of CTS' products turn out to be faulty, then yeah CTS deserves to go under if it's more than just the Toyota-designed pedal.

UPDATE: I found two pictures from Edmunds.com when they inspected their cars.

First link is the DENSO part which is similar to the one our Scions have and you can clearly see the four bolts that define the Denso part.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2007_Camry_1600_throttlepedal_Denso_Al_closer_marked.jpg


The second link is the recalled CTS product, look how much "cheaper" it is wow that's sad. Here it is
http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010_Camry_1600_throttlepedal_CTS_Bob_closer_marked.jpg

Wow, what a difference in part quality. Nice pics!

Once again horrible Chinese quality control has screwed the American consumer.

I believe that Toyota provides the overall package size and shape, and the input/output requirements, but does NOT control in any ways manufacturing methods or actual part design.

Basically they (and other vehicle manufacturers) say something like "we need a part that converts pedal position to a specific output, and the output must change in the following prescribed way as pedal position changes. The device must return to it's zero position mechanically and electrically withing sunch and such time, and require a progressive pressure of between x and y to move through it's full range of position and output.

Mounting pads and shape of mounting must be as per figure a, overall size and shape must conform to figure b, electrical connector must be per figure c... etc."

It is up to the supplier to come up with the details of the design that fit the way their machinery works and is cheapest and easiest for them to produce while meeting the quality requirements (number of operations in it's lifetime, etc.). (MTBF on something like this on the standard CTS designs is 3 million operations of the pedal...)

Remember, the manufacturer gets the job pretty much by being the cheapest bid to make a compliant part (low bidder).

Ever since Toyota started the Denso company, they have been a quality producer. Their parts are very good, with tremendous attention to detail.

Check this link, CTS is also proud of the manufacturing designs it makes to meet their clients' (auto manufacturers') needs: http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/services.htm

Basically, Toyota gives the part manufacturer a set of specification that a part must meet (size, shape, input, output, basic materials, temp range, durability, etc.), the manufacturer generally determines how THEY want to build it to meet those specs.

It appears that the CTS product may not be meeting all the specs they were given...

(In other words it is still very much up in the air if Toyota or CTS is most to blame for the parts of the design that are failing, but it is looking more like CTS since the Denso part designed to the same spec isn't having the problem, whatever it is.)

Still waiting for enough details to make a determination, but it is sounding like maybe it is one too many plastic-on-plastic rubbing contact areas in the CTS design...

Toyota letter to dealers:

http://tijil.org/Toyota_letter_to_dealers.pdf

CTS (throttle pedal assembly supplier) is turning out metal shims for poorly designed assemblies to aleviate plastic-to-plastic rubbing until final fix is available.

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pedal-vs-denso-pedal-image-toyota-recall/

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-corporation-executive-claims-solution-has-been-made-with-toyota/

Ford halts sales of Chinese built vans with CTS throttle pedals...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aVOYYwFUnD.I (updated link)

Toyota press releases:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/manufacturing/statement-from-toyota-on-supplier-153203.aspx

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-consumer-safety-advisory-102572.aspx

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/FAQ-for-Sticking-Accelerator-Pedal-152196.aspx

There are other links to additional info at the above Toyota pages.

CTS says fixes faulty Toyota pedal design

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2819870520100128?type=marketsNews

Hallelujah Tomas!!!

That is the whole frickin nutshell. I wish ABC would stop lying. My wife was spooked but the moment she read these links she sounded like ABC killed Kenny, you B@$t@ards!!

By the way the businessweek link 404 'd on us

well this just got more interesting. According to this newest recall, yes another one, Toyota cars in Europe are being recalled for the same gas pedal problem. And some of those are made in Japan! Here's the link

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/29/officially-official-toyota-europe-recalling-8-models-1-8-milli/

I just heard that Honda is recalling 75,000 Fits that may have this same problem.

^^ the fits from what I heard was a problem with the door/window mechanism, the switch for that operation

^^ the fits from what I heard was a problem with the door/window mechanism, the switch for that operationOh, OK. My bad, I just caught part of the story and assumed.:icon_frown:

Asia and Eurpopean models with CTS components are added. I also just saw on MSN that Toyota said that the repair is even easier than originally thought and the government approved the repair too.

I think all the media hoopla over this is hilarious. Like this minor thing is going to hurt Toyotas reputation in the long run. Atleast Toyota is doing the right thing unlike the big 3 did everytime.

^^ the right thing? NHTSA (Nat'l Highway Transportation Safety Admin) told Toyota to stop production so doing the right thing? More like they were forced by law. Since for 5 days before that, they planned on selling the cars, until NTHSA had a "chat with them, reminding them of the law". Which is they cannot sell a car that has a known defect.

And a "minor thing" are you serious? A car that can accelerate out of control and not respond to throttle inputs isn't minor. And 16 people who are dead isn't minor either

An alleged "untended acceleration" problem that never really existed nearly killed Audi - a top quality brand - in the United States back before most of you learned to drive (sorry, it's true: 1986), so most of you may not have ever heard of it.

Major or minor, this could seriously hurt Toyota if not played right.)

Back story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes#Unintended_acceleration

^^

And a "minor thing" are you serious? A car that can accelerate out of control and not respond to throttle inputs isn't minor. And 16 people who are dead isn't minor eitherIt should be a minor thing cause all they had to do was turn off the key or pop it into neutral and it would stop right away. Problem being is people panic too easily and don't do the right thing. There is such a thing as being in complete control of your vehicle at all times.
I'd still like to see some real numbers of how many times it was actually the floor mat causing the issue.

It should be a minor thing cause all they had to do was turn off the key or pop it into neutral and it would stop right away. Problem being is people panic too easily and don't do the right thing. There is such a thing as being in complete control of your vehicle at all times.
I'd still like to see some real numbers of how many times it was actually the floor mat causing the issue.
have you ever had a throttle stick? Its not always that minor! it takes the brain .4 seconds minimum to tell your foot or hand to react from the time your brain computes the situation thats why racers use the last yellow light on the tree instead of the green to launch that assumes that your hand or foot is in the exact positon it needs to be and you are antisipating the situation real world variables make it more like 1.5 seconds. I agree no one should have died from this situation if they had some very basic knowledge of how their car worked, but please don't turn the key you will lose steering assist and since motor skills diminish under stress you may turn it to far and lock the steering just bump the shifter it will almost find N on its own.

have you ever had a throttle stick? Its not always that minor!

Please allow me to answer that: Yes, a number of times, and you are right, it can be a challenge.

First time it was my brand new '69 Plymouth Barracuda, and it was due to a factory defect in the throttle cables for some models that caused them to jam.

It was on Meandering Road near Carswell AFB outside Fort Worth, TX, and having a massively over powered car suddenly decide to continue accelerating when you take your foot off the accelerator is, er, "exciting."

I was able to get the 'Cuda shut down and pulled over without a problem on that twisty road because I was paying attention and had SOME idea of what I was doing.

Years later I had another vehicle with a factory defect that the dealer thought they had fixed several times, but each time they returned it would wait a few days then suddenly jump to 6000 RPM and take off. I kept that one under control, too, and did not crash it. (The problem was eventually found and repaired with factory help.)

Many years earlier, I had the brakes on my '55 Chevy totally fail when the Caddy Eldorado in front of me did a panic stop in downtown Tacoma right in front of me. When I slammed on the brakes, the side of the master cylinder shattered and I had zero hydraulic brakes and maybe 20 feet and closing fast to the Caddy, I steered up over the curb between a hydrant and a light poll and grabbed a huge handful of emergency brake (they were called that then, not parking brake). No collision.

Mechanical devices fail. When driving it is our responsibility to maintain control, and to be ready for those failures. It is also our responsibility to know how to properly respond to those emergencies, not to just throw our hands in the air and blame someone else.

A lot of the people driving cars should not be. They are not competent to handle the emergencies that will come up, and they crash, injuring themselves and others.

That was one thing I really liked about being a pilot: You had to prove you knew what you were doing, knew how all the parts of the plane worked and that you knew how to handle emergencies before you were allowed to fly without an experienced person in the right seat to take over in case you failed.

(My first instructor pilot used to really enjoy killing the engine without warning - on take-off, on landing, over water, over forest, middle of a city, anywhere, and force his students to instantly find the only right solution to the sudden problem that presented. I made many dead-stick landings in unexpected places with him.)

Anyway, some of us have been driving long enough and hard enough to have encountered most of the expected problems that really test a driver, from stuck accelerator, to no brakes, to unexpected acceleration, to full electrical failure coming down a mountain at night. Those who are competent usually survive.

"Luck favors the prepared."

Video of pedal fix...

http://www.projo.com/video/?nvid=412993

^^^So its THAT EASY!!!

I still love this statement from that one guy from Washington DC...."Don't drive these cars....Drive to your dealer and get it looked out" LMAO Good ole American government!

Still, I feel this whole problem was made out more than it really was. And it was a chance for ammo against TMC for the US government and American automakers. Think about it: during the "Cash for Clunkers" Toyota sold more than any other automaker. While the government came up that idea to help out American automakers and it backfired. Just my $.02s.

Like I said on other Scion site...

Cars are machines. We risk our lives everytime; we step into one. Anything could happened while driving. A speeding car cuts you off on a interstate and slams right into you; you slam off the road into ditch and you slam your head onto the driver's side window and your neck snaps...Just watch "101 Ways to Die" on Spike TV.

The biggest mistake by Toyota was not jumping on this and halting sales after the first incident. In that case, they become mostly the good guy, protecting their customers. A lot of people now are going to be against them because it looks like they were just going to continue on as normal until they were forced to stop selling. Right or wrong, that perception means as much or more to many customers than the type of car you sell.

And Tomas... I never knew of a 198X audi sold in the US that was not a horribly unreliable pos.. I knew 3 people with them at one point... none of them managed to stay running more than a few months before they broke down... so I dont know about "top quality brand" back then :P

And Tomas... I never knew of a 198X audi sold in the US that was not a horribly unreliable pos.. I knew 3 people with them at one point... none of them managed to stay running more than a few months before they broke down... so I dont know about "top quality brand" back then :P

Heheheheheheh... You have a point there, but based on price and advertising Audi was claiming such. (I could say same thing about many other "top brands" of cars...)

Any other videos of that fix Tomas? That one won't play for me and I can't find one on Youtube.

Any other videos of that fix Tomas? That one won't play for me and I can't find one on Youtube.

At a M&G, sitting in a bar right now - I'll check when I get back to a 'puter.

IMO Toyota has become laxed much like the old GM. Maybe this will be a wakeup call to them since this may help tarnish their reputation. I do not hate this company but some of the Toyota/Honda loyalist I have meant in my life make me want to vomit.

Sorry, that's the only copy of the video I can find so far. :(

I still love this statement from that one guy from Washington DC...."Don't drive these cars....Drive to your dealer and get it looked out" LMAO Good ole American government!
I got a kick out of that statement. I wish I was there to call him out on that....."O, you want us all to stop driving out only mode of transportation? Than give us all GM and Chrysler products that we've paid with for with our tax dollars than. Since it's much safer to drive in an American car that can't stop or steer. " :rofl:

Stupid government.

And Toyota is turning into the new GM. The pedal sticking is because they used different, cheaper materials than on what they use for the Denso Pedals.
Cost cutting CTS pedal.
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/01/camryctspedal-525x350.jpg
Beefier Denso unit.
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/01/camrydensopedal-525x350.jpg

And Toyota wants its suppliers to cut costs by 30-40%......If we're having this problem before the more cost cutting, imagine how much worse it will get afterward.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1040602_toyota-wants-suppliers-to-cut-costs-by-30

Just out of curiosity, does a 2006 xB have an electronic throttle or is it still a traditional cable linkage? I'm sure Tomas can answer this in .005 seconds. :)

The drive by wire didn't start on this motor till the Yaris and maybe the Prius. xB/Xa are all cable. I was shocked to see my Dads Yaris not have a throttle cable.

My Dad got the recall done on his 09 Camry, and so far he's pleased. He told me on his drive home almost all the tranny shifting issues he's been having feel like they're gone, and the car is now flying where as before it would lag and the car would feel like you hit a wall when cruising that made the car start to slowly slow down and you had to give the vehicle more throttle. He's going to be keeping an eye on it for the next few weeks but if it's still the same.

I'm bringing in my Matrix Monday to get this done. I'll see if I experience the same results.

bB2NER already gave the correct answer by the time I saw the question. :) xA and the original xB were all mechanical, not electronic throttle control.

It's quite funny how it works out....

Toyota tries to get cheaper materials to save a buck...Now they're gonna get stuck paying three bucks more to fix everyone's problem.

I feel sorry for Mr. Akio Toyoda. First year he becomes president; he has to deal with all of this crap. He stated during the press conference, that he will personally improve quality with a committee. This is the same man who walked onto a Michigan Toyota dealership lot and went underneath a Tundra to see the quality in 90 degrees weather while wearing a business suit. Of course, the dealer didn't know who he was. lol

I don't know if you guys have been watching Toyota's stock. Yesterday, it got down to 50-something points. Today, it got up to 75 points.

he is also stated a while back that they were on a backslide and could really be in trouble if not careful... well this is there Tylenol moment

The below is something I posted on another web forum, but I am pleased to see that my Xb has a different pedal. I just wonder if it is any better.

As for the repair video, I thought they were gluing these shims in, not just snapping them into place, so the comment in the end may not be applicable - but I thought I would leave it in, just for completeness.

Background - My day job is a design engineer for turbine components
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an example of really poor design, perhaps even exceeding the Triumph Bonneville broken spoke fiasco. There are a couple of things to look at on the Toyota site - this video

http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/pedalassembly.html (http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/pedalassembly.html)

Shows how this fly by wire pedal works.

Notice the "designed in" Friction device, supposed to replicate the feel of a cable operated pedal – Why?

There is also a picture showing where the pivot points are on the devices - here... (download the larger one)

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/photo.aspx?fid=93538&id=E0C18554 (http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/photo.aspx?fid=93538&id=E0C18554)

The circled views are top looking down views, the ones below are side views. The whirling propeller symbol is a pivot on the friction device. It’s in the wrong place for a failsafe system.

When the pedal is pushed down and released, the V shaped grooves rub on the turning pedal pivot. Pushing down on the pedal is a trailing rub on the spring loaded friction device, not a problem. Lifting your foot off puts the rub device in a leading pattern - bad. Like twin leading shoe brakes (for us old timers)

Think of it like working a broom. Put the broom on a smooth concrete floor and pulling the broom backwards over the floor is easy. Pushing it forward is a bit harder... the forward push is similar to the pedal being released - Leading friction arm.

Now say that wear debris and moisture have changed the concrete floor to carpet. Pulling the broom back (=pushing the pedal down) is still fairly easy. Pushing the broom forward on carpet, it ain't happening (= releasing the pedal)

That’s why it sticks

To make matters worse they use tapered edges which enhances the friction and jamming effect - just like a morse taper on a machine tool spindle.

What about the shim???
It is supposed to limit the amount the wedges self jam.
Have you ever tried to glue anything to plastic??? Hard isn't it!!
What do you think the chances of a mechanic with oily hands has of being able to successfully stick that shim to a piece of plastic that is meant to be slippery.

My recommended fix??!!??!!??

Cut the friction arm off. We don’t need no stinking friction arms!

Rich

P.S. I hope the denso vesion is not designed on the same principle.

As an old tired, er, REtired engineer, I agree with you, Rich.

The angles and materials in the CTS designed pedal assembly are questionable at best (and have empirically proven to be a poor choice to the tune of about $2 Billion loss to Toyota).

While some drag/friction is needed in the pedal assembly, due not just to the insensitivity of the foot (poor proprioception) in position sensing, but also due to the variable stiffness of outer protection (shoes/socks) that is worn on the foot that further dampens what little accurate feel might exist, the reversed design of the drag component in the pedal assembly is at first glance frightening.

The self-tightening action is exactly the opposite of what logic would demand. :(

Thanks for the links and the comments!

Except not having similar friction to a standard pedal would mean that people would hate the system even more. An issue with electrically operated items in these applications is that it is very easy to under modulate your foot motion and cause jerky reactions on the throttle. Some of that can be programmed out in a system, but after a point the damping in the program causes the throttle to respond properly in other situations. So the pedal needs to have enough friction to help with this. A cable operated system has that built in from the get go. The feel feedback of the throttle is important to the way the system works.

I do agree, however that they need to have a different means of going about it, but a friction (and not just a non-constant spring.. needs to be a fairly consistent frictional force) device makes for better human interface.



EDIT: Apparently Tomas and I were typing the same thing :P

Great info going on here. Thanks Thomas for all the work and insight. I got caught up in a similar thread in the off topic section and missed this one. I too can remember the Audi deal, even the Pinto deal. :lalala:

I think a lot of the problem may not be so much crappy parts, but more like subcontracting parts out of house and quality control missing an issue. Especially in both the manufacture of that part, and Toyota for not checking their work. If a simple shim is the fix, then clearly who ever made this part and was responsible for the QC and or testing dropped the ball big time.

I would hate to think CTS knew of this problem, possibly even "forgot" this parts installation. I am not going to say the word company sabotage, but the timing of breaking the legs of the worlds biggest car manufacture sure is right on.

I would like to see the media focus a little more on CTS then Toyota right now, but I don't think that will happen.

Well CTS was building the pedal according to Toyota's design. Toyota was looking to penny pinch and they went after the pedal. You can clearly see how much more beefier the Denso unit is from the pix I posted earlier. I would be persuaded to believe it was inferior American manufacturing if the pedal was the exact same design as the Denso unit.

Toyota provides the specifications the assembly needs to meet, the manufacturer designs the details of the assembly to meet the specs and to match their manufacturing processes.

The goal of the assembly sub-contractor is to make the assembly as inexpensively as possible and still meet the spec in order to secure the contract (low bid) and maximize profit.

If you follow any of the links that have been provided to the CTS site, with a minimum of poking around you will find that they do their own design to meet the car manufactures specs, and that they are proud of their design expertise.

This does not eliminate Toyota's responsibility for final approval of the CTS design, nor for the QC part of the job, making certain that the devices made by CTS meet Toyota quality standards. Toyota need to take more control of the QC and depend less on what CTS claims.

Good point. The thing is how often or even at all, does the subcontracting company need to submit changes in the part contracted to build? Example: A worker determines the piece (they now put in to remedy the problem) was not necessary for what ever reason. The company agrees in house to omit that piece and cuts it manufacturing and assembly costs in doing so. Are they required or would they even bother telling Toyota of the change?

Or what if it was the working on something and running out of materials situation. We've all been there and what do you do? You start improvising. I can only imagine the same thing only worse when you have 100 plus workers sitting around with no materials to complete a job.

It just appears very strange how quick they new exactly what was needed to make the pedal function. A simple piece of metal the size of a wheel weight. Not much to anyone but a company who could increase profits by eliminating it.

Just thinking out loud here, no conspiracy theories...:crazy:

I'm sure they will from now forward. Tomas

Tomas's post 53 is right on.
They are called Source Control drawings. Toyota would produce a drawing showing the size & space the pedal fits into and probably has a sperate spec describing how it functions and the electrical outputs required and how long it is supposed to last... and perhaps even the smell !!! Have to have that new car smell!

CTS then would come up with the design and it can be completely different to the Denso pedal except that it would bolt right in place and have the same electrical output. Those would be the interface dimensions.

I have an 09Xb with the Denso pedal. I'm interested to know what the insides look like, but not enough to take it apart... need to surf, someone has probably done that somewhere.

I'm tired of designing also. It's more of sweating the details that others in more glorious positions choose not to deal with. They are too busy money juggling to sweat the small (but ever so important) stuff. 5 years to go, and counting.
Rich

Well that surfing didn't take long, found this site for the 2 pedals
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-pedals/#more-343512

They focused on friction in the bearings, but that isn't it.
The Denso pedal appears to have a sandwich type of friction device. This is better than the leading arm V grooves in the CTS design.

The sandwich device will give the same friction wheather you are pressing down or releasing. With no self jamming tendancy.

I feel better now

Although I do like the design on my motorbikes, which have 2 cables. One to pull the throttle plates open and the other to pull them closed. Can't get more failsafe than that - but hard to do on a foot pedal.

Rich, my post 53 is just a restatement of my post 19 http://scionlife.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3448854&postcount=19 for those who missed it there. :)

Thanks for the link to the TTAC article. Even though they were focusing on the totally wrong area of the assembly for the problem, the views of the interiors of the Denso and CTS units explained a lot. I would love to be able to see 'em / handle 'em in person, but that would be just for my own curiosity.

Consumers Are Shockingly Uninterested In Buying A Toyota Right Now

http://consumerist.com/2010/02/consumers-are-shockingly-uninterested-in-buying-a-toyota-right-now.html

Toyota's new logo?

http://i.imgur.com/UyY5v.png

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs197.snc3/20452_733597682509_30800571_40811104_1506191_n.jpg

In all seriousness though this could really hurt the company with the additional Prius recall and possible Corolla recall.

http://tijil.org/toyota_crash_640.jpg

Those are just wrong..... lol

Great info going on here. Thanks Thomas for all the work and insight. I got caught up in a similar thread in the off topic section and missed this one. I too can remember the Audi deal, even the Pinto deal. :lalala:
me too and the Fiero recall

I loved the whole Pinto thing. I had a friend that rode around in his Pinto wagon with flamable and explosive haz-mat placards in the rear window. :rofl:

(When I worked at Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ, one of the other researchers I worked with drove an old Pinto hatch as his 'daily-drive-clunker' and we used to kid him unmercifully about his "Ford Fireball." One day it was smacked pretty hard while it was in the parking lot by a gal backing out who got the gas and brake confused. We got to watch it burn from his office... The fire department had a heck of a time putting it out, and it seriously damaged three other cars.)

Toyota is not looking good in these hearings sadly and the same for NHTSA they dropped the ball

I worry about Lentz - he's telling the truth, laying things out the way they are - which does not necessarily match up with the "official" Toyota line from Japan (Japan: "There are no software problems" Jim: "There may be software problems" Japan: "These fixes fix all the problems" Jim: "These fixes may not fix all the problems").

Jim is a good guy, and he is giving honest answers. He's probably going to be eaten alive. (Jim's the original top dog at Scion.)

this has been disturbing... I have come to find out a brand which I have owned and supported for many years...going back to my supercharged MR2 is acting no better than the deceitful American brands I left behind
i watched all of the hearings live in my office

Yeah. The image projected by Mr. Toyoda is not good. Jim Lentz at least seemed to care, and to give honest answers, yesterday.

I'm seeing the international press asking if Toyota will survive this mess as one of the premier auto companies in the world, of if this will so far tarnish their image that they may never recover fully.

I'm disappointed.

some FYI this topic hits home with me because I had my 1990 Thunderbird SC run away from one and I had to shut the car off....that was a lot faster and more powerful car than these..they then put a brake over ride in that car when starting
http://www.autosafety.org/srr/SAFORD.pdf
so I have experienced what people have gone though and a company trying to deny they have a problem
No I did not have pedal confusion BTW

(I've had jamming accelerator and runaway unintended acceleration on two vehicles over the years, both were problems the manufacturer (Chrysler) recognized and fixed. One was a mechanical binding problem, one was a factory wiring problem that caused the ECU to randomly select 6000 RPM as the idle speed whenever it wanted.)

I'm really getting annoyed by the way these politicians are asking questions. Especially the Dems from the states where the UAW have them on the payroll. Seems like quite a conflict of interest to me. Especially considering how WE own part of GM.
I'm following this closely on FOX News and it's turning into a circus.

turn off Fox News and watch it live and unbiased....the 2 NHTSA former employees Toyota hired was not a conflict? Jeff just be glad the XB 1 is not drive by wire

(I've had jamming accelerator and runaway unintended acceleration on two vehicles over the years, both were problems the manufacturer (Chrysler) recognized and fixed. One was a mechanical binding problem, one was a factory wiring problem that caused the ECU to randomly select 6000 RPM as the idle speed whenever it wanted.)
scary as hell when you have over 300lbs of torque wide open.. it happened to me on an exit ramp coming out of a toll both on the GSP

Jeff just be glad the XB 1 is not drive by wireThe drive by wire doesn't bother me as long as there is still a cable operated shifter for finding neutral and the motor shuts off with the key or start button.:tap:

Jeff, the "start button" arrangement is not a direct control - it only tells the ECU software that you'd like to shut off the engine - the ECU decides if it will let you... If it is already acting up, I don't want it to have ANY voice in that decision.

So basically, there is no direct way to kill the engine when you have a start button? If so that will be a problem for Toyota. Along with NOT being able to shift to neutral.

Yup. One of the vehicles being testified about was a Lexus with electronic throttle control, electronic shifting, and electronic control of engine on/off via a start button.

When it allegedly went wacky due to an electrical malfunction, it appeared to think it was being told to accelerate and would NOT allow shifting out of gear until the throttle was released, and would not allow the engine to be shut down until if speed was above 33 MPH.

At that point there is nothing one can do other than hang on and hope the brakes will slow the car enough to be survivable (and if you happen to have a hybrid, it has veto power over the brakes, too).

http://tijil.org/cantdo.wav

With my Scion the throttle, transmission, steering, and brake linkages are all mechanical, and the ignition switch is a mechanical switch that actually controls power.

I'm pleased with that.

I have never had an issue with the way the dbw works in my tC.. other than pedal feel is not there like with a cable setup. However, coming from an electronics engineering background, I can say I find the whole idea of dbw completely stupid on a car. There is not near enough reward for the complexity it adds IMO. And keep in mind, this is a guy who LOVES electronic control systems.

On the flip side, there is no reason they should not be 100% safe. I have worked on entire production facilities being run by a handful of processors. And any time you fly, you are seeing control systems that are upwards of 30+ years old still flying. But... those are maintained a bit better than what someones car will be.

And this thing is turning into a complete show of political agendas. Toyota did not handle this correctly and should pay for that mistake, but we can all name off plenty of issues with other manufacturers (including the craptactular blunders in Mercedes brake by wires systems, randomly burning fords, too many chrysler issues to mention, etc) that the UAW butt kissers didnt take a direct attack on ;)

In the end, while I love to support american made products, Toyota has done more to improve the auto industry, the price for a good vehicle and its quality than most other brands. It is unfortunate that some BAD decisions and poor handling of them has to occur. But it is what it is.

Jeff, the "start button" arrangement is not a direct control - it only tells the ECU software that you'd like to shut off the engine - the ECU decides if it will let you... If it is already acting up, I don't want it to have ANY voice in that decision.
the lady who testified said when the tow truck driver put her car in neutral it started on its own......

the lady who testified said when the tow truck driver put her car in neutral it started on its own......
i agree with engifineer as much as I love computers I believe they DO NOT deserve to be in control of so much of an automobile. and the lady who testified about the car starting on its own, that just shows how this is an electronic/computer issue than JUST a sticking gas pedal! DEFINITELY!

All these sensors, wires, actuators just to activate the throttle when a simple wire and pedal were all that was needed before? People wonder why cars are getting more expensive? They're putting systems in there that are complicating it all. Keep it simple! Toyota has a big problem on its hands and I hope they find what is causing this in the electronics. Sure, a sticking gas pedal or a faulty floor mat would cause issues, but it sure doesn't cause a car NOT to go into neutral and it sure doesn't cause it to start on its own!

I did watch the cspan coverage of the entire hearing instead of just some clip the evening news wants to show you. Basically my take is that Mr. Toyoda really doesn't know what is causing this. I think that they are at a loss for what is truly the root cause. They're saying they are willing to have any and all input into what is causing this, like the professor from SIU that showed the fault. They're willing to meet with him and work together. If Toyota cannot find the problem this could be more devastating to Toyota than Ford had with the rollover Explorers, tires blowing out. I think that with enough tests they will probably find it, and yes I believe it is in the computer/electronics, definitely.

Also, in the coverage one representative captured it all in one statement. He said that so what if they put a brake override system on the car. That still doesn't find the cause of why it did it in the first place.

Steve Wozniak (Apple Co-Founder) has been able to show some problems as well with the electronics, it's about time Toyota returns his calls! From what I've seen he has been trying to contact them for months! Time for Toyota to start LISTENING, instead of ignoring it. If Mr. Toyoda is honestly telling the truth, then it's about time to turn around a company that has been way too arrogant recently. Which is a good thing to turn around!

My manual will always go into neutral when I tell it to :D

As more example on other cars though, I am curious if a similar issue with the Evo will ever surface. I have heard of a handful of complaints of the previous generation Evo's throttle sticking. One of them was local. He was autoxing, lost control, let off the throttle, it stayed wide open. He steered it away from course workers, and shut it down, but not before it went through a ditch and a fence, pretty much causing about $12,000 of un-insurable damage (he was "racing") to the body. This was on a mostly un-altered car other than suspension as far as I know.

Text from my dad (a life long mechanic) the other night:

"Put a cable on it, I bet it will probably work"

:P

http://consumerist.com/2010/03/think-your-recalled-toyota-is-fixed-well-maybe-not.html

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota3-2010mar03,0,2270669.story

*sigh*

Tom

http://consumerist.com/2010/03/think-your-recalled-toyota-is-fixed-well-maybe-not.html

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota3-2010mar03,0,2270669.story

*sigh*

Tom
ouch! yeah i've been agreeing with Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple) that it's a software issue. Another interesting idea is "whiskers" caused by the organic growth of non-leaded solder now used on RoHS (reduction of hazardous substances) in electronics are causing weird electrical shorts down at the microscopic levels. But yeah I think it's in the electronics.

but.. okay so Scion is Toyota we all know that. Why is it that the tC or the new xD or xB not having this issue? We share parts with the camry (tC and xB-new) like the engine. Why would the ECU not be the same? I know I don't have the answers but it's an interesting question of why we're not affected like that. Are there tC owners out there or xB-new that are experiencing this? post it up here!

First I would note that the Scions are ALL built in Japan and most of the problems appear to be in vehicles NOT built in Japan.

Second I would note that the Scions tend to be lower-end vehicles and have simpler controls/software/systems, and because of this may not have the same inherent problem sources even though some parts are shared.

Bottom line, though, is I do not know, but neither does anyone else at this point.

(For myself I'm enjoying my Japanese built mostly mechanical xB Classic. It's an honest little box without the problems of some newer, more complex vehicles.)

^^ thanks tomas! Yeah you're right our cars are somewhat "basic" compared to all the "extras" and gee-whiz features. Our ECU's just do the basics, nothing more like adaptive cruise or other things. something you made me think about.

and engineering has an acronym KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid. lol and it's true, let's keep this basic and just do that well.

More and different info:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_hi_te/us_toyota_black_boxes/

(And yes, even my original xB has a data recorder - it's mentioned briefly in the Owners Manual.)

What about Japanese made Toyotas in Japan?

New York Times Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/06/business/global/06toyota.html

This just seems to get worse for them.... and they seem to be burying themselves, they are ruining what took years to build

Adding a bit of fuel to the anti-Toyota fire, six Toyota manufacturing employees now say they wrote a memo to company executives in 2006 voicing concerns about vehicle safety and long-term impact on the company, only to be completely ignored.

"We are concerned about the processes which are essential for producing safe cars, but that ultimately may be ignored, with production continued in the name of competition," they stated in the letter, referring to changes the car company had made to simultaneously cut overhead while increasing output.

In the five years leading up to the drafting of this memo, Toyota had already recalled over 5 million cars worldwide and these men felt that, if the company continued down that path, it could "become a great problem that involves the company's survival."

But rather than rankle any feathers with their higher-ups, the memo merely vanished and was never spoken of again.

"They completely ignored us," says 62-year-old assembly line worker Tadao Wakatsuki. "That's the Toyota way."

Toyota wouldn't confirm ever receiving the memo or comment on it, saying only, "Communication is the backbone of our labor-management relations."

If so, then maybe they should listen to Watasuki, founder of the All Toyota Labor Union, who is now speaking to the press.

"We used to test every one of our cars for safety and quality," he told reporters. "Now we do maybe 60%. The old 100% is a thing of the past."

Speaking about the decision to write the memo, he recalls, "Our responsibility as a labor union was to point out these problems that Toyota should have known about. People were overworked; some were committing suicide... Of course, Toyota did nothing, but looking back we see how important this was. We just told them what we saw."

The revelation of the memo and Toyota's alleged ignorance of it has gotten the attention of Congressman Ed Townes, chair of the House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, which questioned Toyota president Akio Toyoda in February.

"The Toyota employees’ safety memo now seems strikingly prescient," wrote Townes in a not-very-pleased letter to Mr. Toyoda this morning. "If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety."

Townes has requested that Toyota deliver a copy of the 2006 memo to the Committee before noon on Wednesday.

More: Toyota workers raised safety concerns with bosses in 2006 memo (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-canaries8-2010mar08,0,3352893,full.story) (L.A. Times)

EL CAJON, Calif. — A Toyota Prius that sped out of control on a California freeway was towed to a dealership Tuesday while federal and company inspectors converged on the car to determine whether a stuck gas pedal was to blame. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sent two investigators to examine the car after Monday's incident, said Olivia Alair, a spokeswoman for the Department of Transportation, which oversees NHTSA. Toyota Motor Corp. spokesman Brian Lyons said the automaker is sending three of its own technicians to investigate.

I can understand the arguments on both sides here...
DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp has asked a Michigan appeals court to intervene to keep its top two U.S. executives from being grilled by lawyers for the family of a woman killed while driving a Camry in 2008.

The appeal was filed late Monday after a Flint, Michigan area judge denied a motion to keep the two executives, Toyota Motor North America President Yoshi Inaba and Jim Lentz, head of U.S. sales for Toyota, from being questioned by lawyers for the family of Guadalupe Alberto.
...
Toyota said the two need not appear for depositions that had been scheduled for Thursday and Friday and that the case should be litigated without the depositions.

Making Inaba and Lentz answer questions of opposing counsel before the trial "would be unduly burdensome, harassing and would subject these apex level employees to deposition in nearly every product liability case filed against (Toyota Motor Sales USA)," the company's attorneys said in a filing with the Michigan appeals court.

The two men would not offer any unique information that cannot be given by other Toyota officials, the appeal documents said.

...and this should make everyone getting their Toyota's repaired under the assorted recalls fee really good:
Toyota was asked about the more than 80 reported cases of runaway acceleration in vehicles that have already been recalled and supposedly fixed. A company official said that Toyota was aware of those reports and had been able to verify only a few of them. Among those that Toyota had been able to track down, the company believes the recurring runaway acceleration was caused by improperly performed recall repairs.

This does not look like a good year for Toyota. :(

Complaints not making it up the chain is a VERY unfortunate problem in large organizations. Not good, but not uncommon either. I worked on a project at Goddard Space Flight center in 2003, which included trips to a lot of the other space centers, attending the pre-press release presentation from Gehman regarding the results of the Columbia disaster, etc. And even with the college campus like-everything is open to everyone that is on site environment at NASA, the same issues came into play.

Challenger - Oring issues were communicated more than once, but never made it to the correct people.

Columbia - Issues with the foam (and I saw the test videos.. there is no question that the foam could cause a crack in the wing... it caused one the size of a bowling ball in their test) hitting the leading edge had been communicated up. That never made it fully to the people it should because "it has always happened that way".

Both cases point towards a bottleneck in the communication structure, where a small number of people (even 1 person in some instances) is ultimately the factor in whether a concern gets the full attention it should. That person makes a mistake, the issues never make it up the chain. I see this as probably the case here. People like to jump to the "they are covering it up" conspiracy theories, but it is more likely is a combination of the wrong people in charge of some decisions and too vertical of an information structure. Still not acceptable, but a different take than what some like to think.

Absolutely true, Dave. There are always those "choke points" in the vertical structure where some person or group does not want to let those above them that there is a possible problem in their part of the enterprise, or they possibly to fail to understand or appreciate the potential seriousness of a seemingly "small" problem.

I was lucky enough to work in a large company that had a president who understood that and did everything he could think of to prevent it. Not only did he have an "open door" policy, and insist all his officers and managers also have one, he also insisted on "MBWA" so that his managers were directly exposed on a regular basis to what was happening at the lowest levels of the company.

The company president also had a small group of folks he really trusted that he used as mobile troubleshooters.

It was a sad day when he eventually retired and all that went away. :(

agreed but depositions are standard procedure and part of discovery and common in the legal proceedings before trial

Congressional probes, mushrooming lawsuits and a federal probe into reporting of acceleration defects have raised the risk of criminal charges for Toyota.

The legal stakes are high for Toyota, because it is the first automaker embroiled in major safety issues since tough new criminal penalties became law after 2000's rollover recalls involving Ford Explorers and Firestone tires. The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation (TREAD) Act for the first time made individuals who intentionally mislead federal regulators about safety defects subject to possible criminal fines and/or prison.

More... http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-03-11-toyotacriminal11_ST_N.htm

Los Angeles, California (CNN ) -- When former in-house defense attorney Dimitrios Biller resigned from his top post at Toyota, he walked out with something potentially more valuable than his nearly $4 million severance package.

He took some 6,000 internal documents, including memos and e-mails potentially damaging to his former employer.

"Not potentially, they are. They are very damaging," Biller said.

Biller, now entangled in litigation with the auto giant, defended the company in product liability and negligence cases from 2003 to 2007. He says he quit because of what he alleges were "criminal acts" by Toyota -- specifically, withholding information the company was legally required to turn over to plaintiffs' lawyers during litigation.

More... http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/10/toyota.whistleblower/

Toyota Motor Corp. turned over to Congress today a 3 1/2 -year-old memo written by employees in Japan raising questions about the company's safety record.

The Oct. 3, 2006, memo was requested by Rep. Ed Towns, D-N.Y., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee after it was first published by the Los Angeles Times.

"If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota's corporate priorities and its commitment to safety," Towns wrote Monday to Toyota's North American chief Yoshimi Inaba, giving them a noon deadline today to turn over the memo.

More... http://www.detnews.com/article/20100310/AUTO01/3100423/1148/auto01/Memo+shows+Toyota+employees+in+Japan+raised+concerns

^^ wow it's like toyota wants to bury itself even more. thanks for the info/links, Tomas!

A Westchester police official yesterday warned Toyota to back off and let investigators examine a Prius that inexplicably accelerated down a driveway, across a road and into a stone wall.

"Realistically, we have to figure this is a matter of national safety," said Capt. Anthony Marraccini, acting police chief of Harrison.

He denied Toyota's request to take possession of the 2005 Prius involved in Tuesday's harrowing accident.

"If there's a federal agency that I believe better equipped than we are, I'm happy to turn it over," Marraccini said.

More... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/toyota_woes_hitting_home_zAVqbCk2V5VZkg09IfUb2N

I heard about this form my parents as they live close by... wait until Andrew Coumo gets a hold of Toyota uh oh....

Did Bankrupt Runaway Prius Driver Fake "Unintended Acceleration?"
James Sikes, the San Diego runaway Toyota Prius driver, filed for bankruptcy in 2008 and now has over $700,000 in debt. According to one anonymous tipster, we're also told he hasn't been making payments on his Prius.

More... http://jalopnik.com/5491101/

Additional... http://priuschat.com/news/why-out-control-prius-driver-is-full-it

seems like he was current..bankruptcy doesn't mean not paying..he also said he does not plan on suing

Debatable on being current, unknown on not suing. We will eventually see how it all plays out. I'm just not quite ready to accept the story is, uh, "correct" as we have heard it... :)

he emailed them stated he was not suing.... regardless...Toyota has already proven to be deceptive and possibly lying we have not proven this person to be that....he did file bankruptcy which in no way speaks to moral character

Doesn't speak to morals but could relate to motive. Just trying to keep an open mind on the subject and not just accepting everything I hear as being absolute truth.

The other side of your statement would be to say that just because it appears that Toyota has been deceptive on some things doesn't mean it is on all things, and that alleged deception does not automatically make every negative story about anything "Toyota" true.

(Things like a professor in the Midwest rewiring a Toyota so that he can make it accelerate by connecting wires together without leaving a trouble code. Heck, I could do that with a Boeing aircraft - it proves nothing. I've never had the problem of a device spontaneously rewiring itself and connecting wires that are nowhere near each other.)

Toyota suffers from a rush to judgment
Toyota is in a world of hurt. Analysts estimate the automaker's contingent liabilities top $5 billion. It will be 15 years before the class-action hounds let go.

It is easy to criticize Toyota's handling of sudden acceleration complaints, but no issue this complex is one-sided. What Toyota has done wrong -- and the wrong others have done to it -- bear study.

More... http://detnews.com/article/20100312/OPINION01/3120338/Toyota-suffers-from-a-rush-to-judgment

The latest about why that San Diego case may be falling apart:

* His Prius was equipped with a brake override system. It would have curtailed the acceleration if he pressed the accelerator and brake in a way that indicated he was confused or panicked.
* He was deeply in debt and has retained a law firm, even though so far he says doesn't plan to sue Toyota.
* His answer on why he didn't shift the car in neutral to stop the acceleration raised more questions. He told Carty, I was afraid that would "flip the car." He also says, "I've since found out that's not possible, but I had no idea," Sikes says. "Hopefully, I helped save five to 10 lives because people are now finding out" how to put a moving Prius into neutral.

More... http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/03/runaway-prius-case-could-become-toyotas-crisis-turning-point/1

(Well worth reading the entire article.)

Has Toyota Coverage Driven Public a Bit Crazy?
If you do not own a Toyota, the recall should be of little personal interest to you. The chances that your vehicle will be hit by a Toyota speeding out of control because of a stuck gas pedal are about the same as being hit by lightning.

By contrast, Evans said, a driver talking on a cell phone was far more likely to threaten a person's life. As he put it, "If we spend all our time focusing on relatively unimportant safety factors like sticky gas pedals, we won't have the energy left to focus on the No. 1 factor. Traffic safety is overwhelmingly about drivers, not vehicles."
====
Then came Robert Wright... Driving one of these suspect Toyotas raises your chances of dying in a car crash over the next two years from .01907 percent (that's 19 one-thousandths of 1 percent, when rounded off) to .01935 percent (also 19 one-thousandths of 1 percent). I can live with those odds. ... But lots of Americans seem to disagree with me. Why?
====
Famed lawyer Theodore H. Frank... Fifty-odd deaths over 10 years and millions of Toyotas is a drop in the bucket compared to the general risk of being on the road at all. It's entirely possible that more people will be killed driving to the dealer for the recall than lives will be saved from going through the safety theater demanded by the Department of Transportation.
====
"Essentially, right now, people can crash their Toyota and get away scot-free," wrote a blogger under the pseudonym u235. "It's like a 'Crash one get one free' kind of deal. Until Toyota manages to put to rest the cloud of suspicion over their electronics, this will go on indefinitely (or until people run out of cars to crash)."

More... http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/has-toyota-gotten-a-bum-steer-from-misguided-public/19395830

Toyota Hybrid Horror Hoax
Exploring an overblown media frenzy.
"On the very day Toyota was making a high-profile defense of its cars, one of them was speeding out of control," said CBS News--and a vast number of other media outlets worldwide. The driver of a 2008 Toyota Prius, James Sikes, called 911 to say his accelerator was stuck, he was zooming faster than 90 miles per hour and absolutely couldn't slow down.

It got far more dramatic, though. The California Highway Patrol responded and "To get the runaway car to stop, they actually had to put their patrol car in front of the Prius and step on the brakes." During over 20 harrowing minutes, according to NBC's report, Sikes "did everything he could to try to slow down that Prius." Others said, "Radio traffic indicated the driver was unable to turn off the engine or shift the car into neutral."

In fact, almost none of this was true.

More... http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html?boxes=financechannelforbes

The woman driving a Toyota Prius
believed to have accelerated out of control into a
stone wall was bringing the car to a Toyota
dealership for maintenance when the accident
occurred, police said.

The car did not have any previous trouble, but the
owner wanted to have it checked because of all the
trouble Toyota has been facing nationally over stuck
gas pedals, Harrison's acting police Chief Anthony
Marraccini said.
...
Marraccini said his department sought help from
Toyota in accessing information in the car's black
box that would reveal what was going on with the
car just before the crash. The company declined,
and Marraccini said police would try to obtain a
federal subpoena to get the information.

More... http://www.lohud.com/fdcp/?1268424878992

Quote:
The woman driving a Toyota Prius
believed to have accelerated out of control into a
stone wall was bringing the car to a Toyota
dealership for maintenance when the accident
occurred, police said.

The car did not have any previous trouble, but the
owner wanted to have it checked because of all the
trouble Toyota has been facing nationally over stuck
gas pedals, Harrison's acting police Chief Anthony
Marraccini said.
...
Marraccini said his department sought help from
Toyota in accessing information in the car's black
box that would reveal what was going on with the
car just before the crash. The company declined,
and Marraccini said police would try to obtain a
federal subpoena to get the information. More... http://www.lohud.com/fdcp/?1268424878992
herein lies the deception other automakers share this info... I would have thought they would have recruited all the help they could get... this is dissapointing... if I was them I would be afraid of Andrew Coumo
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20103100375

Before the "fixed vehicles" leave the dealership they should include directions mounted on the sun visors on how to shift the vehicles into neutral and turn off the engines.

LOL why Jeff are Toyota's special?... my mother once told a cop she ran a red light because it was the first time driving this rental car car... he asked is the brake in a different position?

California DA files consumer protection suit against Toyota
...intends to prove the following in the litigation: Despite knowledge of the defects, Toyota continues to sell and lease its cars and trucks while knowingly concealing and suppressing information about the defects from consumers. Since 2001, Toyota is accused of falsely representing to the public that Toyota-manufactured vehicles are safe and reliable. Toyota continues to conceal from consumers that their vehicles cause sudden, uncontrollable acceleration when drivers are not touching the accelerator and attempt to use their brakes.

More... http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2010/03/california-da-files-consumer-protection.php

Toyota tells Congress it never disclosed internal records
Toyota Motor Corp. has never produced a confidential set of documents in any court case or to government regulators, the company told Congress today.

The existence of the documents, called the Books of Knowledge, was a closely guarded secret within Toyota, a former Toyota attorney has claimed.

Toyota lawyer Theodore Hester told a congressional committee in an eight-page letter today that the automaker has settled lawsuits before it was required to turn over information from the highly sensitive cache of internal company records.
...
The committee said it has evidence that Toyota entered into multimillion dollar settlements in civil cases when it feared a plaintiff's lawyer was getting close to discovering the existence of the Books of Knowledge.

More... http://www.detnews.com/article/20100312/AUTO01/3120437/1361/Toyota-tells-Congress-it-never-disclosed-internal-records

Toyota disputes allegations that it withheld evidence
Last month, the committee subpoenaed some 6,000 documents from the former Toyota attorney, Dimitrios Biller, as part of its investigation into the automaker's handling of safety recalls and sudden acceleration problems.
...
Biller said he did not believe that Toyota's letter fully addressed his concerns, saying it was "filled with misleading statements." A lawsuit he filed against Toyota last year in California is currently in arbitration.

Meanwhile, the fate of the 6,000 documents remains uncertain. Toyota has succeeded in keeping them sealed by court order, but Congress briefly released four of the documents last month.

More... http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-biller13-2010mar13,0,4676139.story

Investigation Raises Questions on Prius Incident
A federal safety investigation of the Toyota Prius that was involved in a dramatic incident on a California highway last week found a particular pattern of wear on the car's brakes that raises questions about the driver's version of the event, three people familiar with the investigation said.

On Monday James Sikes, 61 years old, called 911 and told the operator his blue 2008 Toyota Prius had sped up to more than 90 miles per hour on its own on Interstate 8 near San Diego. He eventually brought the vehicle to a stop after a California Highway patrolman pulled alongside Mr. Sikes and offered help.

During and after the incident, Mr. Sikes said he was using heavy pressure on his brake pedal at high speeds.

But the investigation of the vehicle, carried out jointly by safety officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota engineers, didn't find signs the brakes had been applied at full force at high speeds over a sustained period of time, the three people familiar with the investigation said.

The brakes were discolored and showed wear, but the pattern of friction suggested the driver had intermittently applied moderate pressure on the brakes, these people said, adding the investigation didn't find indicators of the heavy pressure described by Mr. Sikes.

More... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704734304575120001542947616.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Haven't found that software glitch, Toyota? Keep trying
Toyota's chief engineer testified to Congress that the company has done extensive testing on its cars' electronics and believes they are not the cause of the sudden acceleration.

Having owned a Toyota myself, I have always been a fan of what I perceived to be the automaker's high standards for quality. I also happen to have more than three decades of experience designing, building and researching reliable computer systems, many of which are embedded inside other devices. Based on this experience, I find it very difficult to accept the statements from Toyota's chief engineer. And the implications extend beyond Toyota, to all other companies that rely on software for their product safety.

As anyone with experience in embedded systems will tell you, there are nasty software bugs that can be extremely difficult to reproduce in a laboratory test environment. To illustrate, I'd like to describe one such bug we encountered at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory while developing the flight software for NASA's Mars Pathfinder spacecraft.

More... http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinionla/la-oew-cummings12-2010mar12,0,2595172.story

LOL why Jeff are Toyota's special?... my mother once told a cop she ran a red light because it was the first time driving this rental car car... he asked is the brake in a different position?:rofl: but why are people having such issues shutting these things down before they crash?
I now understand some of them can't be shut down because everything is electronic but the others have no excuse.

:rofl: but why are people having such issues shutting these things down before they crash?
I now understand some of them can't be shut down because everything is electronic but the others have no excuse.

(Not really off topic - it's about some drivers and driver error.)

Whenever anyone asks a question like that I'm reminded of my first wife and her MG.

One afternoon she was taking a different route than she normally did and came to a "Y" in the road. The "Y" was defined by a triangular center island with a large yellow sign on it with a splitting arrow showing to go one side or the other.

She couldn't make up her mind and kept the accelerator down and plowed straight ahead, taking out the front suspension with the island and the sign with the front of the car.

Why? I just don't know.

(She also backed her MG under my '55 Chevy, flipped a Volvo off the freeway, and put the door of another Volvo through the garage wall by opening it to back out. All of these were "decision errors.")

Some drivers just shouldn't be... :nails:

Well put Tomas! :bow:

More... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704734304575120001542947616.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
doesn't ABS pulse the breaks? SO if he slammed on the brakes it does not mean constant pressure would have nee applied

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/anti-lock-brake.htm
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/absbrakes.html

ABS only pulses the brakes if a wheel stops rolling while others still are - and usually only the one that's locking up gets pulsed.

That means since he was allegedly not seeing any effect at all from the brakes, the ABS wouldn't be pulsing them since they wouldn't be locking up...

I thought the prius had an electric pump system wonder if that went haywire...

I think the guys stunt backfired on him.

I think the guys stunt backfired on him.
shame of it all that if it all is may tarnish how screwed up their cars right now....it still will not fix their rep infortunately

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35936650/ns/business-autos
WASHINGTON - Computer data from a Toyota Prius that crashed in suburban New York City show that at the time of the accident the throttle was open and the driver was not applying the brakes, U.S. safety (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35936650/ns/business-autos#) officials said Thursday. The disclosure prompted an angry response from the police captain investigating the cause of the accident. He said his probe was not over and driver error had not been established.
"For any agency to release data and to draw conclusions without consulting with the law enforcement agency that brought this to light could be self-serving," said Capt. Anthony Marraccini of the Harrison, N.Y., force.

Rational, well done and simple explanation of the braking problem and brake override.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZNR9O3xZM

Worth watching.

For those who do not understand why power braking is lost for brake reapplication with WOT (Wide Open Throttle), the power brakes depend on the vacuum created in the intake manifold, and there is a "vacuum tank" that holds that vacuum for use by the power brakes.

With WOT, there is no vacuum in the intake manifold, so once the vacuum in the tank is use by the first brake application there is little left, and no way for it to be replenished.

You only get ONE brake application in a WOT condition - take your foot off for even a split second, and you have no brakes when you try again..

Tom

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36181616/ns/business-autos

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36391413/ns/business-autos/

Armed with reports of accidents for which they've already paid claims, State Farm insurance has asked Toyota to repay them for any crashes related to unintended acceleration by its vehicles.

Other companies are expected to follow and demands for repayment of claims — called "subrogation" in the insurance business — could end up costing Toyota from $20 million to $30 million, says Mark Bunim, an attorney with Closed Case, a mediation firm. Customers could see a bonus from any repayment: Insurance deductibles they paid could be refunded.
More...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-04-12-toyotainsurance12_ST_N.htm

i'm waiting for people to start playing the dumb game of making claims like that to get outta tickets for accidents or speeding when it hadn't actually happened

Lexus Stops Selling S.U.V. That Was Called Unsafe

About 12 hours after Consumer Reports magazine warned consumers that the 2010 Lexus GX 460 sport utility had a dangerous handling problem, the automaker said late Tuesday that would temporarily stop selling the S.U.V.
...
In response, Mark Templin, the group vice president and general manager, said in a statement that Lexus had “asked our dealers to temporarily suspend sales of the 2010 GX 460.”

Mr. Templin said that the carmaker was taking the situation “very seriously” and was determined to identify and correct the issue Consumer Reports identified.”

“For any customer who has purchased a 2010 GX 460 and is concerned about driving their vehicle,” he said, “we will provide a loaner car until a remedy is available.”

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/14auto.html?src=busln

and the hits keep coming....ouch like the fall of the Roman Empire