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Toyota Halts U.S. Sale, Output of 8 Models

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Old 01-27-2010, 01:10 AM
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Default Toyota Halts U.S. Sale, Output of 8 Models

Toyota Halts U.S. Sale, Output of 8 Models as Image ‘Tarnished’

January 26, 2010, 08:29 PM EST
By Alan Ohnsman

Jan. 27 (Bloomberg)
-- Toyota Motor Corp., struggling to stem widening quality concerns, will suspend production and U.S. sales of eight models that use a component that triggered a recall of 2.3 million vehicles.

Dealers will temporarily stop selling RAV4, Highlander and Sequoia sport-utility vehicles, Corolla, Camry, Avalon and Matrix cars and Tundra pickups, Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, said in a statement yesterday. Assembly lines at five North American plants will be idled the week starting Feb. 1. Mike Goss, a company spokesman, said he couldn’t immediately say how many units of production would be lost.

“Toyota had a bulletproof reputation for quality, and now it’s been tarnished,” said Jim Hossack, an industry analyst at AutoPacific Inc. in Fountain Valley, California. “It’s a dramatic move, and an expensive move.”

Toyota’s Jan. 21 announcement that it will recall more vehicles in the U.S. and Canada raises pressure on President Akio Toyoda to restore the company’s reputation. The carmaker’s U.S. sales fell 20 percent last year while those of South Korean rival Hyundai Motor Co., which is catching up with the Japanese carmaker in U.S. quality surveys, gained 8.3 percent.

Toyota declined as much as 3.4 percent to 3,740 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange and traded at 3,780 yen as of 9:54 a.m. local time. Honda Motor Co., Japan’s second-biggest carmaker, gained 0.2 percent while Hyundai rose 2.3 percent in Seoul. Japan’s Nikkei 225 Stock Average advanced 0.2 percent.

Record Recall

Toyota said last week it would recall vehicles in the U.S. and Canada because of a potential flaw in parts made by CTS Corp. that could, “in rare instances, mechanically stick in a depressed position or return slowly to the idle position.”

In November, Toyota recalled a record 4.3 million vehicles to reshape accelerator pedals to prevent them from getting stuck by driver-side floor mats. About 1.7 million vehicles are affected by both recalls.

Halting sales and production of some of Toyota’s best- selling U.S. models may mean hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue, said AutoPacific’s Hossack, a former engineer for Ford Motor Co., Chrysler Corp. and Mazda Motor Corp.

“Toyota needed to send a clear message they care more about their customers than monthly profits,” said Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive of Edmunds.com, a Web-based auto data service in Santa Monica, California. “The company has to get ahead of the problem.”

Production Halt

The eight models involved accounted for 56 percent of Toyota’s U.S. sales last year, said Koji Endo, managing director of Advanced Research Japan in Tokyo.

“On top of losing sales, stopping production means Toyota still has to deal with costs such as worker wages and depreciation,” Endo said. “The full extent of the damage depends on how long it will take.”

The announcements have fueled concern that rapid expansion by the Toyota City, Japan-based company in the past decade led to production and design glitches, risking its reputation for quality.

“Helping ensure the safety of our customers and restoring confidence in Toyota are very important to our company,” Bob Carter, group vice president of Toyota’s U.S. sales unit, said in the statement. “This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized.”

Toyota has said it’s still investigating the cause of the pedal flaw and hasn’t yet determined a precise fix. Toyota said yesterday it may extend recalls to Europe where models using similar pedal components have been sold.

The company’s U.S. sales headquarters are based in Torrance, California.


--With assistance from Makiko Kitamura in Tokyo. Editors: Terje Langeland, Patrick Harrington.


LINK: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...arnished-.html
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:21 AM
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Wow that's crazy. I hope no one loses their job since they won't be making sales of their most popular vehicles.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:39 AM
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I guess they forgot what Deming taught them
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:13 AM
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So far what I have been able to piece together is it is only throttle assemblies made by CTS, headquartered in Ontario, CA http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/pedal/technology.htm

It does not apply to assemblies made by Denso.

So far the recalls and sales halt apply to 4.3 million Toyotas (and to Pontiac Vibe, but GM has not issued a recall even though they have admitted the Vibe is also affected).

Since the sales halt applies to both new and used vehicles, the dealers will be seriously hurting since it is unlikely that any fix will be approved in less than a month, and REPAIRING 4.3 million vehicles (or even making parts TO repair them) could take a considerable time.

Again, from what I have been able to piece together this applies only to "fly-by-wire" systems, not the mechanical control accelerators.

(As an xB Classic owner, I'm relieved by THAT small detail.)

http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/...s/nr070625.htm
http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/...s/nr081113.htm


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Last edited by Tomas; 01-27-2010 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:19 AM
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4.3 million?? Wow, that's a huge oopsies.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:33 AM
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(As an aside, I had a non-Toyota vehicle with electronic throttle control that from the day it was delivered had throttle control problems: It would select a random number between 600 and 6000 rpm and use that as it's idle RPM. In the first two months I had that vehicle it spent more time in the dealer's shop for the problem than it spent with me. The first time it happened was at a traffic light while we were waiting for it to change. The engine suddenly went from it's normal idle to full throttle.

The dealer replaced numerous parts, eventually replacing EVERYTHING that had anything to do with throttle control except the wiring harness. It finally ended up with a couple of engineering folks flown out from the manufacturer going over the controls inch-by-inch, and they somehow determined that there was a factory error in the engine control wiring harness, and had a complete new harness shipped to the dealer.

Bill, the dealer's head mechanic, who had grown to absolutely HATE that car, got the job of replacing the wiring harness. He did a beautiful job, and that corrected the problem.

After I'd had it back for a couple of weeks with no problems we decided to thank Bill and his crew and got a couple hundred bucks of goodie trays from a local deli, took a day off work and took them to the shop for the shop crew.

When I pulled up to Bill's open garage door in that car mid-morning in the middle of the week, Bill went to the employee break room and refused to come out, so I had a couple of the guys help me carry those big platters of fancy food into the break room and told Bill the car was working fine and this was a thank you for the service crew - we also said it was OK to chase the vulchers from Sales out until Service got everything they wanted. It was theirs.)


Electronic throttle problems are not something new.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:53 AM
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http://dailyme.com/story/20100127000...es-models.html
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:58 AM
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this is definately a blow to toyota
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:23 PM
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Excerpt from an article at www.safetyresearch.net

Last Thursday, Toyota tried to seize the high road, announcing that it was recalling 2.3 million vehicles, encompassing eight models mostly in the 2009 and 2010 model years, for accelerator pedals that might not release when the driver eased off the gas. Some of the recall population involved vehicles not yet sold. The automaker claimed that the problem was a wear issue, and was planning to sell the defective vehicles, as is, with the proviso that new owners who noticed the problem could bring the vehicle to the dealer for the remedy.

This was pointed out, with some disbelief, by several news articles on the recall. What they didn’t mention was Part 573.11: Prohibition on sale or lease of new defective and noncompliant motor vehicles and items of replacement equipment. This section expressly forbids selling a new defective vehicle or component until it is remedied.

Four days later, the fanfare was cut short by yesterday’s announcement that Toyota would stop selling these vehicles until the new pedal assemblies were installed.

Oops.


Click the link above to read the full article.

I have another question...

For years Toyota has told us over and over that the US sold cars made in the US are identical in parts and quality to the US sold cars made by them in Japan.

Here we see a problem with the US made cars using the CTS designed and manufactured throttle control (gas pedal) that is NOT a problem in the Japan made cars that use a unit made by Denso, and the two units are not interchangeable.

If the US made and Japan made vehicles use common parts not interchangeable between the two, how can they be "the same?"

Just wondering.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:44 AM
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Good luck with Toyota recovering from this one.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:59 AM
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I think this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. It's only been a few vehicles that have the problem and most of the ones that do the owners are not smart enough to just turn off the key. It's also sad that it's because of a supplier made part.
Toyota should come out of this fine tho I hope.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:37 PM
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Default 1st Time xD buyer: Toyota Recall question

I have a 2010 Scion xD and the Toyota recall is not good news. from my reading here do I understand correctly that the manufacturer of the part causing the problem is not the same for the same part used in
the 2010 xD?
Dealership told me the xD is made entirely in Japan.

Thanks.

"
Here we see a problem with the US made cars using the CTS designed and manufactured throttle control (gas pedal) that is NOT a problem in the Japan made cars that use a unit made by Denso, and the two units are not interchangeable."
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:27 PM
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Yep, the part was made by a supplier in China and installed at various different Toyota plants. This is what they get for trying to go global instead of keeping stuff made in Japan.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:45 PM
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NO LEXUS, NO SCION, NO JAPANESE PRODUCTION ARE EFFECTED. The US Camry SEs not effected. They use the performance Denso units. Same with Camry Hybrid, not effected. Sienna vans not effected. The Japanese units involved are the Lexus component and while individual parts are not interchangeable with standard CTS the entire pedal assembly is.

Basically the US Corollas, US RAVs, US Highlanders, US Camry, Tundra, US/Canada MATRIX, Avalon are the ones using the CTS parts with questionable spring. The only issue is that this firm is the biggest supplier to most of the automakers( Honda, Nissan to name a few). Toyota out sources CTS pedals to China so this will get bigger for Toyota. Also there was someone in a turbo chat about there 09 Nissan Altima throttle sticking and their wreck. Guess whom makes the pedal?... CTS out of Elkhart,IN sameplace as Toyota.

I must admit I am glad that they just pull every vehicle using the unit instead of figuring out which are the bad batches. Fix them all and no issues down the road.

The press will kill them but you have to admit two to three weeks and its done versus the 4-5 years battle with GM over my truck and Suburban brakes. I paid off the vehicles by the time they finally took care of the problem they knew was there at construction. (kinked/crimped right front brake lines)

By the way, once the NHTSA approves the repair rumor has it that Toyota will be making about 210,000 pieces/day so Toyota should have it handled in about 3 weeks for all the cars sold and at dealer property. My Camry is part of the recall my xB is not and my Sienna is not. I am cool they will get me handled.

As the earlier post asked. Hello Vibe anyone??? Why is Goverment Motors not doing anything?
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:50 PM
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actually all this "us-company bashing" that I see here isn't correct at all. CTS which from what I've been reading made the part all over the world at various manufacturing plants. BUT!! The part was "Designed by Toyota, manufactured by CTS". This design fault lies with the engineers at TOYOTA, not CTS. How convenient it is to blame the "US company" for the faulty parts when Toyota was the one who designed it in the first place.

The Denso part which also, from what I've read, is in all Scions since our cars are made in Japan. The Denso part from what I know was not designed by Toyota but by Denso themselves.

And let's be honest here, looking at both parts, the Denso part is much higher quality, the one from CTS (thanks to Toyota) has been gone over by the "bean counters" and cheapened significantly from the Denso part. This time the cost reduction techniques by Toyota just caught up with them. You can't continue to squeeze and squeeze costs out of a product without affecting quality/longevity. Deming who the Japanese revere as a master of their production techniques even taught that there is a point at which too much cost reduction will result in part failures (too low quality).

But come on people, stop blaming the american company, they only built what Toyota asked them to. Maybe companies should refuse to build something if it's too cheap quality, then again all it seems that is important is the sales figures.

I will also say that if other makers of CTS' products turn out to be faulty, then yeah CTS deserves to go under if it's more than just the Toyota-designed pedal.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:05 PM
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UPDATE: I found two pictures from Edmunds.com when they inspected their cars.

First link is the DENSO part which is similar to the one our Scions have and you can clearly see the four bolts that define the Denso part.
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ser_marked.jpg


The second link is the recalled CTS product, look how much "cheaper" it is wow that's sad. Here it is
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ser_marked.jpg

Last edited by sciontc_mich; 01-28-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:57 PM
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Wow, what a difference in part quality. Nice pics!
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:02 PM
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Once again horrible Chinese quality control has screwed the American consumer.
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:05 PM
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I believe that Toyota provides the overall package size and shape, and the input/output requirements, but does NOT control in any ways manufacturing methods or actual part design.

Basically they (and other vehicle manufacturers) say something like "we need a part that converts pedal position to a specific output, and the output must change in the following prescribed way as pedal position changes. The device must return to it's zero position mechanically and electrically withing sunch and such time, and require a progressive pressure of between x and y to move through it's full range of position and output.

Mounting pads and shape of mounting must be as per figure a, overall size and shape must conform to figure b, electrical connector must be per figure c... etc."


It is up to the supplier to come up with the details of the design that fit the way their machinery works and is cheapest and easiest for them to produce while meeting the quality requirements (number of operations in it's lifetime, etc.). (MTBF on something like this on the standard CTS designs is 3 million operations of the pedal...)

Remember, the manufacturer gets the job pretty much by being the cheapest bid to make a compliant part (low bidder).

Ever since Toyota started the Denso company, they have been a quality producer. Their parts are very good, with tremendous attention to detail.

Check this link, CTS is also proud of the manufacturing designs it makes to meet their clients' (auto manufacturers') needs: http://www.ctscorp.com/automotive/services.htm

Basically, Toyota gives the part manufacturer a set of specification that a part must meet (size, shape, input, output, basic materials, temp range, durability, etc.), the manufacturer generally determines how THEY want to build it to meet those specs.

It appears that the CTS product may not be meeting all the specs they were given...

(In other words it is still very much up in the air if Toyota or CTS is most to blame for the parts of the design that are failing, but it is looking more like CTS since the Denso part designed to the same spec isn't having the problem, whatever it is.)

Still waiting for enough details to make a determination, but it is sounding like maybe it is one too many plastic-on-plastic rubbing contact areas in the CTS design...

Last edited by Tomas; 01-28-2010 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:44 AM
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Toyota letter to dealers:

http://tijil.org/Toyota_letter_to_dealers.pdf

CTS (throttle pedal assembly supplier) is turning out metal shims for poorly designed assemblies to aleviate plastic-to-plastic rubbing until final fix is available.

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-pe...toyota-recall/

http://www.tuneyfish.com/blog/cts-co...e-with-toyota/

Ford halts sales of Chinese built vans with CTS throttle pedals...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aVOYYwFUnD.I (updated link)

Toyota press releases:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/m...er-153203.aspx

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...ry-102572.aspx

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...al-152196.aspx

There are other links to additional info at the above Toyota pages.

CTS says fixes faulty Toyota pedal design

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...pe=marketsNews

Last edited by Tomas; 01-29-2010 at 06:50 PM. Reason: added more links
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