I guess this is a handling component, so I put it here. I didnt' want to respond to the post in the tech pages. Anyway...

I'm trying to decide between the TWM and the TRD short shifters, or if there are any other ones out there. The TRD says it actually changes the pivot point, but that the stick is the same lenght as stock. I know the TWM is shorter, but does it change the pivot point? Which is better? I would think changing the pivot point would be better, but I want a shorter stick as well.

Is there a shifter out that changes the pivot point and has a shorter shaft?
Or has anyone tried both and can tell me which is better, the shorter shaft, or the changed pivot point?

i have the TWM it is much better than stock, i do know that the trd throw is 25% reduction while the TWM is 30%

if you want a shorter shifter go with the TWM you will love it.

But the pivot point is the same, right?

Does anyone know if the TRD changes the pivot point by changing the positon on the stick, or by changing the box, cause I know it comes with the linkage box and everything, while the TWM only comes with the stick, right?

yeah the TWM is just linkage and it works very well, also it is cheaper than the TRD.
no the TWM does not change the pivot point, however it is still shorter throw than TRD

I see. Did you get the knob too? If you did, does it get hot in the summer? And how does it feel in your hands? If not, does the shifter feel as nice without it?

The TWM short shifter DOES move the pivot ball; however, it does reduce the height of the shifter whereas the TRD does not. Some people like the shortened height of the TWM while others have complained it's too much "like a joystick". it's really personal preference. Another option is the B&M shifter which keeps the stock height (like the TRD) but is cheaper i believe.

the b&m drops the height a little no where near as mutch as twm but it does shorten the height. i dont have either one i have just been looking in to them for a while some one posted pics some whre of the the b&m diff.

The TWM does it the "cheap way"

The TRD does it the "right" way, by changing the geometry, not just shortening the height.

the twm does both i think at any rate i like the look of it

The TWM does it the "cheap way"

The TRD does it the "right" way, by changing the geometry, not just shortening the height.

Hey, whatever works. I was deciding between getting the tC or a used 2000 Mr2 Spyder and I fell in love with the short shifter. I think the stock stick on the tC is to long.

Where can the B&M shifter be purchased from? I went to http://www.bmracing.com and the page for the tC just said "test application"

pttuing im not sure the address but they have it b&m needs to update there ____

ptuning.com

I just read the descripton on PTunings site: changed pivot point and lower shift knob. exaclty what I want. Plus it's chaeper. I thinks tha'ts the one I'm gonna get. thanks all.

The TWM does not do it the cheap way, i happen to have it and when compared to the stock shifter the pivot point is changed about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Also it reduces the knob height by about 2.5 inches. So it does both, change pivot point and reduce knob height. The TRD changes pivot point, but also cost more because it comes with the shift knob, an extra 57 dollar value( price taken from mcgeorge) and it also is installed in the basket already which is alot easier to install. Whereas the TWM has you remove all sorts of parts to drop the new lever in.

Jay

me personaly, i would rather have the twm

i have the trd quick shift andreally love it.
it tightens up the otherwise sloppy gearbox. install is a piece of cake. believe me, it was my first such 'mod.' i've never even taken a console off before.
mcgeorge will get you the best price. resold the knob on ebay for $80, woo-ho!
think seriously before lowering the knob height. as it is, it lines your hand up real nicely with your elbow. having your hand slope down on the shifter might get a bit cumbersome. add a few drinks in the cupholders you've got a potentially sticky situation.
go trd.

^ theres no drinking in my car

^ yeah, um you're obviously very rad mr NOS.
maybe mr meaty likes to have beverages in his car.

twm is not cheap it all, it is a very nice product and anyone that has one will say the same thing. I have not herd one bad thing about twm. it offers the shortest throw right now. as far as the height it is a preference thing and you already said you wanted it lower. you can get the twm for about 10.00 more than the b&m and lower you shifter height more and reduce the throw as well.

correction i did some research
B&M on ebay for 116.00 + 9.00 s/h =128.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33736&item=7957574390&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
or
twm for 124.00 w/ free s/h
http://www.twmperformance.com/shortshifters/scionshortshifters/sciontcshortshifters.htm

twm 4.00 cheaper

^ yeah, um you're obviously very rad mr NOS.
maybe mr meaty likes to have beverages in his car.
I didnt' think about the cup holders. One of my biggest difficulties in my '99 Integra was no cupholders! I'd always forget when i offered to pick up fast food! Man, shifting and driveing with one hand, while talking on the phone...jk.

Well, I do want the shaft lower then stock, but the TWM does look REALLY short. Does anyone know the height difference between the TWM vs. B&M vs. TRD?

So far, I'm still leaning towards the B&M. Does anyone even have that?

Well, I read the description of the B&M shifter at trdsparks.com and it said it only drops the stick a half an inch. And I saw the pics on t6c9's car, and it looks pretty much stock height. Still too tall. Maybe I'll just get the TWM shifter and get a taller Sparco shift knob?

is the short shifter all that great of a mod? im not bashing im asking.... ive never driven a car with one installed or known anyone with one.

is the short shifter all that great of a mod? im not bashing im asking.... ive never driven a car with one installed or known anyone with one.
It is really a personall decision. If you've ever driven a ture sports car, and likes it, this mod will make it feel more like that. very quick, short shift engagements. I would imagine alot of people would really not like it.

I am going to install the TWM tomorrow. Does anybody have any words of wisdom?

^ yeah, um you're obviously very rad mr NOS.
maybe mr meaty likes to have beverages in his car.

how about you dont call me mr. nos. and if you seen how easy the cheap cloth on these seats stain you wouldnt want any drinks in your car either

love mine

^ witch one do you have?

TRD knob + TWM shifter = nice ;)

http://zoltiz.com/cars/tc/trdknob/trdknobfar.jpg

TRD knob + TWM shifter = nice ;)

http://zoltiz.com/cars/tc/trdknob/trdknobfar.jpg


thats the look i want :bow:

The TWM does not do it the cheap way, i happen to have it and when compared to the stock shifter the pivot point is changed about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Also it reduces the knob height by about 2.5 inches. So it does both, change pivot point and reduce knob height. The TRD changes pivot point, but also cost more because it comes with the shift knob, an extra 57 dollar value( price taken from mcgeorge) and it also is installed in the basket already which is alot easier to install. Whereas the TWM has you remove all sorts of parts to drop the new lever in.

Jay

Yes it does. All the twm shifter does is change the length of the shift arm, so of course it's going to be both lower and a shorter throw. It will also need more effort.

The TRD costs more becaues it comes with the entire plastic housing as well as the knob and shift arm, and because actual research and development went into it instead of TWM, who rushed out a poorly designed product to make money off suckers eager for an easy mod.

The TWM does not do it the cheap way, i happen to have it and when compared to the stock shifter the pivot point is changed about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Also it reduces the knob height by about 2.5 inches. So it does both, change pivot point and reduce knob height. The TRD changes pivot point, but also cost more because it comes with the shift knob, an extra 57 dollar value( price taken from mcgeorge) and it also is installed in the basket already which is alot easier to install. Whereas the TWM has you remove all sorts of parts to drop the new lever in.

Jay

Yes it does. All the twm shifter does is change the length of the shift arm, so of course it's going to be both lower and a shorter throw. It will also need more effort.

The TRD costs more becaues it comes with the entire plastic housing as well as the knob and shift arm, and because actual research and development went into it instead of TWM, who rushed out a poorly designed product to make money off suckers eager for an easy mod.

now its poorly designed :blah:
TRD cost more b/c of mark up by toyota not b/c of the amount of research that went in to it.
but lets just say they did do more research twm is still a shorter throw so you tell me which one is better?
performance wise the twm.

TWM made the shifter arm shorter AND moved the pivot point reducing the length of the throws. It is harder to install than TRD, but it's not an inferior shifter. If you are willing to get your hands dirty - save $150 and get a TWM...

I just installed the TWM and i love it....The shifting is alot quicker, and its also a little tighter to shift, which i didnt like at first but now i love, cause it feels like the gears click into place...feels a little more racey....

ps...aarontrini85 How Did U go About fixing Your shift boot...mine looks all scrunched up
[/img]

ps...aarontrini85 How Did U go About fixing Your shift boot...mine looks all scrunched up

You probably meant my picture (above - TRD knob and TWM shifter), right?

If so, here is a little word-less DIY that I put together for people who asked how to fix the shift boot: http://zoltiz.com/cars/tc/bootdiy/

now its poorly designed :blah:
TRD cost more b/c of mark up by toyota not b/c of the amount of research that went in to it.
but lets just say they did do more research twm is still a shorter throw so you tell me which one is better?
performance wise the twm.

Oh yea, TRD markup? Thanks, I'm glad that you were on the team that designed it and feel qualified to make such statements.

I can accurately say that the TWM is poorly designed because it's just a shortened shift arm, period. It is widely known that shortening the shift arm is a ghetto way to make a short shifter. It increases effort, decreases shifter height (which is, for the sane, a bad thing), and also manages to reduce throw in the process.

If you're judging the shifters by the shortest throw possible you're a moron anyways. If you wanted a super short throw, why not just hack off your stock one and have it threaded by someone with a die and thread kit? That's pretty much what the TWM shifter is doing.

The TRD shifter does everything right: reduces throw, keeps the stock shifter height, and changes the attachment to the linkage for good shifter feel as opposed to lopping off the top of the stock design.

I have the TWM w/ the shift knob and I LOVE IT.....if your into a factory feeling short shifter get the TWM...it is similar to the S2K and the Miata...the pivot point is changed and the w/ the shift knob it helps the shifter slide alot easier into gear. Also, it doesn't get hot at all, the shift knob is all steel and coated so it doesn't rust or anything....I think it's the best short shifter kit on the market for the tc....IMO

I need to hear more opinions from people with the B&M shifter, since it lowers the shaft a half an inch and changes the pivot point.

TWM posted a pic in a earlier thread. and there is a difference in the pivot point. 1 the height is dropped lower. and also the pivot point is reduced. IMO twm made a good shifter and so did trd. if you have the money go TRD, and if you like the stock height with a short throw. but if you want the short height and short throw go TWM. most people here think that TWM is basically a stock shifter that has been chopped. :no: not true. installation might be harder than TRD, but its at half the cost. so i hope that helps some. :P

yeah, I find it hard to believe that throws can be reduced by 35% just by dropping the knob. Plus, the descripton on TWMs site says it reduces throws AND drops the knob height. I'm liking it.

I need to hear more opinions from people with the B&M shifter, since it lowers the shaft a half an inch and changes the pivot point.

I installed the B&M last night and really like it. The throw is shorter and the shaft is lower by about 1/2 inch. For me though, this is what I wanted cause I have the small TRD ball-type shift knob that is not weighted. The extra arm length helps with leverage. I have had C's and TRD short shifters in the past and the B&M is a very nice product.

TWM has someone on this forum just ask him/her for the specifics on their shifter and shift knob...Here is my TWM shifter w/ shift knob

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p4d6619368b511286a7d268723ed6f957/f4effc15.jpg

I can accurately say that the TWM is poorly designed because it's just a shortened shift arm, period. It is widely known that shortening the shift arm is a ghetto way to make a short shifter. It increases effort, decreases shifter height (which is, for the sane, a bad thing), and also manages to reduce throw in the process.

If you're judging the shifters by the shortest throw possible you're a moron anyways. If you wanted a super short throw, why not just hack off your stock one and have it threaded by someone with a die and thread kit? That's pretty much what the TWM shifter is doing.



I feel its necessary at this point to clear this up. The above statement is false. A great deal of research and development goes into every shifter which we design. Unlike many other companies we specialize in the design and manufacture of short shifters specifically, so we most certainly understand the concept behind them. The tC shifter, like all of the shifters we design, does reposition the pivot point as well as the overall height of the shifter. This is an issue that has been discussed in the past, please see the post below for a more detailed explanation. Note the picture which compares our shifter to the stock tC shifter, it clearly shows that the pivot point has been adjusted (as many members of this board have already pointed).

I'm always available to answer any questions that anyone has regarding our products.

Thanks,

Karel Wegert
TWM Performance

I wont be buying that at all... it's a total waste of money for something it doesn't do. It dosen't shorten the shifts, it just feels like it does cuz they made the top of the shifter shorter. A "short shifter" doesn't mean that the stick you see is shorter necessarily, it means that your shift throws are shorter. This is accomplished by raising the pivot point on the shifter (the ball) like this:

http://www.bpt-racer.com/albums/short_shifter/shortshifter001.jpg

What TMW did on that shifter could easily be accomplished by taking your stock shfiter out and hack-sawing about 2" from the top of it and then installing some kind of universal set-screw type shift knob. Check this out:

http://www.i64x.com/tmw.jpg

They didn't raise the pivot point at all... it's exactly the same length as the stock one. The whole idea behind raising the pivot point is that it takes less movement on top of that point to make the bottom of the lever move more.

TMWs shifter isn't a "short shfiter" at all... it's just a "shortened" shifter and provides no real performance upgrade. It's simply for looks... and it costs way more than it should.

Your concept is correct but in this case the picture you used to illustrate your point is slightly misleading. First, the shifters are at an odd angle which creates the illusion that they are the same length below the pivot ball when in fact they are not. Also, the stock shifter still has the plastic cup installed on the lower ball, which makes it appear longer than it actually is because it ends lower than the ball inside it does. I do, however, see how you could make this assumption based on the picture you saw as it does create a strange illusion.

Our tC shifter is actually roughly .5" longer below the pivot ball, the maximum amount of added length possible due to clearance issues with the shift assembly.

I've attached a picture we took quickly this morning that shows a stock tC shifter next to our part from an overhead perspective, as you can see the difference in length below the pivot ball is much more apparant from this angle.

http://www.twmperformance.com/TC-stock-vs.twm.gif

I hope this clears things up a little bit, feel free to contact me directly if anyone ever has any questions about our products.

Thanks,

Karel Wegert
TWM Performance

like i said. the pivot point has been changed :eyebrow:

i said it to i said it to now if only i could order one damn i need to pay off my credit card

I feel its necessary at this point to clear this up. The above statement is false. A great deal of research and development goes into every shifter which we design. Unlike many other companies we specialize in the design and manufacture of short shifters specifically, so we most certainly understand the concept behind them. The tC shifter, like all of the shifters we design, does reposition the pivot point as well as the overall height of the shifter. This is an issue that has been discussed in the past, please see the post below for a more detailed explanation. Note the picture which compares our shifter to the stock tC shifter, it clearly shows that the pivot point has been adjusted (as many members of this board have already pointed).

I'm always available to answer any questions that anyone has regarding our products.

Thanks,

Karel Wegert
TWM Performance


Interesting, but if you measure the lengths shown in the picture above, the length below the pivot ball is exactly the same. The shifteres are oriented in same way, so if there's any distortion due to weird angles, it should be present on both of them.

I can see that it's obvious from the pictures that you posted, but why would it be any different for anyone else? Why the discrepency?

Awsome Karel! Thank you so much for the info! I was going to contact you directly, but you did not leave your contact information, so I'll just ask you a question here:
I am planning on getting the TWM shifter and putting the Sparco Bio shift knob on it. http://www.sparcousa.com/ptuning_knobs.asp?id=306 I'm hoping it's a little taller then the regular knob. How do you think this will effect the throw of your short shifter?

I feel its necessary at this point to clear this up. The above statement is false. A great deal of research and development goes into every shifter which we design. Unlike many other companies we specialize in the design and manufacture of short shifters specifically, so we most certainly understand the concept behind them. The tC shifter, like all of the shifters we design, does reposition the pivot point as well as the overall height of the shifter. This is an issue that has been discussed in the past, please see the post below for a more detailed explanation. Note the picture which compares our shifter to the stock tC shifter, it clearly shows that the pivot point has been adjusted (as many members of this board have already pointed).

I'm always available to answer any questions that anyone has regarding our products.

Thanks,

Karel Wegert
TWM Performance


Interesting, but if you measure the lengths shown in the picture above, the length below the pivot ball is exactly the same. The shifteres are oriented in same way, so if there's any distortion due to weird angles, it should be present on both of them.

I can see that it's obvious from the pictures that you posted, but why would it be any different for anyone else? Why the discrepency?

Dude, lay off the paint chips! What more proof do you need? Why are you arguing with the manufactuer and eveyone else for that matter?

Dude, lay off the paint chips! What more proof do you need? Why are you arguing with the manufactuer and eveyone else for that matter?

I'm skeptical! There are two clearly different pictures!

buy one and if its not what you think or up to your standards. return it. you must have been lied to alot when you were a child :silly: . j/k and seriously most peps here are stating that it is changed and yet you still do not believe it. so sad sorry. :no:

twm is not cheap it all, it is a very nice product and anyone that has one will say the same thing. I have not herd one bad thing about twm. it offers the shortest throw right now. as far as the height it is a preference thing and you already said you wanted it lower. you can get the twm for about 10.00 more than the b&m and lower you shifter height more and reduce the throw as well.

:clap: true eh. not only is it a great product eh, but the fellas in canada are a pretty cool bunch of mooses eh.

Go TWM or go nowhere. Gee that's a pretty good slogan! TWM you can pay me now!

Awsome Karel! Thank you so much for the info! I was going to contact you directly, but you did not leave your contact information, so I'll just ask you a question here:
I am planning on getting the TWM shifter and putting the Sparco Bio shift knob on it. http://www.sparcousa.com/ptuning_knobs.asp?id=306 I'm hoping it's a little taller then the regular knob. How do you think this will effect the throw of your short shifter?

Sorry about that, you can reach me any time at kwegert@twmperformance.com or 1-888-569-8963.

Using a taller shift knob, like the sparco part, won't really change the throw of our shifter a great deal. If you sat down and did the calculations it may add a couple of percent but it won't really be noticeable. The majority of throw reduction on of part comes from the new placement for the pivot point.

Hope that helps...

Karel
TWM
kwegert@twmperformance.com

Awsome! Perfect! I'm sold!

Awsome Karel! Thank you so much for the info! I was going to contact you directly, but you did not leave your contact information, so I'll just ask you a question here:
I am planning on getting the TWM shifter and putting the Sparco Bio shift knob on it. http://www.sparcousa.com/ptuning_knobs.asp?id=306 I'm hoping it's a little taller then the regular knob. How do you think this will effect the throw of your short shifter?

Sorry about that, you can reach me any time at kwegert@twmperformance.com or 1-888-569-8963.

Using a taller shift knob, like the sparco part, won't really change the throw of our shifter a great deal. If you sat down and did the calculations it may add a couple of percent but it won't really be noticeable. The majority of throw reduction on of part comes from the new placement for the pivot point.


Hope that helps...

Karel
TWM
kwegert@twmperformance.com

What is the thread size for our shifter? TIA

Karel, thanks for the clarification of the TWM. I will be getting one soon.
Nice job…

I just installed a Perrin Short shifter on a TC, is fully adjustable, is a little bit shorter looking than stock, but the throws are some of the shortest I have evel felt on a car, also the feel is VERY solid. I need to find a TC with the TWM so I can compare the two.

I just installed a Perrin Short shifter on a TC, is fully adjustable, is a little bit shorter looking than stock, but the throws are some of the shortest I have evel felt on a car, also the feel is VERY solid. I need to find a TC with the TWM so I can compare the two.

where did you find a perrin for a tc? the only one i see on there site looks like its for an xb please let me know where you found it they seem realy cool becouse you can select the throw

I just installed a Perrin Short shifter on a TC, is fully adjustable, is a little bit shorter looking than stock, but the throws are some of the shortest I have evel felt on a car, also the feel is VERY solid. I need to find a TC with the TWM so I can compare the two.

where did you find a perrin for a tc? the only one i see on there site looks like its for an xb please let me know where you found it they seem realy cool becouse you can select the throw

Perrin send me a prototype to test out, wich just happens to be the same shifter for the Xa/Xb, I went over to vividracing to use their shop for the install, and I know they have some XA/XB shifters wich are the same as the TC, might want to give them a call. :)

then my shifter will me tall as hell i want a short stance from my shifter also or atleast the factory hight i dont want it any taller

I dont care what all the non believers say, I personally have the TWM, a friend of mine has the TRD, and another has B&M and after driving them all we all came to the conclusion that the TWM was the shortest throw. After driving a while they really got used to my low stance shifter and wished they bought it instead of the ones they have. The shifters in our tC's look rediculous at how TALL they are and should have been alot shorter from the factory

Just an FYI, we offer two separate shifters for the tC and the xA/xB. If you use the xA/xB short shifter in the tC the height is virtually the same as stock. We took the time to design a shifter specifically for the tC that brings the knob to a comfortable and esthetically pleasing height.

Thanks.

Karel
TWM

I am going to make the purchase soon as well. I believe the install is a pain in the @#$ because it needs to come from under the car. And the exhaust piping gets in the way. The price at a local shop should be around an hours worth of labor.

This mod is so fun. I did it to my Civic SI and its great. One of my favorite mods becuase you shift all the time. You have less power lost when rpm's are high and you shift. more power = more speed.

I am going to make the purchase soon as well. I believe the install is a pain in the @#$ because it needs to come from under the car. And the exhaust piping gets in the way. The price at a local shop should be around an hours worth of labor.

This mod is so fun. I did it to my Civic SI and its great. One of my favorite mods becuase you shift all the time. You have less power lost when rpm's are high and you shift. more power = more speed.

The install in the tC is totally in the inside of the car. No need to get under the car at all. It's just a matter of removing your console pieces. You shouldn't need to pay a shop to do it.

Jmiller is right, the entire install is done inside the car.

If you'd like to view the installation manual before hand just right click and save as:

http://www.twmperformance.com/shortshifters/scionshortshifters/2005%20Scion%20TC%20Manual.pdf

The installation is very straight forward.

Thanks and let me know if you have any questions.

Karel
TWM

then my shifter will me tall as hell i want a short stance from my shifter also or atleast the factory hight i dont want it any tallerThe stance is just like stock, maybe a bit shorter.