Im trying to confrim that the TC2 has linear springs?

A type of spring designed so that the force deflecting the spring is in direct proportion to the distance the spring travels. The linear spring is the most common type of spring.

Thanks
Chris

Yes it does...also known as a constant rate spring.

perfect thanks, so cutting shouldnt be an issue

perfect thanks, so cutting shouldnt be an issue


It shouldn't,i cut mine.. I wouldn't recommend it ride quality turns to Shyt..i ended up buying used oem springs on Ebay for 60 bucks..i went 2" also another issue I has if you thinking about going more then 1.5 you might have to weld the spring in place..it poped out of place when turning the steering wheel from one side to the other..

When you cut a spring, the ends need to be 180 degrees apart. That is how they are made. I would buy a set of springs, and read the TRD instructions on spring clocking(positioning) or you will ruin your strut upper mount bearing assembly.
TRD instructions state that the spring ends need to be within 60 degrees of the spindle/suspension arm..The exact jargon is in a link on page 2 of this thread.
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198824
Our cars are made super cheaply, so proper parts orientation is critical. Quite a few OG's had to replace upper bearings at like 180 bucks a pop..I might be next, got some creaking noise on low speed turning. I swear I installed my springs by marking everything like the factory had it and reassembling exactly the same. I wish now that I had made sure to check the spring clocking.

When you lower, rates should go up. It is and always will be a dumb idea to cut springs. Especially these days when aftermarket springs are so cheap.

Honestly all that work wen u can spend 220$ on a set of nice s techs

I have a spare set of OEM's and by the time it gets to me in ottawa its closer to 400 after shipping and taxes. The drop isn't enough so if I make a mistake with the cut or have issues ill put the other set of OEM's on and get the dealer to fix it under warrenty

Wow, ethics at work !

Like i said, dumb idea. Its your car though. You want it to handle like a box of s#1t, go for it. I mean, stechs make it handle bad enough, but cutting springs? :p

Hah how come everybody likes ksport springs so much? Wen they hit the tc2 market it seems like their gunna sell out after a day

Wow, ethics at work !

Like i said, dumb idea. Its your car though. You want it to handle like a box of s#1t, go for it. I mean, stechs make it handle bad enough, but cutting springs? :p

Ethics from a dealership at the time I bought my car the dealership did not cut the price at all even tho our dollar was higher than the US buck. They kill us up here on prices on anything.

Their pricing has nothing to do with ethics. They wanted to sell it at a price (which is totally their choice) and you wanted to buy it (your choice) .... and you bought it at the price you saw it. No one forced you to buy the car. There was nothing unethical about that. Screwing up a car by doing something incorrectly and then passing off the damage as a warranty claim (which Toyota corp pays a chunk of, not just the dealership you go to) is unethical, and is the very reason that dealers always want to first deny a claim, because so many kids these days screw them over on it. So in other words, we all pay for it in the long run.

Lord knows I am no angel, but I dont cheat my way out of my own mistakes either.

But chances are if you pay attention to what you are doing, you wont break anything directly. The car will just handle like complete and total crap ... possibly dramatically raising the chances that if you get into an emergency situation you will lose control and smash into something, someone, etc.

Wow, ethics at work !

Like i said, dumb idea. Its your car though. You want it to handle like a box of s#1t, go for it. I mean, stechs make it handle bad enough, but cutting springs? :p

lowering springs might make the ride rougher (....not really) but they definitely do not make it handle worse.

Lowering without raising spring rates (aka cutting springs or running crap like stechs) absolutely diminishes handling. Ask the people who have tracked and/or autocrossed stechs and experienced horrible push while they were bouncing off the bump stops due to under stiff springs.

And over lowering absolutely equals poor handling.

With springs like stechs and cut springs you have one or both of the above.

There is way more to it than the simplistic view of lowering the cg. Go get familiar with roll couples, motion ratios, wheel rates, camber curves etc and you will understand why anyone who is shooting for competitive handling is running much milder drops than stechs and much higher spring rates. Stechs are for slamming while trying to keep the ride cushy, not at all for improving handling. Some will chime in and say "my car handles awesome on my stechs yo!" and none of them have actually seriously pushed the car in a timed environment and tried multiple different setups to find out what works.

But in no case is cutting stock springs a good choice. If you really want all show no go slam it smushy suspension, buy some stechs or something before hacking up oem units.

Is that y ppl buy coilovers? So they can have a nice 2in drop with stiffer suspension? Noob question

It varies as to why they buy them. When wanting good handling, the ability to corner balance is of importance. Also, being able to set the ride height exactly where it needs to be. And a lot of them come with camber plates up front, which is almost a must when you really want a setup you can daily drive, yet really get the most out of on the course or track. I utilize all of those benefits with my coilovers.

Some buy them just so they can slam it as far as they can, which in any case is not providing very good handling, but at least with a decent set, the rates are high which helps some.

2in is way too low for the first gen (and likely the 2nd gen) in terms of optimal handling. 1.4 to 1.5 is more like it. To put it in perspective, i am sitting at about that drop with 390/559 spring rates.

... When wanting good handling, the ability to corner balance is of importance...

That requires having scales under each wheel when you do your wheel alignment…to get the weight distribution right! Not too many “speed shops” even have that! They don’t realize that that is the biggest advantage of having coilovers…in terms of handling. And if you don’t have scales under each wheel for the alignment, it is an advantage that is not utilized…and money wasted!

Thanx for the info. Wen a bigger selection hits the market i will prolly buy a set of the best spring rated set.

Im goin to be purchasing a bigger sway bar set wen they come out and ive heard for an ideal setup u want stiff swar bars with softer springs or stiff spring with softer sway bars. Any comment on this?

That requires having scales under each wheel when you do your wheel alignment…to get the weight distribution right! Not too many “speed shops” even have that! They don’t realize that that is the biggest advantage of having coilovers…in terms of handling. And if you don’t have scales under each wheel for the alignment, it is an advantage that is not utilized…and money wasted!

I would be blown away to find a good alignment shop that does performance alignments that didnt have scales. Hell I know people with corner scales in their personal garage! The one man shop i get my alignments from has them. My car was aligned to my specs with 180 lbs of ballast in the drivers seat and balanced on a set of scales.

Thanx for the info. Wen a bigger selection hits the market i will prolly buy a set of the best spring rated set.

Im goin to be purchasing a bigger sway bar set wen they come out and ive heard for an ideal setup u want stiff swar bars with softer springs or stiff spring with softer sway bars. Any comment on this?

Use stiff springs to get rid of a chunk of the body roll. Then run a stiffer rear bar and stock front bar. That will tune out some of the understeer. Keeping the stock front bar will leave more independence up there which helps battle corner exit wheel spin which is inherent in open diff fwd cars. Keep in mind though that a super stiff rear sway will make it more prone to snap oversteer. If you are just running it on the street, something like a progress or trd rear sway is more than enough on the first gen. I run a dg spec rear bar which makes it much more over-steery for autox. If you are not really used to pushing the car past its limits i would not rec omend that bar in full stiff for the street.

Thanx for the info. Wen a bigger selection hits the market i will prolly buy a set of the best spring rated set.

Im goin to be purchasing a bigger sway bar set wen they come out and ive heard for an ideal setup u want stiff swar bars with softer springs or stiff spring with softer sway bars. Any comment on this?

There is no way of knowing in advance if “bigger is better”. The only way you will tune (size) you suspension components is to buy a bucket load of suspension components, get your azz to the race track, put on the helmet, gloves and diving suit and strap your azz into the driver’s seat. Then you ware out the stopwatch and get writer’s cramps from taking good notes on your suspension setup… You better know in advance on what each component change will do to your handling so you can verify/validate with the stopwatch. From your comments, it does not sound like you are competent enough to accomplish this...in other words, you are in way over your head! Stick to seeing how low you can go with f00cking up your handling like most of the rest of the people here on ScionLife…all show and no go!

I would be blown away to find a good alignment shop that does performance alignments that didnt have scales. Hell I know people with corner scales in their personal garage! The one man shop i get my alignments from has them. My car was aligned to my specs with 180 lbs of ballast in the drivers seat and balanced on a set of scales.

Wow! Can I be your friend? I'm impressed!

Yo eoio3, forums r here for ppl like myself to learn. Dont be a d1ck cuz u may know more then the average person about tuning suspension. If "we all" ____ u off so much then get off forums cuz most ppl r here to learn and those who are knowledgeable of the perticular topic help us learn.

Well, most of his comments above are not true at all. Enough of the legwork has been done and you can gain enough knowledge to make good decisions. You may not end up with the fastest setup on earth, but for a street car that is not what you are looking for.

Most people that have actually competed in a fwd car know that it is hard to go too large on a rear sway with most of the off the shelf parts that are out there. For example, on the first gen tC, besides the DG spec bar on full stiff or a hotchkis rear on full stiff/stock front bar, it is hard to go too stiff for a street car. Products made by progress or TRD will make a very noticeable improvement in handling on a street car without overdoing things, since that is what they are building for. Leave the front bar stock in most cases.

For drop, not many have done the homework on a 2nd gen yet, but generally on these types of setups going more than about a 1.5 inch drop is throwing the geometry out of whack. As you drop, spring rates should go up. Hard to say yet what the good handling setups will be for the 2nd gen.

EOIO, I am not sure why you are acting the way you are. Finding aligment shops that have scales is not some sort of rarity like you say. If they do performance alignments, they will have them. "Speed shops" or "tuner shops" tend to be nothing but rice factories, which is why they dont know how to properly align a car and dont have the equipment.

The main point here is that the comment earlier that lowering springs improve handling is very, very generalized and incorrect. Most times they are built more for looks and a cushy ride than actually making the car handle better.

^ thank you fo the detailed clarrification. I got the car in december of 2010 so the parts out for us were beyond limited. So i Heard tein was a good brand but didnt know until lately that springs are rated on their compression. Wen i was buying my stechs i didnt see anything about the spring rate. So i went on the lowest drop at the time thinking this wud help my handling. Clearly now i know thats incorrect. They really do help some over stock but now im curious on how the et springs will handle! Wish there was a bigger selection out ther. Soon enough hopefully

Yo eoio3, forums r here for ppl like myself to learn. Dont be a d1ck cuz u may know more then the average person about tuning suspension. If "we all" ____ u off so much then get off forums cuz most ppl r here to learn and those who are knowledgeable of the perticular topic help us learn.

You learn by going to school and/or making mistakes…this is the internet...

But chances are if you pay attention to what you are doing, you wont break anything directly. The car will just handle like complete and total crap ... possibly dramatically raising the chances that if you get into an emergency situation you will lose control and smash into something, someone, etc.

^^this last section is the most inaccurate generalization in the thread, since we're calling out generalizations....

Lowering without raising spring rates (aka cutting springs or running crap like stechs) absolutely diminishes handling. Ask the people who have tracked and/or autocrossed stechs and experienced horrible push while they were bouncing off the bump stops due to under stiff springs.

And over lowering absolutely equals poor handling.

With springs like stechs and cut springs you have one or both of the above.

There is way more to it than the simplistic view of lowering the cg. Go get familiar with roll couples, motion ratios, wheel rates, camber curves etc and you will understand why anyone who is shooting for competitive handling is running much milder drops than stechs and much higher spring rates. Stechs are for slamming while trying to keep the ride cushy, not at all for improving handling. Some will chime in and say "my car handles awesome on my stechs yo!" and none of them have actually seriously pushed the car in a timed environment and tried multiple different setups to find out what works.

But in no case is cutting stock springs a good choice. If you really want all show no go slam it smushy suspension, buy some stechs or something before hacking up oem units.

^^Correction...over lowering without adjustments does indeed hurt handling, S-techs lower AND raise spring rate (in addition, they're progressive) so the statement that cutting and S-techs lower w/o raising spring rate is false.... Assuming that no one has successfully run s-techs in Auto-X is another inaccurate generalization.

For drop, not many have done the homework on a 2nd gen yet, but generally on these types of setups going more than about a 1.5 inch drop is throwing the geometry out of whack. As you drop, spring rates should go up. Hard to say yet what the good handling setups will be for the 2nd gen.

EOIO, I am not sure why you are acting the way you are. Finding aligment shops that have scales is not some sort of rarity like you say. If they do performance alignments, they will have them. "Speed shops" or "tuner shops" tend to be nothing but rice factories, which is why they dont know how to properly align a car and dont have the equipment.

The main point here is that the comment earlier that lowering springs improve handling is very, very generalized and incorrect. Most times they are built more for looks and a cushy ride than actually making the car handle better.

^^so, I agree, I did make a general comment about lowering springs not hurting performance. So you make generalizations to prove that S-techs are crap and will ruin handling. Since we're both working in generalizations, one has to decide which generalization is more accurate. Dropping your car on S-techs approximately 1.5"f & 1.7" rear with 180/320 lbs./in. progressive springs is not the detriment to handling that you'd have us believe. It's not like some dude in a metal shop is mindlessly marketing a spring that leads to catastrophic failure. Tein has an Army of engineers that test and tweak these products to each specific platform. You might not have done the research necessary for the 2011 tC platform yet, but they have. And I have a feeling they have an adequate knowledge of roll couples, motion ratios, wheel rates, etc.

You learn by going to school and/or making mistakes…this is the internet...

this is hilarious.....there are a lot of different ways in which people learn, and the internet has done more to influence learning than many of them.

this is hilarious...

Thank you...

...there are a lot of different ways in which people learn...

So, we do kind of agree by me saying…”[by] making mistakes”. Now that I’ve said it twice, I’ve got a question for you. What kind of person does not make any mistakes? Answer; The one who does nothing. So, as NIKE puts it, "Just do it!"

...the internet has done more to influence learning than many of them.

True, but if this is the only place…good luck in getting a job! Kind of like saying that you will grow strong and healthy by just eating spices and vitamins…you still need to eat the food for that to happen. While spices and vitamins in the right quantities can make the food tastier and/or better for you, it is still not food.

.....I never said anything about not making mistakes, and I do agree w/you about learning from school and mistakes......my point was that you cannot discount the internet as a learning tool, or these forums for that matter. True...A skill must be practiced hands-on, that part of what you're saying is true; but information can be learned as easy on the internet as in a book or classroom.

OK…the OP asked a simple question…and the simple question was answered.
Most people don’t understand the difference between knowledge and information. Knowledge is tough to come by and information can be gotten very easily on the interned…among other places. We have gotten way off topic…this thread should be closed.

OK…the OP asked a simple question…and the simple question was answered.
Most people don’t understand the difference between knowledge and information. Knowledge is tough to come by and information can be gotten very easily on the interned…among other places. We have gotten way off topic…this thread should be closed.

yet another thread gone horribly, horribly awry...