In Technical Service Bulletin AC007-04, Toyota offers an air conditioning upgrade for xBs. It includes, among other things, a new compressor and condenser. The introduction to the TSB says:

"In high ambient temperature areas, some 2004-2005 model years Scion xB owners feel the A/C system does not blow cold enough air. This procedure provides a method to improve this condition."

So I called a dealer service department to find out about getting this done before it gets hot around here. He says I need to come in and have my A/C system performance checked first to see if I qualify.

Is this standard, or is he just trying to get out of a lot of work?

If it's standard, then shouldn't I wait until some stinking hot day to have the system performance checked?

If that's true then I want to get mine checked.

But overall, Im enjoying my A/C air flow. Maybe it's beacause I had to deal with a 91 corolla for a couple years hehehe

Can you post the whole TSB?

I think that your dealer is making you jump through hoops. Toyota has acknowleged that a defect exists and they are paying for the repair, so the dealer shouldn't be too picky.

I know of one person here in SoCal who had it done recently, even thought the AC wasn't exactly "performance challenged" in the winter!

I plan on getting mine done, along with the fuel filler TSB, as soon as the weather warms up so I can measure the difference in performance.

Can you post the whole TSB?

Well, it's 27 pages long. Besides, when I found reference to it here at Scion Life, there was some question of the legality of posting the info or links to it. Rather than cause trouble, I'll just say to use the TSB number to search for more info.

I think that your dealer is making you jump through hoops.

Yeah, I know there's this warranty work dance between customers, dealers and manufactureres. The dealers seldom feel like the manufacturer compensates them enough for warranty work. It takes up staff, space and time that could be spent on more profitable stuff, so the dealers resist.

thats interesting, i might go get mine checked out.

Is this for all xB's or just the 04's/03's? or what does it aply to?

nm duh sorry

Ya I herd about this almost 6 months ago. I went to get my oil changed, and the scion rep. asked me if there was anything wrong with my a/c. The guy in the service dept. said that it only applys to certian xBs( I think he said the 04s), or if you have a noticeable change.

p.s. My a/c smells like real bad (like a wet shirt has been sitting in my car), when I first turn the a/c on. Is that common??

Is this for all xB's or just the 04's/03's? or what does it aply to?


The TSB offers two levels of upgrade, depending on the VIN:

- Start of production to JTLKT3#4*50190681 get installation of BOTH the Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and the Air Conditioner Additional Kit

- JTLKT3#4*50190681 to present get installation of the Air Conditioner Additional Kit ONLY.

The "Additional Kit" includes the compressor and condenser. The "Accessory Assembly" includes a new A/C blower, heater and defroster nozzle.

This TSB as of 9/23/2004 so I don't know who is effected after this date (I got mine in mid-November 2004 (it is an 2005).

I want to do this too...but i want to hear a success story first...

Start of production to JTLKT3#4*50190681 get installation of BOTH the Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and the Air Conditioner Additional Kit

- JTLKT3#4*50190681 to present get installation of the Air Conditioner Additional Kit ONLY.

same bracket??

I got all the info together yesterday, while it was warm :rofl: :rofl:
Of course I forgot all about it today (60 degrees) until I saw this post. I'm going to the dealer on saturday.

My xB is an 05, but an earlier one (delivered 7/29/04) and it is applicable under the first case with the accessory kit. I should also note, that while highly unlikely, this TSB is not valid for anyone with more that 36,000 miles.

Is this for all xB's or just the 04's/03's? or what does it aply to?


The TSB offers two levels of upgrade, depending on the VIN:

- Start of production to JTLKT3#4*50190681 get installation of BOTH the Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and the Air Conditioner Additional Kit

- JTLKT3#4*50190681 to present get installation of the Air Conditioner Additional Kit ONLY.

The "Additional Kit" includes the compressor and condenser. The "Accessory Assembly" includes a new A/C blower, heater and defroster nozzle.

I have those TSB's in paper form. I was also thinking of getting it done "just because". That was until I read the whole TSB. They both are real big time labor intensive. I think that they involve not only removing your complete dash board assembly, but the whole front bumper assembly as well.

I started thinking I'll just leave well enough alone until I really need it. Don't want someone taking apart my car without ME around.

Start of production to JTLKT3#4*50190681 get installation of BOTH the Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and the Air Conditioner Additional Kit

- JTLKT3#4*50190681 to present get installation of the Air Conditioner Additional Kit ONLY.

same bracket??

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

My xB is an 05, but an earlier one (delivered 7/29/04) and it is applicable under the first case with the accessory kit. I should also note, that while highly unlikely, this TSB is not valid for anyone with more that 36,000 miles.

Correct. You need to still be within the 36 mo./36K miles limits of the regular warranty.

I'm trying to get a handle on these TSBs. The site that previously hosted them has merged with another site and the owner no longer has the TSBs. I'm trying to get in touch with the person to which he handed them off. Unfortunately, that site is non-functional. Still trying...

George

If I remember right, the TSB included a test to see if the AC was already blowing cold enough. I think it was a specific temp they were looking for (as opposed to a delta) Makes sense the warmer the day the less chance you'll get below that temp. I'd wait, or call the next dealer down the road :)

Does anyone know up to what month of production the XB airconditioner was affected by this TSB.

For instance, did they start produciing the Xb at the factory with the new a/c system say...... in November 2004?

If I remember right, the TSB included a test to see if the AC was already blowing cold enough. I think it was a specific temp they were looking for (as opposed to a delta) Makes sense the warmer the day the less chance you'll get below that temp. I'd wait, or call the next dealer down the road :)

Nope. Neither TSB specifies a test. All the TSB says is that there has to be is a "specific customer complaint".

The TSBs are available here:

http://www.club-swat.com/~scion/files/

The ones you want are the ones with the prefix "AC..."

I wonder if there's a downside to the new compressor, like reduced power and increased fuel consumption. I'm guessing they didn't make it standard equipment on 2005's for that reason.

whats wrong with your free 4/60 unit

whats wrong with your free 4/60 unit
Bwaahhh haa haa...wait, that stopped being funny when I was like 15.

Anyway, I called my dealer and they told me that I need to come in at my convenience. Does anyone know how long they will need my car? I can't really afford to go without a car right now.

I wonder if there's a downside to the new compressor, like reduced power and increased fuel consumption. I'm guessing they didn't make it standard equipment on 2005's for that reason.

Well, my guess is that they are upgrading the Echo AC system to something more like a Corolla or Camry, so it will probably use a bit more power. However, I see no difference between my summer and winter mileage, so the AC doesn't seem to have a significant effect.

I just got back from the dealer and here is what I learned.

The parts listed in the TSB are NOT UPGRADED parts. They are the exact same as what's installed in the factory. The TSB is for those vehicles with defective A/C from the factory. The parts won't make properly functioning A/C systems work better, only fix the ones that aren't. In other words, Toyota is saying it's a parts manufacturing problem, not an A/C system design flaw.

What is "working properly" you might ask? I did. Their standard is that the pressure in the cooling lines should be up to spec and air COMING OUT OF THE VENTS should be 45 degrees. They checked my A/C, and even on a morning when it was only 70 degrees outside, the best my system could do was 52 degrees.

So the dealer is ordering up the parts to fix my A/C and will do the work under warranty.

punk, let us know, im VERY interested to knwow the outcome of this, as i am considering getting this done as well...


thanks
C

Has anyone in the greater Boston, MA area had this done yet? Which dealership did the work?

In the TSB the radiator support gets new "packing" which appears to be shims. What is that supposed to do and even if one doesn't opt for the full service do these "packings" make sense?

RETURNING AND REPORTING

Got a call last week from the service guy saying the parts were in. We set up the repairs for today.

I pulled up at 8:00 AM and the guy was waiting for me. I didn't even need to identify myself. The paperwork was ready and I signed it. He took me to the loaner car guy (covered under warranty service) who handed me the keys to a Matrix XR. Away I went.

Even though the job requires replacing about a dozen parts, including the compressor, condenser and heater box, they called at 1:45 to say it was done.

I drove back to the dealer, gave the keys to the Matrix back to the loaner guy, checked in with the service rep, and a guy brought my car around, all ready to go and cranking out genuinely chilly air. (I'll have to put a thermometer on it to see if it's the specified 45 degrees.)

All in all, a painless experience.

So, Charlotte area Scion owners, based on that experience, I recommend Town & Country Toyota. So much more professional than the folks at Lake Norman Toyota who took 7 hours to do a spring install and alignment and then tried to claim that was normal.

I just got back from the dealer and here is what I learned.

The parts listed in the TSB are NOT UPGRADED parts. They are the exact same as what's installed in the factory....

That dealer is saying that every compressor, condenser, and associated part that is being replaced on each affected car is defective, but those on the next car down the assembly line were fine? That is a pretty big stretch! How did all those defective components manage to find each other on individual cars?

Condensers and compressors are expensive, and there's no way that Toyota would replace them as a set without a very good reason. All the ancillary work specified by the 27-page TSB also contradicts the dealer's assertion. If they are just replacing defective parts, why the extra work?

Edit: The parts may not be "upgraded" in that they are the same as the parts _currently_ installed at the factory. However, I'll bet that they _are_ different than the parts installed on early Scions!

I've learned that any statement by a representative of the dealer needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

George

I just checked mine today cuz the a/c performane is way weak but to my surprise i got 45-46 degrees. so damn.

I set up the thermometers and got the following data:

Outside Air Temperature 67F

Controls set to maximum cold, fresh air.

With blower set on lowest speed, outlet temperature varied from 48 to 50.

With blower set on highest speed, outlet temperature varied from 52 to 54.

Considering the low OAT, I have a definite feeling of AC weakness.

yeah geourge sounds like ya could stand to go in for the tsb.

i'm in the duncanville area - i have a black cherry pearl 04 xb. my a/c wasn't blowing cold enough either and i had the tsb done and got the new parts that you listed in your original post. i noticed it wasn't blowing cold enough and told them to take a look at it and they ended up changing the parts out. they didn't say anything about qualifying for it up front or anything - i just told them my problem and i got it done.

I set up the thermometers and got the following data:

Outside Air Temperature 67F

Controls set to maximum cold, fresh air.

With blower set on lowest speed, outlet temperature varied from 48 to 50.

With blower set on highest speed, outlet temperature varied from 52 to 54.

Considering the low OAT, I have a definite feeling of AC weakness.

If you set the A/C to max, you should use the recirculation mode. Most A/Cs do it automatically, but not the xB.

If you set the A/C to max, you should use the recirculation mode. Most A/Cs do it automatically, but not the xB.

With the low OAT, it didn't matter if the system recirculated or not.

Well, I asked that it be checked and it was - on a day that had a peak temp under 70F later on, it allegedly tested "OK" by blowing 46F air out it's vents in the early afternoon. (And yes, mine is within the S/N range covered by the TSB...)

No corrective work was done 'cause the tech felt that 46F output with the outside air in the 60's and the car not warm from being in the sun or whatever was just fine.

I'm more used to vehicle air that could get frost on the vents...

When we get to consistant warmer temps I'll give it another try, I guess.

Any chance this TSB will apply to the tC too? I have no complaints about our '05 xB but the A/C on my tC is not quite up to the task. I have tinted windows which should reduce the solar heating and make it easier on the A/C, but the Texas heat beats it every time, and its only in the mid 90's. I'm scared for when it gets up to 115... for weeks on end...

Also my tC A/C once made my cd player quit working, when I got the CD out it was wet with condensation! But its only happened once so maybe it was just a freak thing. The cd player has worked fine since.

Heh, when I used to live in Ft. Worth I had two cars with A/C in them - a Volvo 122S with an aftermarket unit from some outfit in Dallas, and a Plymouth Barracuda coupe with top end factory air (Climate Control).

Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...

The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.

The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.

The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.

These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.

Well, I asked that it be checked and it was - on a day that had a peak temp under 70F later on, it allegedly tested "OK" by blowing 46F air out it's vents in the early afternoon. (And yes, mine is within the S/N range covered by the TSB...)

No corrective work was done 'cause the tech felt that 46F output with the outside air in the 60's and the car not warm from being in the sun or whatever was just fine.

This is disturbingly normal with Toyota service. My dealer tried to refuse to fix the Toyota acknowleged CD skip problem because "the technician could not reproduce the problem". Sure, as if a tech is going to sit there for 30 minutes waiting for the CD player to skip! I ended up going through two layers of supervision before someone finally OK'd the replacement of the CD player per the TSB. At that, they punished me by making me come in a second time and leave the car all day for a 30-minute job,.

Needless to say, i won't go in for the AC TSB until it is 100F+ out.

BTW, there is no single "magic temperature" for the AC to be "within spec" The repair manual test specifies the following:

(Repair Manual, page 55-4)

1. Cowl Inlet temperature (that's OAT) must be between 25C and 30C (That's 77F to 86F)

2. The technician must determine relative humidity by using a wet/dry bulb thermometer at the air inlet and consulting a psychrometric chart. Relative humidity must be between 30% and 70%

3. The vehicle must be stopped, in the shade, the door fully open, the AC switch on, engine at 2000RPM, inlet switch to outside air, outlet switch to face outlets only, temperature on max cold, blower on high, and high side pressure gauge at 1.5MPa.

4. The correct difference between the inlet and outlet temperatures is found by consulting another chart in the manual:
At 30% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 19.5C to 25C. (35.1-45F)
At 40% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 18C to 22,5C. (32.4-40.5F)-
At 50% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 16C to 21.5C. (28.8-38.7F)
At 60% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 14C to 19.5C. (25.2-35.1F)
At 70% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 12C to 18C. (21.6-32.4F)


So, let's say that it's 80 degrees outside and the humidity is 40% The temperature difference is 32.4-40.5F, so the AC is OK if the outlet temperature is somewhere between 39.5F and 47.6F.

As you can see, the system cannot even be tested unless the outside temperature is between 77F and 86F. One also wonders if there are any Toyota technicians outside of Japan who can actually perform the psychrometric determination of relative humidity _and_ who have the equipment and motivation to do so.

If they're going to play the "46 degrees is the magic number" game, just pick the right day to take the car in. Even a car that is within spec according to the Toyota test procedure would be blowing air much warmer than 46F on a hot, humid day!

Make sure that they test the system with the blower on high as specified. More air will yield a higher air temperature.

George

Heh, when I used to live in Ft. Worth I had two cars with A/C in them - a Volvo 122S with an aftermarket unit from some outfit in Dallas, and a Plymouth Barracuda coupe with top end factory air (Climate Control).

Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...

The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.

The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.

The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.

These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.

The later design AC units are certainly more efficient, but they shouldn't be less effective. They still use Freon (R-134a instead of R-12) and the pressures are similar to the old systems. If F*rd can make a frosty 134a air conditioner, surely Toyota can!

I believe that the weakness in the Scion's AC system has a lot to do with the fact that the Scion was originally intended to be a JDM vehicle only. The AC was designed to handle Japan's climate (typical August high in Tokyo is 88F) and obviously will not be able to handle the 100F+ temps common in the southern US.

Some JDM features aren't so desirable!

George

Did mine last year. A/C now works better. BTW, the box has a manufactured date of
07/03.

I posted a thread a few weeks ago asking xB owners to post temps of the air comming out of thier vents. I reported between 45-47 degrees on a 75 degree day.

I think my a/c is cold enough, and i certainly dont want the front end of my xB taken apart on the prospect of a few degrees cooler.

And it sounds like to me that alot of people who had the tsb performed didnt go below 45 degrees anyways......

I don't like others dismantaling the front of my box either, UnFocused, but my A/C will put out 45-48 degree air at low-medium fan speed on a 65 degree day - that does NOT seem reasonable...

Tomas, I think you should cool it (ha ha ha) until it gets warm out there in the Northwest. I remember being dismayed at my 1998 Subaru's A/C when I first tried it, because it didn't freeze my butt off on a mild day. It turned out to do just fine when the weather got hot. My xB's A/C also doesn't overchill me on mild days, but it's been adequate during our few hot days so far this year. I do have to run the blower at a higher speed than I'm used to with other cars. E.g. on any day with sun, the lowest fan position isn't enough. But I guess that isn't surprising, considering the interior volume.

I don't like others dismantaling the front of my box either, UnFocused, but my A/C will put out 45-48 degree air at low-medium fan speed on a 65 degree day - that does NOT seem reasonable...

Getting low outlet temps at low blower settings is easy. The air is in contact with the evaporator for a longer time, so it will get colder.

At higher blower settings it is much harder to get the air cooled, as it is only in contact with the evaporator for a very short time. That's why the Toyota test instructions say to run the blower on high.

I took some temperatures today on my AC. At an inlet temperature of 83 degrees, I was getting 51F air out of the outlets with everything set according to Toyota's test instructions. Unfortunately, the relative humidity was only 19%, under the Toyota's test minimum of 30%. However, according to Toyota's chart of acceptable temperature differences, lower humidity should produce a greater difference in temperature.

At 30% humidity, Toyota's specification says that the temperature difference should be 19.5C to 25.5C (35.1F to 45.9F)

This would mean that the outlet temperature should have been between 37.1F and 47.9F. The value I actually measured (51F) was above this range. Even worse, the lower humidity should have yielded slightly lower temperatures. Extrapolating the maximum and minimum curves of Toyota's acceptable temperature graph to 20% humidity yields an acceptable outlet temperature range of 34.4F to 44.3F. The measured temperature value is 6.7F above this range. a significant difference.

I'm hoping that tomorrow I'll get temperature and humidity within Toyota's test values. The problem in my part of SoCal, is that by the time the temperature is in Toyota's test range, the humidity goes too low!

Now, some folks might say "it's only six degrees, why worry about it? Well, I worry, because the Xb has a large passenger volume, so it has to cool a _lot_ of air at high temperatures. Also, AC systems tend to work less well with age, so a barely-adequate system now will slowly turn into an inadequate system in a couple of years.

how would one present this to the dealership...

i am in quite a predicament.

i'll try to sum it up short:

my xb is said to have a rodent in the ac system, said by the toyota serv. dept techs, all chopped up by the fan.

they told me to do to fix the problem it would cost me 1200+

i called my insurance; it is covered under accidental. resulting in a 500 deductible at another local shop.

my appt to bring it to the shop is tomorrow (monday) @ 8a

reading this, i would rather much bring my box into the dealership and have the manufacturers pay for the repairs...

would having the stated problem by the techs null my chances to have the TSB done?

should i postpone my appt at the shop and figure this out.

help would greatly appreciated and save me hundreds of dollars.

please PM me or AIM me. any info would be great.

and how should i present this TSB to the dealership?

FYI: Temecula Toyota/Scion has the worst cust. serv as far as the serv dept goes.

sen-

-quick bump-

bump-

i need advice quick! :pray:

sen-

sen go to another dealership and go in for the a/c tsb. if yer ac isnt that cold u will get a two in one. if yer ac is cold yer sol.

should i try pitching the tsb to my dealership that already inspected my box? or is that a lost cause?

can they refuse the TSB?

sen-

they could refuse it . especially if they know about the dead rat or mouse
i'd try another dealership. does yer ac blow satisfactorily or no ?

it blows okay...

i purchased my box at the end of 03...

that does not guarantee TSB qualification?

or do they have to run tests to "see if you qualify" kind of crap..

thanks for the feed hot

sen-

they test it. it wasnt earlier ones that had problems it was certain ones had defective pieces in the system.

Sensez, the AC007-04 TSB essentially has nothing to do with the blower inside the vehicle - it add/replaces some internal switches and such, replaces the radiator and compressor, etc.

The wordng on the TSB says: "** Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint. " So if one does not complain one doesn't get the fix...

If your A/C doesn't cool well enough, you might need the TSB, but the TSB won't dismantle, clean, and reassemble the interior blower assembly - that's yours, I'm afraid.

Good luck!

http://tijil.org/TSB.jpg

(That's page one of twenty-seven...)

i see...

i rather save 500...

hope i cna figure out someway to get the TSB...

sen-

damn...

so it looks like i'll have to spend the 500 sadly...

:cry:

sen-

i was told of a gas tank TSB as well...

where do you find info on all these TSBs?

sen-

I have copies of many of them, but only those that may apply to my box... I'll dig around and see if I still have a working link to the Scion TSBs somewhere... May be awhile, though, assuming I find it.

thanks Tom

sen-

sux the TSB wont help me this time...

Sensez, give this link a try:
Scion TSB copies (http://www.club-swat.com/~scion/Scion.htm)
There's NO guarantee the link will live forever, so grab the ones you may need and hold on to them...

Hope that helps. :)

thanks again...

sen-

so i'll have no luck on the TSB cleaning/flushing my ac of the rodent... =/

just take it apart yourself
it isnt that hard. the airbox is right under/ behind the glovebox.

i was told of a gas tank TSB as well...

where do you find info on all these TSBs?

sen-

all the tsb's should be under maintenence, found here: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6534&start=0

how would one present this to the dealership...

i am in quite a predicament.

i'll try to sum it up short:

my xb is said to have a rodent in the ac system, said by the toyota serv. dept techs, all chopped up by the fan.

they told me to do to fix the problem it would cost me 1200+
...

They're blowing smoke. The fan isn't strong enough to chop up a mouse even if the mouse could fit between the blades. There's no way that it would take 1200 dollars worth of labor to disassemble and clean the ductwork.

Find a different mechanic.

The TSB is a different issue. I think that getting it done is a matter of luck and perseverence. Be familiar with the test procedure (described earlier in this thread) before discussing it with the service writer or technician. It's not just sticking a thermometer into the outlet and reading a number!

You might get lucky and have them perform the TSB without a fight, but it seems like some dealers actively discourage customers from getting their TSBs satisfied.

I wonder if Toyota is shorting the dealers on the hours to perform the TSBs?

George

any and all warranty work earns a dealership 8/10ths the time it gets paid if it's warranty.

I think the tC needs a check. im getting mine tested this weekend becuase it definitly doesnt get cold enough! florida is really humid and hot, in case some of you didnt know that!

I didn't have to mention TSB or fight with the dealer over getting mine fixed. One day, out of the blue, the a/c was blowing warm air...took it in, and the dealer replaced the compressor. Problem solved.

I didn't have to mention TSB or fight with the dealer over getting mine fixed. One day, out of the blue, the a/c was blowing warm air...took it in, and the dealer replaced the compressor. Problem solved.

Well, that's a rather obvious failure. Pretty hard for a tech to say that it was within spec when it didn't make cold air at all.

The TSB addresses a weak AC system, and the sticking point is that Toyota's functional test is rather complicated to perform. I've yet to hear of any tech determining the relative humidity, which is the first step of Toyota's test procedure. Even the weak early Scion AC systems will make nice cold air at low blower speeds and cool outside air temperatures! Change the test conditions to the ones that Toyota specifies and I'll bet that few early Scions will be within spec.

Did they also replace the evaporator per the TSB, or did they just replace the compressor?

I took some temperatures today on my AC. At an inlet temperature of 83 degrees, I was getting 51F air out of the outlets with everything set according to Toyota's test instructions. Unfortunately, the relative humidity was only 19%, under the Toyota's test minimum of 30%. However, according to Toyota's chart of acceptable temperature differences, lower humidity should produce a greater difference in temperature.

At 30% humidity, Toyota's specification says that the temperature difference should be 19.5C to 25.5C (35.1F to 45.9F)

This would mean that the outlet temperature should have been between 37.1F and 47.9F. The value I actually measured (51F) was above this range. Even worse, the lower humidity should have yielded slightly lower temperatures. Extrapolating the maximum and minimum curves of Toyota's acceptable temperature graph to 20% humidity yields an acceptable outlet temperature range of 34.4F to 44.3F. The measured temperature value is 6.7F above this range. a significant difference.

I'm hoping that tomorrow I'll get temperature and humidity within Toyota's test values. The problem in my part of SoCal, is that by the time the temperature is in Toyota's test range, the humidity goes too low!


OK, more data at 27% relative humidity, pretty close to Toyota's minimum of 30%

I took the temps in Celsius, as this is what Toyota uses and it is a pain converting everything to Farenheit.

Again, this is with everything set per the Toyota procedure: Car stationary, in shade, driver's door open, engine at operating temperature at 2000RPM, blower on high, outlets set to face only, AC on, temperatures stabilized and measured at inlet and outlet by digital thermometers. Humidity was measured by a Davis electronic weather sensor.

Inlet temperature: 30.0C
Outlet Temperature: 13.2C
Outside Relative Humidity: 27%

Temperature difference: 16.8C

Toyota's specified temperature difference: 20C to 25C at 30% relative humidity.

Clearly, my xB cools air, but it doesn't meet spec.

My xB is an 05, but an earlier one (delivered 7/29/04) and it is applicable under the first case with the accessory kit. I should also note, that while highly unlikely, this TSB is not valid for anyone with more that 36,000 miles.

Correct. You need to still be within the 36 mo./36K miles limits of the regular warranty.

suck.

I didn't have to mention TSB or fight with the dealer over getting mine fixed. One day, out of the blue, the a/c was blowing warm air...took it in, and the dealer replaced the compressor. Problem solved.



Did they also replace the evaporator per the TSB, or did they just replace the compressor?

IDK. It blows cold so I didn't read all the paperwork, they may have only replaced the compressor.

just take it apart yourself
it isnt that hard. the airbox is right under/ behind the glovebox.

I agree with hotbox....take apart the system, clean it out, and then take it in for the TSB. I wonder if the current checks were done and tagged to your vin? But if you "paid someone else" to do the work and the system does not work correctly because of the TSB problem, does that matter? Would the mouse cancel your warranty?? And how the heck did a rat get into your AC? Was it fresh or dried out? Any chance it was a japanese rat that got into your car on the ship to the US and just eventually worked its way into your blower...

Last year I noticed the a/c was a little weak, but I tend not to use it much so I just ignored it. This year with the 2 weeks of 90+ weather and humdity the a/c was so weak that I had to blast it on max to get any results and finally had to give it up when I got stuck in traffic as it just wouldn't keep up.

I found this thread, looked at the TSB AC007-04 and found my VIN falls under the
Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and Air Conditioner Additional Kit section.

I went outside and put a thermometer to the a/c vents. The temp outside when I tested was about 65 degrees. After 5 min at full blast the temp was only blowing at 49 degrees. So I can imagine what it would blow if the outside temp was 90.

The car goes in the shop on Monday for an evaluation. I'll post the results.

http--tis.toyota.com-ileaf-toytsb-toytspdf-tsbrules-tsbrule1-ac007t04.pdf

At the risk of sounding like a total idiot, I discovered that in the tC having recirculation on makes a much bigger difference than it does in the xB. I knew that in the xB having recirc on helped but not that much, so I wasn't using it in the tC. One day I was stuck behind a garbage truck or something so I turned the recirc on to keep the smell out. I forgot about it and left it on and noticed that the A/C was blowing impressively colder.

So just maybe it can handle 115 F after all. It is not having much trouble with 95F with recirc on.

the fuji is ____ed.

i left it a dealer with INSTRUCTIONS on the TSB . they called back and said they found nothing. im ____ed its hot and humid and the TSB was not fixed. i called scion before i left it at the dealer and they confirmed my VIN was for the ac TSB. but the delear said that to go back if i wanted. ( such BS ) on monday im calling scion and complain..last week i was out on business and did not need the xb for nothing. so now i do and imma suffer the bad weather.

Well I took my car to the dealer today for the a/c problem. I noted that my vin falls within the TSB vin range. Without a problem they ordered the parts and will call me when they come in. Great service!

they better have the parts in stock. i made another appointment and asked them to make sure they had them in stock and they said..nope they will check when i take the car in..sucks to be me right now..

gettin my ac done tomorrow. theyll replace the second set of components on the TSB as my car falls into the latter group of VINs. I took mine in on Wednesday of last week, had it evaluated, and baddabing! its happening for me. it also helped that my A/C only got down to 60 degrees at full blast on recirc. ill let ya'll know how it turns out.

Well I picked up the box yesterday and today it was pretty humid. I noticed a big difference. Finally.,

got mine done, and there is a difference. BUT, my car still takes awhile to cool off. the dealer told me two things are happening, one: my car is black and therefore a heat-magnet and two: my windows arent tinted. ive started opening the hatch before i get in and rolling down the windows concurrently and also putting a solar shade in the dash. it helps somewhat.

Getting mine done Friday.

so much for relief.... now at random the A/C just cuts out. The A/C button is depressed and the green light is on. Get the car up to highway speed and sooner or later it just stops blowing cold air. I've had to turn off the unit, let it rest a few mminutes then afterwards it blows cold again for a while.

It goes back into the shop on Monday. Grrrrrrrr.

OK it looks like I may not be getting mine done.

The dealer let me know that my VIN is not applicable. The TSB reads:

Start of Production to JTLKT3#4*50190681 - Air Conditioner Accessory Assembly and Air Conditioner Additional Kit

JTLKT3#4*50190681 to Present - Air Conditioner Additional Kit ONLY AC4005

My VIN is JTLKT324950187xxx

It seems to me that if my VIN is lower than the number listed then I should be between the start of production and the VIN listed. Additionally, if they do not count up, shouldn't they still give me the A/C Additional Kit? He did say they were going to check out its performance, but with this hurricane, we have only been in the low 80s, so it may get cold enough for them, but it is certainly not cold when the temperature is 90+.

Are they confused/lying?

Hmmmmmm...

Your VIN certainly falls within the VIN range affected - it appears to be an "early 2005" vehicle. When was it manufactured? (On the data decal on the driver's door frame.)

If the dealer refuses to consider it within the TSB range, I'd certainly call Scion Corporate and ask them...and insist that someone give me a call back with a proper answer if the answering person was unable to provide you with an answer other than 'see your Scion dealer.'

Keep in mind that there are TWO A/C TSBs for the xB, AC002-04 and AC007-04. Your xB does not seem to fall into the VIN range for 002, but DOES for 007. They may have errored by only checking against the one TSB...

Remember, too, as George said in an earlier post:

BTW, there is no single "magic temperature" for the AC to be "within spec" The repair manual test specifies the following:

(Repair Manual, page 55-4)

1. Cowl Inlet temperature (that's OAT) must be between 25C and 30C (That's 77F to 86F)

2. The technician must determine relative humidity by using a wet/dry bulb thermometer at the air inlet and consulting a psychrometric chart. Relative humidity must be between 30% and 70%

3. The vehicle must be stopped, in the shade, the door fully open, the AC switch on, engine at 2000RPM, inlet switch to outside air, outlet switch to face outlets only, temperature on max cold, blower on high, and high side pressure gauge at 1.5MPa.

4. The correct difference between the inlet and outlet temperatures is found by consulting another chart in the manual:
At 30% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 19.5C to 25C. (35.1-45F)
At 40% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 18C to 22,5C. (32.4-40.5F)-
At 50% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 16C to 21.5C. (28.8-38.7F)
At 60% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 14C to 19.5C. (25.2-35.1F)
At 70% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 12C to 18C. (21.6-32.4F)


So, let's say that it's 80 degrees outside and the humidity is 40% The temperature difference is 32.4-40.5F, so the AC is OK if the outlet temperature is somewhere between 39.5F and 47.6F.

As you can see, the system cannot even be tested unless the outside temperature is between 77F and 86F. One also wonders if there are any Toyota technicians outside of Japan who can actually perform the psychrometric determination of relative humidity _and_ who have the equipment and motivation to do so.

Good luck!

Hmmmmmm...

Your VIN certainly falls within the VIN range affected - it appears to be an "early 2005" vehicle. When was it manufactured? (On the data decal on the driver's door frame.)

If the dealer refuses to consider it within the TSB range, I'd certainly call Scion Corporate and ask them...and insist that someone give me a call back with a proper answer if the answering person was unable to provide you with an answer other than 'see your Scion dealer.'

Keep in mind that there are TWO A/C TSBs for the xB, AC002-04 and AC007-04. Your xB does not seem to fall into the VIN range for 002, but DOES for 007. They may have errored by only checking against the one TSB...

Remember, too, as George said in an earlier post:

Good luck!

Thanks, Tomas

It is in fact an early 2005, manufactured in June, 2004 and arriving July 29, 2005 (just happens to be my birthday-pure luck, that's when the car arrived)

It does look like we will be within the suggested temperature range for testing on Friday. When I go in on Friday to drop off the car I'll have the service guy explain why I'm not covered again. He was looking off the 007 TSB, which I did see a copy of in his hand. If he still claims that I'm not covered, I'll ask for a second opinion in-house before moving on to corporate. Hopefully they will find a deficient A/C so I won't have to do that.

I don't believe they are trying to screw me, I just think the guy was confused, although it seems pretty cut and dry to me. It just sucks that I know the parts are not on order now, so if they do find a fault, I'll have to go back. They did order the parts, but cancelled when they thought my VIN wasn't elegible.

On a side note, they should be fixing the hood rattle, the left fog vs. CAI, and wearing floormats, so hopefully this won't be a wasted trip.

p.s. My a/c smells like real bad (like a wet shirt has been sitting in my car), when I first turn the a/c on. Is that common??

Sounds like you've got some mold in the evap housing or something. It's said that if you use the re-cycle a/c too much it can cause excess debris into the vent system which allows build up and can eventually turn to mold. Anyway you should probably get it looked at, they have to do an air circulation thing to clean the system out and get rid of the condensation and mold build up inside. If your under warranty it should probably be covered.

:doh: Man, I just bought my xB. I have less than 600mi. Should I start checkin this out? Or has this been resolved on brand new ones. I brought it home with 3mi on it. :pray:

Jason, the newer xB's have all the 'fixes' resolved on the assembly line at the factory. The older ones with poor A/C performance are just being brought up to current xB performance levels.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you have a problem - this looks like a good week to test it. :)

Congrats on the new box!

:tap: Ok so I have an 04 xB and I have noticed that the ac sux, and so I took it to the dealer ship and asked about the tsb report and my my box has 46,000 miles on it they said I would have to pay to get it fixed :doh: . They gave me a number to call Toyota service and talk to them about it, They said that they would pay half of the cost to fix it. I went and got an estiment, and I would be paying close to 700 dollars on my part to get it fixed! I thoght ther ac sucked when I bout it last year but I had got used to it and did not think any more about it until I found out about it a couple of weeks ago. what is a man to do?
any ideas, or who else to talk to? :pray:

Gothbox, the TSB only covers fixing it for the warranty period, so they were actually giving you a little break by offering to pay half.

This might be one of the few times where the 'extended warranty' packages might actually have helped.

Maybe someone else can come up with some way to get them to cover the fix - I just don't have any ideas.

I just got back from the dealer. They were confused, my VIN is covered, and they ordered the parts. Tha bad news...they have to come from Japan, and are on backorder. Apparently there are none in the country.

I did get my floormats replaced, they'll be in on Tuesday. The hood/engine rattle could not be replicated by them or me. The tech did say he bent the heatshields around the exhaust to give more clearance. It did seem to be a quieter ride on bumpy roads.

I got mine done. The service writer will love to do this because it pays them a lot of money. When I took mine in they were really fighting over which writer was going to get it because the pay is great on this job. I even got asked by one writer how come I did not give him the repair. So take it in a talk to the service writer and tell him this job will pay him alot of money and I'm sure they will be happy to do the work with no ?'s asked..

Also the good part... ALL FOR FREE

I got mine done. The service writer will love to do this because it pays them a lot of money. When I took mine in they were really fighting over which writer was going to get it because the pay is great on this job. I even got asked by one writer how come I did not give him the repair. So take it in a talk to the service writer and tell him this job will pay him alot of money and I'm sure they will be happy to do the work with no ?'s asked..

Why is the pay high on this? Is it because the labor is involved and they will get paid for 4 (or whatever's suggested) hours work and may be able to get the job done in 2?

Gothbox, the TSB only covers fixing it for the warranty period, so they were actually giving you a little break by offering to pay half.

This might be one of the few times where the 'extended warranty' packages might actually have helped.

Maybe someone else can come up with some way to get them to cover the fix - I just don't have any ideas.

That is my prob. The TSB report came out in Sept. and I had already goneover my warranty at that time. :cry:

Gothbox, did you at any time before going over 36K take your box into the dealer for A/C questions, or at least have them look at the A/C while it was in for something else?

If so, the TSB coming out late may not let them off the hook - there have been other instances of manufacturers not coming out with a fix (or even admitting a problem) until after some of the vehicles were beyond the mileage limits. For those, if the dealer had looked at the vehicle for the problem prior to the issue of the tech service bulletin, that point in time was taken as when the TSB should have been fixed, had the TSB existed.

It's a long shot, I know, but DID you have it into the dealer prior to 36K at some point, and did you ask about the A/C then?

I never said anything to the dealership about my ac, I did think that it suxed a litte but I was just going to deal with it. this is my first car out of 4 that had working ac so I left it alone. But now that I know that there is a prob, I would like to get it fixed, at not my cost. I don't see why I should have to pay for something that I did not tear up, and they knew was a prob. :tap:

Well I had mine replaced and it broke. The dealer can't figure it out and now needs to wait until Monday to call someone from Toyota to help figure it out! With the old set up it was weak but at least I had SOMETHING, With the "fix" I have no ac at all!

Mine's finally in the shop. Apparently it's either a two-day job or they screwed up. In any case, I'm rollin in a Corolla.

wow so how is everone else doing with this TSB been thinking of doing it at our dealer...

Mine's finally in the shop. Apparently it's either a two-day job or they screwed up. In any case, I'm rollin in a Corolla.

I have a loaner COrolla too. Mine is an '05 LE, with sunroof, 8-spk JBL system...AND A POWERFUL AC than the xB.

I hesitated a bit after reading the entire replacement TSB. Concerned that someone would skip a step or two and make it worse. But since I am nearing my 36,000 mile warranty limit, I gotta use it.

It may take a while to get it fix since the part(s) is not easily available. I dont mind, the 'Rolla AC is cold compared to the xB.

Mine's finally in the shop. Apparently it's either a two-day job or they screwed up. In any case, I'm rollin in a Corolla.

I have a loaner COrolla too. Mine is an '05 LE, with sunroof, 8-spk JBL system...AND A POWERFUL AC than the xB.

I hesitated a bit after reading the entire replacement TSB. Concerned that someone would skip a step or two and make it worse. But since I am nearing my 36,000 mile warranty limit, I gotta use it.

It may take a while to get it fix since the part(s) is not easily available. I dont mind, the 'Rolla AC is cold compared to the xB.

Dang, Mine's a CE. No sunroof, poor stereo. It is a nice car, but it feels much more like a FWD car than the xB. I should have mine back tomorrow. And yes, the A/C is quite cold.

Danica Patrick is hot.

I got mine back, and let me say WOW. That A/C is freakin cold. It's 90 out and reasonably humid. The A/C dominated. I love it.

Glad to hear that about the A/C, and, uh, Happy Birthday! :)

it's about time this thread went to the maintenance section.

Glad to hear that about the A/C, and, uh, Happy Birthday! :)

Thanks. I am celebrating accordingly.

Is this Vin # affected?
JTLKT334940157682

Well, here's 'Page One' of the TSB that lists exactly which VINs fall within it. This is the same image posted earlier IN THIS SAME THREAD... :lalala:

http://tijil.org/TSB.jpg

Your VIN, JTLKT334940157682, ===> DOES <=== fall within this range of numbers for the full TSB, AND for the earlier A/C TSB.

That means all three different segments of the adjustment and upgrading to current production parts apply to your box, *IF* your box has less than 36,000 miles on it when you first bring this problem up to them, and *IF* your box has this problem.

This means Toyota will pay for roughly six hours of labor and all the new parts if you have the problem...

__________________

(1) I will keep my posts relevant, helpful and family friendly.
(2) I will use the search feature before posting a question. <===
(3) If I start a new thread I will place it in the right forum.
(4) I WILL NOT TYPE IN ALL CAPS. :)
__________________

Does anyone have the list of what exactly needs to be replaced to improve the ac performance? I kept thinking my ac was weak and finally took my car to a dealr but was told "This car was purchased 3 years and 4 months ago and warranty is expired even though its mileage is less than 36K miles". If possible, I want to work on it by myself. I have no money to pay $$$ to a dealer.

http://tijil.org/Scion_TSBs/ac00704r.pdf

http://tijil.org/Scion_TSBs/00_tsb_list.html

Tom

Tomas, Thank you for your reply. My god! This is much more complicated than my expectation. I wish I acted quicker. Now it is too late. Well, at least I am not in Arizona.

Tomas, Thank you for your reply. My god! This is much more complicated than my expectation. I wish I acted quicker. Now it is too late. Well, at least I am not in Arizona.
Ok, i came in late on this, and i came in from another thread.... when did they stop doing the warranty work on the TSB? ....(Tomas???) Also..Ive got an extended warranty 7 years or 70k miles...you think it'd still be covered?

The TSB itself calls out in detail the mileage/time limitations:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in
effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s
in-service date.

If your vehicle is beyond those mileage/time limits, the repair will no longer be done "free."

Tom

D@mn.

The TSB itself calls out in detail the mileage/time limitations:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in
effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s
in-service date.

If your vehicle is beyond those mileage/time limits, the repair will no longer be done "free."


However, there is nothing to be lost by taking your car in to the dealer and asking them about it. Some Toyota dealers bend over backwards to make customers happy.

Unfortunately, my dealer (Frontier Toyota, Valencia, California) goes the other way. They actively discourage any warranty or TSB work. They even told me, to my face, that my car wasn't covered for the A/C TSB even though I had the TSB document and my VIN right in front of them. They tried to confuse me about the VIN, but I had already decoded the number and knew exactly where I stood. I had to take the issue to the service manager before they relented and did the work.

BTW, Toyota corporate was no help at all. All they said in response to my inquiry abou t whether my car was covered was "the dealer will verify whether your car is affected by the TSB or not." Thanks for nothing, Toyota.

This dealer did exactly the same thing with the fuel tank and filler TSB. I took the car in and went through the same "your car isn't covered" BS. They finally relented, kept the car for two days and replaced the fuel filler only, even though the TSB called for the tank to be replaced. Anticipating something of this sort, I had marked all the parts to make sure that they were replaced. It took another hassle and two days without my car for them to finally do the job as specified in the TSB.

I like my Scion, but this dealer's service has put a bad taste in my mouth.

George