Has anyone tried collecting on the air conditioning TSB?
06-17-2005, 10:27 PM
#41
Heh, when I used to live in Ft. Worth I had two cars with A/C in them - a Volvo 122S with an aftermarket unit from some outfit in Dallas, and a Plymouth Barracuda coupe with top end factory air (Climate Control).
Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...
The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.
The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.
The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.
These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.
Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...
The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.
The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.
The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.
These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.
06-19-2005, 07:34 PM
#42
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Los Angeles County
Posts: 2,627
Originally Posted by Tomas
Well, I asked that it be checked and it was - on a day that had a peak temp under 70F later on, it allegedly tested "OK" by blowing 46F air out it's vents in the early afternoon. (And yes, mine is within the S/N range covered by the TSB...)
No corrective work was done 'cause the tech felt that 46F output with the outside air in the 60's and the car not warm from being in the sun or whatever was just fine.
No corrective work was done 'cause the tech felt that 46F output with the outside air in the 60's and the car not warm from being in the sun or whatever was just fine.
Needless to say, i won't go in for the AC TSB until it is 100F+ out.
BTW, there is no single "magic temperature" for the AC to be "within spec" The repair manual test specifies the following:
(Repair Manual, page 55-4)
1. Cowl Inlet temperature (that's OAT) must be between 25C and 30C (That's 77F to 86F)
2. The technician must determine relative humidity by using a wet/dry bulb thermometer at the air inlet and consulting a psychrometric chart. Relative humidity must be between 30% and 70%
3. The vehicle must be stopped, in the shade, the door fully open, the AC switch on, engine at 2000RPM, inlet switch to outside air, outlet switch to face outlets only, temperature on max cold, blower on high, and high side pressure gauge at 1.5MPa.
4. The correct difference between the inlet and outlet temperatures is found by consulting another chart in the manual:
At 30% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 19.5C to 25C. (35.1-45F)
At 40% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 18C to 22,5C. (32.4-40.5F)-
At 50% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 16C to 21.5C. (28.8-38.7F)
At 60% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 14C to 19.5C. (25.2-35.1F)
At 70% relative humidity, the difference between inlet and outlet temperature should be 12C to 18C. (21.6-32.4F)
So, let's say that it's 80 degrees outside and the humidity is 40% The temperature difference is 32.4-40.5F, so the AC is OK if the outlet temperature is somewhere between 39.5F and 47.6F.
As you can see, the system cannot even be tested unless the outside temperature is between 77F and 86F. One also wonders if there are any Toyota technicians outside of Japan who can actually perform the psychrometric determination of relative humidity _and_ who have the equipment and motivation to do so.
If they're going to play the "46 degrees is the magic number" game, just pick the right day to take the car in. Even a car that is within spec according to the Toyota test procedure would be blowing air much warmer than 46F on a hot, humid day!
Make sure that they test the system with the blower on high as specified. More air will yield a higher air temperature.
George
06-19-2005, 11:44 PM
#43
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Los Angeles County
Posts: 2,627
Originally Posted by Tomas
Heh, when I used to live in Ft. Worth I had two cars with A/C in them - a Volvo 122S with an aftermarket unit from some outfit in Dallas, and a Plymouth Barracuda coupe with top end factory air (Climate Control).
Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...
The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.
The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.
The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.
These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.
Both would frost the A/C vents on a 106F day...
The Volvo would actually slow down on the highway every time the A/C compressor would kick in - massive thing, but effective.
The Scion A/C units appear much meeker.
The unit in the tC does NOT come under any current TSB, only some of the earlier production xA and xB models. Even the later production xA/xB units already have the fixes in the TSB included on the production line.
These just aren't the brutal 10HP, freon refigerant, high pressure A/C units of old.
I believe that the weakness in the Scion's AC system has a lot to do with the fact that the Scion was originally intended to be a JDM vehicle only. The AC was designed to handle Japan's climate (typical August high in Tokyo is 88F) and obviously will not be able to handle the 100F+ temps common in the southern US.
Some JDM features aren't so desirable!
George
06-20-2005, 12:23 AM
#45
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,183
I posted a thread a few weeks ago asking xB owners to post temps of the air comming out of thier vents. I reported between 45-47 degrees on a 75 degree day.
I think my a/c is cold enough, and i certainly dont want the front end of my xB taken apart on the prospect of a few degrees cooler.
And it sounds like to me that alot of people who had the tsb performed didnt go below 45 degrees anyways......
I think my a/c is cold enough, and i certainly dont want the front end of my xB taken apart on the prospect of a few degrees cooler.
And it sounds like to me that alot of people who had the tsb performed didnt go below 45 degrees anyways......
06-20-2005, 12:46 AM
#46
I don't like others dismantaling the front of my box either, UnFocused, but my A/C will put out 45-48 degree air at low-medium fan speed on a 65 degree day - that does NOT seem reasonable...
06-20-2005, 01:46 AM
#47
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Tomas, I think you should cool it (ha ha ha) until it gets warm out there in the Northwest. I remember being dismayed at my 1998 Subaru's A/C when I first tried it, because it didn't freeze my butt off on a mild day. It turned out to do just fine when the weather got hot. My xB's A/C also doesn't overchill me on mild days, but it's been adequate during our few hot days so far this year. I do have to run the blower at a higher speed than I'm used to with other cars. E.g. on any day with sun, the lowest fan position isn't enough. But I guess that isn't surprising, considering the interior volume.
06-20-2005, 04:02 AM
#48
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Los Angeles County
Posts: 2,627
Originally Posted by Tomas
I don't like others dismantaling the front of my box either, UnFocused, but my A/C will put out 45-48 degree air at low-medium fan speed on a 65 degree day - that does NOT seem reasonable...
At higher blower settings it is much harder to get the air cooled, as it is only in contact with the evaporator for a very short time. That's why the Toyota test instructions say to run the blower on high.
I took some temperatures today on my AC. At an inlet temperature of 83 degrees, I was getting 51F air out of the outlets with everything set according to Toyota's test instructions. Unfortunately, the relative humidity was only 19%, under the Toyota's test minimum of 30%. However, according to Toyota's chart of acceptable temperature differences, lower humidity should produce a greater difference in temperature.
At 30% humidity, Toyota's specification says that the temperature difference should be 19.5C to 25.5C (35.1F to 45.9F)
This would mean that the outlet temperature should have been between 37.1F and 47.9F. The value I actually measured (51F) was above this range. Even worse, the lower humidity should have yielded slightly lower temperatures. Extrapolating the maximum and minimum curves of Toyota's acceptable temperature graph to 20% humidity yields an acceptable outlet temperature range of 34.4F to 44.3F. The measured temperature value is 6.7F above this range. a significant difference.
I'm hoping that tomorrow I'll get temperature and humidity within Toyota's test values. The problem in my part of SoCal, is that by the time the temperature is in Toyota's test range, the humidity goes too low!
Now, some folks might say "it's only six degrees, why worry about it? Well, I worry, because the Xb has a large passenger volume, so it has to cool a _lot_ of air at high temperatures. Also, AC systems tend to work less well with age, so a barely-adequate system now will slowly turn into an inadequate system in a couple of years.
06-20-2005, 04:49 AM
#49
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 951 - Near Pechanga
Posts: 857
how would one present this to the dealership...
i am in quite a predicament.
i'll try to sum it up short:
my xb is said to have a rodent in the ac system, said by the toyota serv. dept techs, all chopped up by the fan.
they told me to do to fix the problem it would cost me 1200+
i called my insurance; it is covered under accidental. resulting in a 500 deductible at another local shop.
my appt to bring it to the shop is tomorrow (monday) @ 8a
reading this, i would rather much bring my box into the dealership and have the manufacturers pay for the repairs...
would having the stated problem by the techs null my chances to have the TSB done?
should i postpone my appt at the shop and figure this out.
help would greatly appreciated and save me hundreds of dollars.
please PM me or AIM me. any info would be great.
and how should i present this TSB to the dealership?
FYI: Temecula Toyota/Scion has the worst cust. serv as far as the serv dept goes.
sen-
i am in quite a predicament.
i'll try to sum it up short:
my xb is said to have a rodent in the ac system, said by the toyota serv. dept techs, all chopped up by the fan.
they told me to do to fix the problem it would cost me 1200+
i called my insurance; it is covered under accidental. resulting in a 500 deductible at another local shop.
my appt to bring it to the shop is tomorrow (monday) @ 8a
reading this, i would rather much bring my box into the dealership and have the manufacturers pay for the repairs...
would having the stated problem by the techs null my chances to have the TSB done?
should i postpone my appt at the shop and figure this out.
help would greatly appreciated and save me hundreds of dollars.
please PM me or AIM me. any info would be great.
and how should i present this TSB to the dealership?
FYI: Temecula Toyota/Scion has the worst cust. serv as far as the serv dept goes.
sen-
06-20-2005, 06:56 AM
#55
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 951 - Near Pechanga
Posts: 857
it blows okay...
i purchased my box at the end of 03...
that does not guarantee TSB qualification?
or do they have to run tests to "see if you qualify" kind of crap..
thanks for the feed hot
sen-
i purchased my box at the end of 03...
that does not guarantee TSB qualification?
or do they have to run tests to "see if you qualify" kind of crap..
thanks for the feed hot
sen-
06-20-2005, 07:11 AM
#57
Sensez, the AC007-04 TSB essentially has nothing to do with the blower inside the vehicle - it add/replaces some internal switches and such, replaces the radiator and compressor, etc.
The wordng on the TSB says: "** Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint. " So if one does not complain one doesn't get the fix...
If your A/C doesn't cool well enough, you might need the TSB, but the TSB won't dismantle, clean, and reassemble the interior blower assembly - that's yours, I'm afraid.
Good luck!
(That's page one of twenty-seven...)
The wordng on the TSB says: "** Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint. " So if one does not complain one doesn't get the fix...
If your A/C doesn't cool well enough, you might need the TSB, but the TSB won't dismantle, clean, and reassemble the interior blower assembly - that's yours, I'm afraid.
Good luck!
(That's page one of twenty-seven...)
