My dealer says I might as well buy the shocks since I'll have to pay the labor costs to have them removed in order for the springs to be installed. Anyone care to argue differently? Are the shocks necessary? How much of a difference do they make?

The shocks/struts do NOT have to be removed in order to install lowering springs. The TRD springs lower the car just a little over an inch, so I don't think you'll need new struts/shocks just yet. Get the TRD springs installed, and when the stock struts and shocks wear out, upgrade then. Also, shop around on the labor costs to install those springs. The dealer wanted $400 labor to install the springs, and a 4-wheel alignment was extra. I went to a local tire shop, and got mine installed, with an alignment, for $180. BTW, I had to have them use the alignment specs on an Echo, because they didn't have anything in their system for a 2005 Scion xB.

Good luck

wow, lots of good info.. thnx!

I just called a local scion dealer and got a ballpark of $400 labor. I don't think so. I suppose I'll be calling some local tire shops as recomended

The shocks/struts do NOT have to be removed in order to install lowering springs. The TRD springs lower the car just a little over an inch, so I don't think you'll need new struts/shocks just yet. Get the TRD springs installed, and when the stock struts and shocks wear out, upgrade then. Also, shop around on the labor costs to install those springs. The dealer wanted $400 labor to install the springs, and a 4-wheel alignment was extra. I went to a local tire shop, and got mine installed, with an alignment, for $180. BTW, I had to have them use the alignment specs on an Echo, because they didn't have anything in their system for a 2005 Scion xB.

Good luck
Actually, the shocks and struts do need to be removed. The front springs wrap around the strut, so you can't get them out any other way. The rear shocks are what keeps the springs from coming loose at full extension, and the repair manual says to remove the shocks to replace the springs. We are putting TRD shocks, struts, and springs on our xA TRAC car, and our service dept. is only going to charge us labor for the shocks and struts, because its almost the same operation. $180 including an alignment is a really good deal.

You might want to double check on the alignment. The alignment specs are slightly different, but I don't know enough to say if it makes a big difference.

$180 for a spring install is rediculous. I do them all the time for $50. takes 35 minutes.

$180 for a spring install is rediculous. I do them all the time for $50. takes 35 minutes.

Dude, if you can change springs on a xA/xB in 35 minutes, you need to go get a job at a dealership. Toyota's book time for all four springs is 4.1 hours!

$180 for a spring install is rediculous. I do them all the time for $50. takes 35 minutes.

Dude, if you can change springs on a xA/xB in 35 minutes, you need to go get a job at a dealership. Toyota's book time for all four springs is 4.1 hours!
4.1 hours is nuts. Have you seen how easy they are to install? The rear is maybe 5 minutes including putting the car up on the jack stands. You dont even have to pull the back wheels off.

if you were to go through the shop here it is $439.99 + tax. thats for the springs and alignment. i think that is crazy. $180-$200 wouldn't be a bad price to pay if you know it is going to get right.

if you were to go through the shop here it is $439.99 + tax. thats for the springs and alignment. i think that is crazy. $180-$200 wouldn't be a bad price to pay if you know it is going to get right.
are you saying i dont know what i'm doing? 8) 32 scion spring installs with no complaints...

if you were to go through the shop here it is $439.99 + tax. thats for the springs and alignment. i think that is crazy. $180-$200 wouldn't be a bad price to pay if you know it is going to get right.
are you saying i dont know what i'm doing? 8) 32 scion spring installs with no complaints...

i'm not saying you don't know what you are doing. i'm just saying that people will pay that much for spring installs here. if you do it for $50 awesome, thats a deal. there aren't a lot of places here to get them done. so people come in and pay $440 for it to get done.

if you were to go through the shop here it is $439.99 + tax. thats for the springs and alignment. i think that is crazy. $180-$200 wouldn't be a bad price to pay if you know it is going to get right.
are you saying i dont know what i'm doing? 8) 32 scion spring installs with no complaints...
I don't have enough technical knowledge to say that you're not doing it right. However, the Toyota Repair Manual list many steps to doing even just the rear springs. This includes taking off the wheel, disconnecting the ABS sensor and brake line, removing the shock, and loosening the rear axle beam, among other things.

So like I said, I can't say for sure, but your customers could have warranty issues if its not done the way Toyota(Scion) says, even though its not likely.

This includes taking off the wheel, disconnecting the ABS sensor and brake line, removing the shock, and loosening the rear axle beam, among other things.

Believe me...That's insane..Im sure everyone that had done their own installs can vouch for me that you dont have to take all that off to remove the springs....I could change out the rear springs with a simple ratchet and a jack...

Those are probably more of a safey precaution, but Ive installed 3 sets of springs in the rear of my car and have never had any problems.

OH yeah..one more thing....What a RIP off! 4.1 hours?! Even rookies can pull it off in 2 hours! Is that why it cost so much to do a service on the car because they sit around for 3.6 hours and go..ok yeah that looks good.

I stand corrected on the springs. The shop DID have to remove the front struts in order to install the springs. I remember telling them about the Hotchkiss STB I had in there, and watching them use that spring compressor gizmo on the fronts. But on the rear, if memory serves me right, the rear struts do NOT go thru the rear springs, so they're very simple to swap out. One of the local tire shops here quoted me a labor rate of what it would take to install new struts, which worked out to $80 per corner, plus the alignment. And the dealer wanted close to $500 for labor and alignment. Shop around, I'm sure you can find someplace cheaper, that has experience doing that kind of thing. There's no reason why it should cost that much to get these springs installed...

$180 for a spring install is rediculous. I do them all the time for $50. takes 35 minutes.

Dude, if you can change springs on a xA/xB in 35 minutes, you need to go get a job at a dealership. Toyota's book time for all four springs is 4.1 hours!

Hence why flat rate pay = 100k/year for techs!!!

Jeff

Yeah, most dealers are going to just quote you book time, times whatever their labor rate happens to be. And yes, a good tech can probably do the whole thing in less than 3 hours, even following the manual exactly. When you shop around, just make sure you are dealing with a reputable place that will stand behind their work.

if you were to go through the shop here it is $439.99 + tax. thats for the springs and alignment. i think that is crazy. $180-$200 wouldn't be a bad price to pay if you know it is going to get right.
are you saying i dont know what i'm doing? 8) 32 scion spring installs with no complaints...
I don't have enough technical knowledge to say that you're not doing it right. However, the Toyota Repair Manual list many steps to doing even just the rear springs. This includes taking off the wheel, disconnecting the ABS sensor and brake line, removing the shock, and loosening the rear axle beam, among other things.

So like I said, I can't say for sure, but your customers could have warranty issues if its not done the way Toyota(Scion) says, even though its not likely.

Toyota/scion will not void your warranty if the springs are replaced by another shop. I have done the majority of the northern cali scions and all have gone back to the dealer for their oil changes with no ugly looks at them. Replacing the springs does not take 4 hours. But I am sure the techs need their coffee break after the first rear spring. :lol: