GeoUSA

I remember Toyota plans to eventually hybridize many models. Just saw where a more efficient hybrid than Prius may appear for 2011. What do you think are the chances it may be based on the Yaris/xD family?

It would line up with a refresh and we already have similar gas engines to the new Prius. Maybe this will be the first platform to introduce/test Toyotas smaller and lighter lithium-based batteries? Even if smaller, there would be a challenge finding space for the batts. The figure below is only a 5% improvement over the 3rd gen Prius but the sales price of $15,600 implies a more economical car... Hmm...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ap6jwUgdrGV8

Toyota to Sell Hybrid With Better Fuel Economy, Yomiuri Says


By Tak Kumakura
Aug. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. will start selling as early as 2011 hybrid vehicles that are more fuel efficient than Prius, the Yomiuri newspaper reported, without saying where it obtained the information.
The compact hybrid runs more than 40 kilometers on 1 liter of gasoline, compared with 38 kilometers for Prius. The vehicle will probably be priced at 1.5 million yen ($15,600) in Japan, the newspaper said.

808-213-503

"The small gasoline-electric car being planned will be a low-priced spinoff of the Toyota Yaris, said Akihiko Otsuka, chief engineer of the redesigned, third-generation Toyota Prius." - Autoweek, 3/26/09

"The new model to be built using key parts from the auto maker's Vitz subcompact model, also known as Yaris in Europe, will be sold in Japan and overseas markets including the U.S. and Europe, the daily reported.

The new hybrid car will be priced around Y1.5 million, the report said. Toyota's lowest-priced Prius model carries a Y2.05 million sticker price." - Marketwatch, 8/12/09

That's $15,625 USD, at today's 96 yen to 1 US dollar. I'd venture to guess, the answer to your question is 'no' to xD being hybridized.

mcbrew

Well, he didn't ask if the xD was going to be hybridized... he asked if the Yaris/xD "family" was going to be hybridized. So, the answer would be yes. When they say it is a "spin-off" of the Yaris, we can pretty much assume it will be the same basic chassis, but a different body. I would bet it won't look like the Yaris or xD... but it should share many parts. I'm guessing the engine will be smaller than the xD's 1.8L, which is already "big" for a car this size. They don't even get the 1.8L in Europe for the xD (Urban Cruiser)... they get either a 1.3L gasser or a 1.4L turbodiesel. Of course, Toyota has already used the basic 1.8L block in the Prius with a modified Atkinson cycle. Maybe they plan on doing that to a smaller engine?

808-213-503

True. My bad.

CXTKRS1

Impressive, these little cars already do pretty good on gas so it will be interesting to see what a hybrid version can do. Maybe give the Volt a little competition.

mcbrew

I don't think we're anywhere close to comparing to a Volt (we'd need to be getting about 1000% better fuel economy to be in the ballpark), but the 1.4L turbodiesel xD that's available in Europe gets an average of 48 MPG (US). Probably gets a good deal better than that if driven properly.

Davestoaster

I wouldn't bet on that just yet.

So far, only GM itself has stated any mileage numbers on the Volt. No one has been able to independently check those mileage claims, that I know of. And knowing GM's past practices, I am going to guess that the mileage claims they state are highly inflated. After all, it only goes the first 40 miles on electric. Time will tell.

Besides that, the Volt is GM's new "diamond in the rough". They plan on basing their bankruptcy turn around plan on cars like the Volt. My question is, who is going to buy them? Especially at $40,000. And with gas staying at around $2.60, any hybrid right now is bad money spent. Gas at $4.00+, then that is another question.

uskrewed

The Volt isn't an electric car, but a series hybrid. It's true MPG is probably going to be the same as a Prius. If Toyota can step their game up and make it so a plug-in Prius can be purchased from Toyota (rather than buying a prius, then voiding it's warranty to convert it to plug-in) GM will lose it's market.

I have to say though, a working series-hybrid vehicle is exciting. I just hope they use individual motors at every wheel so it can have AWD and a diesel engine for the generator. But my guess is that the Volt is going to go the way of the EV1.

Davestoaster

^^^^^^
Most probably.

I do think all hybrids development and city cars like the Scions will take off in the near future, though. There's just too much tension in the middle east, especially in Iran, for fuel prices to stay at the low levels we see them now.

Keep in mind the the average German pays near $7.00 per gallon for gas now.

mcbrew

Dave, it is true that there are no "official" MPG numbers. It is going to be interesting, since it will get infinite MPG for 40 miles, then start to go downhill quickly. I wonder how the EPA is going to deal with that during testing? Also, the numbers that Chevy has posted are "city" numbers. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with EPA numbers and real-life numbers. I'm betting that real-life numbers are going to be all over the board, depending on the driver's commute.

I live 30 miles from work, so I'd have to be able to charge it at work to be able to really get the best use out of a Volt. It just so happens that I could do that... but I can't afford a Volt right now, so that's a moot point. Speaking of price, they haven't really come up with a set number at this point, either. They are saying "about $40k", but that's before gov't subsidies, which could add up to $7-8k. That would bring the price down to $32-33k, which is a little more realistic -- but still above my price range.

JDMJim

Toyota is already working on a small Hybrid based on what will be the new Yaris design which has a rather wicked look. there is also a Corolla-like sedan in Japan that is a Hybrid that is no doubt a spin-off of the new Lexus corolla hybrid thing. seems like old news to me.

uskrewed

that lexus hybrid looks awesome, didn't even know they existed till I saw them on tonight show with Conan O'Brien

JDMJim

the JDM Toyota version looks even better

808-213-503

The Lexus nameplate already has 4 hybrid models (HS Hybrid, LS Hybrid, GS Hybrid, RX Hybrid); go figure.

JDMJim

here's the phonecam pics from a book of the Toyota version
Toyota Sai/Lexus HS250H
2.4L hybrid