Joe_Dezod

Hello all,

After receiving a couple PMs asking about road race suggestions, I thought I would start off by making one giant thread where everyone with road racing experience could chime in, and those with questions can have them answered here. There's a lot to it and my first post barely scrapes the surface. The writing the proceeds this is in response to a PM I received asking about what turbo size I recommend, and what camber setting I would run. Please post up your experience, suggestions, or questions, and we can all go from there... Thanks for reading guys!

For the turbo size, it will honestly come down to the track type. For example...

Firebird West is a smaller technical track, where handling has a higher impact than power. A smaller turbo would be great for this, because there will be some lower speed turns. You want to make sure you have good instant throttle response without lag to get out of the corners.

Firebird main is larger and has a lot more speed to it. A more powerful car would definitely improve track times substantially. Although I would never sacrifice throttle response if possible.

I didn't really road race the tC too much, I only raced it on a full track twice. I believe my back camber setting was 1.3-1.5 ish. Front was .5. It would probably do better with more camber but I drove the car every day and didn't want to sacrifice tire wear.

Honestly, what's more important is just practicing and getting use to the concept of road racing, and learning how your car handles it. Fine tuning of the suspension will come much later down the road because there are many more steps you need to focus on first.

In addition to simply practicing and honing down your skill, I would recommend the following items for the track. They will GREATLY help your track times, as I have experienced this myself.

1. BRAKES!! You will be slamming the brakes quite often, and a low temp pad just wont cut it. You will lose a few seconds easily with mushy pads that just don't hold up. A safe way to improve track times without over working your motor is to get some great pads. Hawk HPS have a pretty wide heat range that hold up to the track pretty well, while also providing a decent cold bite (heavy braking before the brakes heat up). Stick with slotted rotors for reliability. Motul Fluid (sold on our site) will resist boiling and give you a consistent pedal feel throughout the event.

2. Cooling - You're going to be working your engine very hard on a road race track. Especially with a turbo. The radiator upgrade will definitely help keep water temps down, and honestly make your engine feel better over time. If your motor gets extremely hot, you can detonate more causing premature failure. I would also recommend an oil cooler if you don't already have one. That will help your motor, turbo life, and prevent the oil from being broken down as quickly. It's a win win with both mods.

3. A good racing seat or seats - This may seem obvious, but a lot of people don't upgrade their seat. It will keep you firmly seated in the car, which will lower fatigue. Stock Scion seats are not supportive enough for road racing. You will find yourself constantly fighting to stay in the right position which takes away focus from the track, and will create fatigue. Even with stock seatbelts (which is what you have to use for most events), you can focus more on the track and be seated comfortably throughout the event.


Post up more!

Scion_South

Alignment. It's cheap, easy, and it's important to have a car that won't frustrate or scare the ____ out of you with bad handling.

Negative camber is your friend. Your track type, weather, tire and suspension choices will factor in to your alignment settings. Be careful with autocross alignments they can be twitchy while on a road course.

I've had good results with -1.7 degrees of camber up front and .8 or so in the rear with just about 0 toe all the way around. I run stiffer sways all the way around but stock springs and shocks. On 225/45 17 Avon Tech Rs this yields about 1.0 g's avg with peaks of around 1.10 through several turns at Putnam Park according to my Maxqdata system.

I agree with Joe, get your brakes right (Hawk HPS+ pads) and get as much practice as you can. If the car feels good the first time don't touch anything suspension wise until you get a little more experience. If it feels funky talk some of the more experienced drivers in to driving your car. You should end up with good tips on driving and car setup.

Bryan06tC

good stuff guys thanks I'm learning now and hope more is to come good feedback!!

trdtcpr

very informative thread! definitely watching!

Joe_Dezod

Thanks for the post Scion_South. As I mentioned earlier I didn't track the tC much so I couldn't give out a good camber setup. Glad to see others with some great info and experience to share.

I will be tracking my Mazda RX-8 on Saturday morning and I will share some videos with you guys showing everything. NASA Time Trials for the win!

Mods... Perhaps we should made a sticky as this information is better explained? I still have a FAQ/Guide in the FI forum that has done really well. I would love to see more Scions racing

Hat_Trick_Hokie

iTrader: (1)

Joe_Dezod

Here's a new tip...

If you're experiencing understeer on a track on acceleration or 0% throttle, try decreasing the damper adjustment on the front slightly. This will help absorb some bumps and put as much traction to the ground as possible.

There are many other ways to fix this, but if you're making an adjustment in-between races, this is 2 min fix that could take a second or two off your lap time depending on the course and how bumpy it is.

Cheers!

Hat_Trick_Hokie

iTrader: (1)

Back on the subject of brakes. I'm looking to do a major overhaul. And beak in mind, I am looking for a multi-purpose setup (street/autocross/track). I don't feel like changing out pads after a track weekend. And I am OK with having pads with a very firm bite on the streets, I just don't want anything ridiculous.

I am pretty sure the Hawk HP+ is what I want up front. But they don't make a rear pad for the tC. What would you recommend for a rear pad? That would compliment the strength of the HP+ up front.

Also, can someone explain the DOT rating for brake fluid? Lower the number, the huger boiling point, etc?? I was thinking the Motul RBF 600.

kanundrum

Stoptechstage 2 should work for you Eric. I x2 on the whole seat issue. The last time I ran time attack by the time I was done all my laps the skin had tore off my elbow because i was using it to prop my self up in 1 position, mix that up with the g-forces and there yah go.

Too bad there is no 100% sure way to get racing seats with Airbags otherwise I would have em by now.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

iTrader: (1)

^^I'm sure it would be great actually. But I think my rotors are good right now, and I could save $200 by buying everything seperate. What kind of pads come with the Satge II upgrade? And aren't they on some kind of back order right now?

I fully agree with the seat comment also. It's a real pain to be bracing yourself while trying to steer in a tight turn (NOTE: turns 5-8 at Summit Point Main). Does anyone sell some sort of harness bar for the tC? Preferably one so you can somehow access the back seats still? Or one that you can take out when you're not at the track?

EDIT: From StopTech's Website

Joe_Dezod

Closest thing to harness bar I can get my hands on... (Please not this is on Dezod.com and not my site. I will add it to my site in the next couple days if anyone needs one).
http://www.dezod.com/pd_autopower_tc_streetsport.cfm

As for the brake pads, I have an awesome solution for you! We make our own brake pads with a company out of Australia. They make amazing brakes and our pads have a wide heat range (good cold bite) with a lot of heat capacity for track use... Those can be found here:

http://shop.dezodwest.com/product.sc...&productId=215

I have had great luck with those pads for both front and rear. I sold a set to local and he swore by those things!


RBF600 is the way to go. It's the highest boiling point capacity on a brake fluid that your brake lines are capable of holding. If you do a 5.1, it will burn out the silicone and destroy your ABS system. RBF600 wont let you down! I run that on all my vehicles.

kanundrum

Most Likely for the Drilled Stage 2 Kit.

Joe_Dezod

Also,

StopTech is no joke when they come to racing. I've seen people run stock brakes on the track and it works, but you can't drive them as hard. For a pad that has good cold bite on the street, and a decent enough heat capacity on the track, I would say stick with Hawk HP+ and the Dezod pads we carry.

If you go with anything more aggressive than that you're risking a weak cold bite which is more dangerous on the street. You would at that point be switching your pads out between track sessions, one for street one for track.

kanundrum

I use the Stoptech Stage 2 Kit Slotted, they come with axis pads( perfect for street and autoxin) when and If I do a track session. I install some Hawk HT-10's this have pwnage bite on the track but wayyyyyy to agressive for street.

Joe_Dezod

Yes HT-10s are very aggressive pads and will have poor cold performance on the street. Real track pads like that are awesome on track though, I'm sure you love them.

Scion_South

You want to keep brake balance in mind with your front vs rear pad choices. I use the stock pads in the rear with my HPS+ up front, this keeps the rear from engaging the ABS as quickly when the rear wheel lifts while trail braking (because you know it going to lift. )

This combo has done a better job preventing ABS "ice mode", at least in my case it allows me to brake later with out having to "drive around" the problem.

I've talked to Dan Gardner about it on his car and even with CRAZY spring rates he still gets the rear wheel to lift in some situations. So my guess is everybody will have at least a little lift from time to time.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

iTrader: (1)

Awesome. Thanks for the brake info guys.

Looks like a set of HP+ in the front, Dezod's in the rear, Motul brake fluid, and SS lines all around. My next scheduled track day is in October, so I have some time before all this needs to go in.

Has anyone messed with toe settings for our suspension? Is is possible to change w/o aftermarket components?

Scion_South

It's nice not having to worry about the brakes going away on you. You will be able to stop all day long with that setup.

Here is quick run down of my current setup: stock springs/shocks, bigger F/R swaybars, and DOT R-compound tires. You can adjust your front and rear toe with the stock setup. I run just a little toe out up front (1/16 -1/32) with 0 toe in the rear. I'm also running with -1.7 camber up front with about .8 in the rear using the factory "crash bolts". This combo seems to be just enough for autcrossing and not to much for the track.

NurSpec

Trail Braking-

90% of your hard braking should be done in a straight line before you enter your turn. You can carry more speed in the turn if you use a technique called trail braking. This is where you slowly lift your brake pedal from the corners entry point to the apex. The point of this is to keep more of the cars weight on the front half of the car. More weight in the front means more traction for steering. Practice this. If you use too much brake you can quickly induce oversteer and possibly spin.


Heel Toe shifting-

Comes from the old days when the brake and gas pedals used to be 8-10 inches apart. Now its more of a roll depending on how big your feet are. Place the ball of your right foot on the right half of your brake pedal and roll your foot to the side. This is done to increase the rpms so your motor speed matches your transmission rpm. You are looking for a seamless and smooth transition. You do not want to disrupt the car. This should be completed before you start to turn your steering wheel.


Cool Down Laps-
Easy and smart way to get more life out of your brakes, transmission, motor, and all moving parts that are exposed to high friction. After your race/heat/session is over take a lap or two and get some cool air passing in and around your car. Try not to use the brakes at all until you get back to the pits. When you get to the pits dont use your ebrake just throw it in gear and shut er down.

CDogbert

Yes and yes. Don't put your e-brake on in the pits unless you want to completely cook your brakes. Trust me, it's not fun.