Beware - Toyota dealers NOT obligated to fix Scions UPDATE
07-12-2005, 09:23 PM
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Beware - Toyota dealers NOT obligated to fix Scions UPDATE
I was told the exact opposite when I bought my tC last august, but have just now found this out after an extensive fight with my local toyota dealership, which I've documented in previous posts here. I've got a multitude of minor problems and a few larger ones, which I've tried to have rectified by my local (non scion selling) toyota dealership (SIGNATURE TOYOTA, BENTON HARBOR, MI) . After encountering a few hassles each time I've tried to get some warranty work done there, I've been dealing with the scion corporate advocates. They tell me that although the toyota franchise agreements were modified to include scions as cars dealers are obligated to fix, for this to happen they must have a scion certified mechanic on duty.
I'm being told by scion that basically, this dealership doesn't think it's worth the hassle and is refusing to service any and all scions. They flat out dont want to work on them, and have supposedly refused scion's offer of assistance in this area.
So if you're buying a tC at a place not in your hometown because it was hard to find or whatever, don't be assured that your toyota dealer back home will service it, even if you were told that at the time of sale. I feel lied to right now, infuriated. Scion has told me I'm at the end of the line as far as internal complaints, and that I now need to contact an external organization like the BBB if I want to proceed further.
UPDATE:
Please see my last post. I am currently satisfied with this dealership and wanted to update on how they have treated me in the interest of fairness.
I'm being told by scion that basically, this dealership doesn't think it's worth the hassle and is refusing to service any and all scions. They flat out dont want to work on them, and have supposedly refused scion's offer of assistance in this area.
So if you're buying a tC at a place not in your hometown because it was hard to find or whatever, don't be assured that your toyota dealer back home will service it, even if you were told that at the time of sale. I feel lied to right now, infuriated. Scion has told me I'm at the end of the line as far as internal complaints, and that I now need to contact an external organization like the BBB if I want to proceed further.
UPDATE:
Please see my last post. I am currently satisfied with this dealership and wanted to update on how they have treated me in the interest of fairness.
07-12-2005, 09:29 PM
#2
If I didn't sell them, I wouldn't want to work on them either. I wouldn't expect them to.
I'm curious who told you that "all toyota dealerships service Scions" ... it sounds like you should be looking to that person for answers. If not that person, then yourself for not doing enough research. I'm sure it sucks and all and I'm sorry you're having trouble... but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota.
I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same.
To be honest, I don't think the BBB will care. And even if they do, there really isn't much they can do about it.
I'm curious who told you that "all toyota dealerships service Scions" ... it sounds like you should be looking to that person for answers. If not that person, then yourself for not doing enough research. I'm sure it sucks and all and I'm sorry you're having trouble... but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota.
I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same.
To be honest, I don't think the BBB will care. And even if they do, there really isn't much they can do about it.
07-12-2005, 09:38 PM
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"If I didn't sell them, I wouldn't want to work on them either. I wouldn't expect them to. "
It's somewhat understandable from a business sense, but the scion's share a good part of their DNA with similar toyota cars, and the dealer gets the same reimbursement / warranty rates that they do from toyota cars not purchased there. And that doesn't even go into non-warranty work, where there can be a tremendous amount of profit.
Who told me that all toyota dealerships can service scions? #1, I was told that by the sales team at the place of purchase.
#2, that's been the line from scion corporate ever since I'd had dealer problems. Back in January, this local dealer fed me the same line, that they didnt have "repair manuals", and thus couldn't fix anything. Scion corporate quickly called me back, assuring that they had all the manuals and tools they needed, and that they would be able to work on my car with no problems.
"but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota. "
Scion, part of Toyota, gave me this impression, so the problem does come from there.
"I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same."
Many of us who bought cars in the initial frenzy last summer didn't have the option of buying from a dealer close to us. The POS (point of sale ) dealership for my tC is about 1.5 hours away, and because they retracted on a promise to take care of some scratches that were on the car when I took delivery, I'm refusing to go back to them for anything.
It's somewhat understandable from a business sense, but the scion's share a good part of their DNA with similar toyota cars, and the dealer gets the same reimbursement / warranty rates that they do from toyota cars not purchased there. And that doesn't even go into non-warranty work, where there can be a tremendous amount of profit.
Who told me that all toyota dealerships can service scions? #1, I was told that by the sales team at the place of purchase.
#2, that's been the line from scion corporate ever since I'd had dealer problems. Back in January, this local dealer fed me the same line, that they didnt have "repair manuals", and thus couldn't fix anything. Scion corporate quickly called me back, assuring that they had all the manuals and tools they needed, and that they would be able to work on my car with no problems.
"but whatever gave you this expectation is the problem... not necessarily Toyota. "
Scion, part of Toyota, gave me this impression, so the problem does come from there.
"I'll be taking mine to the dealer that I bought it from for any service. I would hope most people would be doing the same."
Many of us who bought cars in the initial frenzy last summer didn't have the option of buying from a dealer close to us. The POS (point of sale ) dealership for my tC is about 1.5 hours away, and because they retracted on a promise to take care of some scratches that were on the car when I took delivery, I'm refusing to go back to them for anything.
07-12-2005, 09:39 PM
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"To be honest, I don't think the BBB will care. And even if they do, there really isn't much they can do about it."
My complaint should be taken just as seriously as anyone else's, and if the response is not to my satisfaction than it's my understanding that that will be placed on public record.
My complaint should be taken just as seriously as anyone else's, and if the response is not to my satisfaction than it's my understanding that that will be placed on public record.
07-12-2005, 11:41 PM
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Ok maybe I am missing it but of course a Toyota dealer isn't going to do free work on a Scion it a Scion. The Infinity dealer wont work on Nissans for free..
Now if your saying a Toyota/Scion dealer wont do it then I would argue that point.
Now if your saying a Toyota/Scion dealer wont do it then I would argue that point.
07-13-2005, 12:23 AM
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"Ok maybe I am missing it but of course a Toyota dealer isn't going to do free work on a Scion it a Scion. The Infinity dealer wont work on Nissans for free.. "
Yeah, you are missing it. The underpinnings of scions are essentially toyota's, and the vast toyota network of dealers that toyota has was a huge selling point to many scion dealers. It's one reason I didn't buy a mini - there weren't that many dealers for service; with scions, you could go to any toyota dealership.
They get reimbursed for warranty work on scions just like any other toyota car.
"It's that the Toyota dealerships aren't necessarily qualified for Scion repairs."
Perhaps, but even the specialist I talked to today admitted it didn't take much for a dealer to have a mechanic be "scion-certified" to work on cars; and this (neccesary) point was never communicated to me. The equipment is essentially the same, minus perhaps some software updates for their diagnostic hardware.
Yeah, you are missing it. The underpinnings of scions are essentially toyota's, and the vast toyota network of dealers that toyota has was a huge selling point to many scion dealers. It's one reason I didn't buy a mini - there weren't that many dealers for service; with scions, you could go to any toyota dealership.
They get reimbursed for warranty work on scions just like any other toyota car.
"It's that the Toyota dealerships aren't necessarily qualified for Scion repairs."
Perhaps, but even the specialist I talked to today admitted it didn't take much for a dealer to have a mechanic be "scion-certified" to work on cars; and this (neccesary) point was never communicated to me. The equipment is essentially the same, minus perhaps some software updates for their diagnostic hardware.
07-13-2005, 02:44 AM
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I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
07-13-2005, 03:33 AM
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The engine is toyota, yes. The tranny is a re-worked toyota.. The rest of the car has SOME parts from toyota, and I mean components, but the car is far from being a toyota (or sharing the same parts as one anyway). Try taking an Acura to a Honda only dealership. Mechanics or anyone for that matter calling many Honda only dealers cant even get parts for them there. Not all GM dealerships work on saturns either. The issue is that they do not have people trained and experienced in Scions because they do not sell them. So you are better off taking it to a Scion/Toyota anyway. I dont they are trying to be _______s about it. They are simply saying they do not have the manuals, or trained people to work on them. It wouldnt pay for them to since they dont sell them and they would barely have any coming in.
07-13-2005, 03:44 AM
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I agree with the group....at some point, Scion will spin off into it's own dealership similar to Lexus. Not all Toyota dealers opted to have a "Scion" section. There were very speciic requirements to sell Scion and in order to obtain one of the dealerships down the road, they have to follow all the procedures including the "pure price" for which they are audited on. Should any discrepancies be found, they can lose their Scion section and any potential future dealership deal. My guess is since Lexus started out this way....you don't see anyone taking their Lexus in to be repaired at the Toyota dealership!
07-13-2005, 07:24 PM
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"My guess is since Lexus started out this way....you don't see anyone taking their Lexus in to be repaired at the Toyota dealership!"
Sure, but there are a number of reasons for that, including lexus service being quite a bit better than toyota. I'm just saying, if you had a lexus, and were told not only when you bought it, but from lexus corporate 6 months later that you could have it serviced at ANY toyota dealer, wouldn't you be a bit peeved if that proved to be wrong and the closest lexus dealer was 45 minutes or 1.5 hours away?
Sure, but there are a number of reasons for that, including lexus service being quite a bit better than toyota. I'm just saying, if you had a lexus, and were told not only when you bought it, but from lexus corporate 6 months later that you could have it serviced at ANY toyota dealer, wouldn't you be a bit peeved if that proved to be wrong and the closest lexus dealer was 45 minutes or 1.5 hours away?
07-13-2005, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 2eZee
I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
Yeah, no way I'd use them at this point even if they caved on their position.
"I dont they are trying to be _______s about it."
Well, they were _______s in person about every service I tried to have performed. And it's a stupendously absurd business decsion in my book. They have THE market on every single scion that needs service in this area, because as I've mentioned there isn't another toyota dealer within 45 minutes of here.
07-13-2005, 08:04 PM
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Stick with a Scion Dealer... Warranty work is paid back to the dealerships by the manufacturer, however, when they give the credit back to the dealer the defective parts MUST be returned by the dealer to the manufacturer... know this bcus my fiance is a Director of Operations of a auto dealer in So. Calif... they all operate the same in this capacity. A non Scion Toyota dealer will not be able to 1) Certify the Repair, 2) Obtain the parts under the Warranty return code or 3) return the parts under the necessary "Warranty" Code for their due credit.
So. Cal has many non Scion Toyota dealers, if it is not uncommon here, it is not uncommon anywhere.
If at all possible it is best to establish a relationship with the dealership where you took delivery of the car. If it means driving a bit out of your way to get your oil changes and maint then you need to plan for that, consistancy is best. Establishing that relationship at the dealership means having a constant Service Advisor as well, when I had my (4) Hondas they all came from the same sales person at the dealer, always went back to the same service advisor and the same technician took care of my car when it was in the shop.
My Fiance's dealership has many long term customers, many of them are celebrities, the all go to him because he is "Management" they are always well taken care of, again established relationships, not that any customer should be treated differently... when you are a familliar face, you do in fact get treated differently, unless you burn a bridge by being a pain in the behind.
Good luck, best suggestion, plan for your maintenance and repairs and go back to the original seller if you can.
So. Cal has many non Scion Toyota dealers, if it is not uncommon here, it is not uncommon anywhere.
If at all possible it is best to establish a relationship with the dealership where you took delivery of the car. If it means driving a bit out of your way to get your oil changes and maint then you need to plan for that, consistancy is best. Establishing that relationship at the dealership means having a constant Service Advisor as well, when I had my (4) Hondas they all came from the same sales person at the dealer, always went back to the same service advisor and the same technician took care of my car when it was in the shop.
My Fiance's dealership has many long term customers, many of them are celebrities, the all go to him because he is "Management" they are always well taken care of, again established relationships, not that any customer should be treated differently... when you are a familliar face, you do in fact get treated differently, unless you burn a bridge by being a pain in the behind.
Good luck, best suggestion, plan for your maintenance and repairs and go back to the original seller if you can.
07-13-2005, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lucky
Originally Posted by 2eZee
I would think long and hard about even wanting to have my car serviced at a bonehead dealership like this anyway.
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
No way would I go out of my way to get dumbasses like this to "cave in" and work on my car.
Stay far far away and find another service shop that doesnt give you attitude.
edit: haha I uses the word way in there FOUR times. amazing@!
Yeah, no way I'd use them at this point even if they caved on their position.
"I dont they are trying to be _______s about it."
Well, they were _______s in person about every service I tried to have performed. And it's a stupendously absurd business decsion in my book. They have THE market on every single scion that needs service in this area, because as I've mentioned there isn't another toyota dealer within 45 minutes of here.
But if there are no dealers in your area, there obviously arent many scions... so going through the trouble of hiring the personell or training them and stocking parts and documentation for a car they will hardly ever work on is not worth it to them.
And even if it is a poor business decision, the BBB will not even consider that reason to publicize it. Not carrying or servicing a certain product has nothing to do with bad business whatsoever. They arent doing anyone wrong other than themselves if they miss business over it. If they failed to service a product they actually sold that is one thing. Scion is under Toyota, but a Toyota dealership is in no way affiliated with Scion necessarilly. These are things to consider when going out of town to purchase a car.
07-14-2005, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by slowpoke
why dont you take it back to the dealership that sold the car?
07-18-2005, 02:20 PM
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Any Toyota dealer could work on the cars and do the warranty work. My local Toyota dealer has done all my warranty oil changes and even did a warranty work when my windows started squeaking.
Now, if this particular dealer doesn't want to work on them, I'd have to agree with the consensus here and NOT force them to work on your car.
Also, AFAIK you can take a Lexus to a Toyota dealership and they will also work on it, I know my town doesn't have a Lexus dealership and I see plenty of Lexus running around.
All of the Scion's share PLENTY of Toyota parts. Ever looked at part numbers for anything? They are standard Toyota part numbers for the most part. Nothing signfies that they are Scion parts in the part number.
Now, if this particular dealer doesn't want to work on them, I'd have to agree with the consensus here and NOT force them to work on your car.
Also, AFAIK you can take a Lexus to a Toyota dealership and they will also work on it, I know my town doesn't have a Lexus dealership and I see plenty of Lexus running around.
All of the Scion's share PLENTY of Toyota parts. Ever looked at part numbers for anything? They are standard Toyota part numbers for the most part. Nothing signfies that they are Scion parts in the part number.
07-18-2005, 05:47 PM
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let me say this again.
WARRANY IS OVERRATED.
let me repeat myself
WARRANTY IS OVERRATED!!!
warranty is only good towards the TSB's.
dealers are really shady about warranty so becareful.
WARRANY IS OVERRATED.
let me repeat myself
WARRANTY IS OVERRATED!!!
warranty is only good towards the TSB's.
dealers are really shady about warranty so becareful.