I am not comparing Scion's business practices to that of a used car sales dealer trying to the rip off the consumer by selling a vehicle at an extremely higher price than that of said vehicle's value. A company starts with an idea of a product or service to sell to the consumer. The company may conduct focus groups to refine the idea to its full marketablity. The main goal of this idea is to make money. The focus groups are a means to make the idea appeal as much as it can to the target consumer. In this case, the younger less experienced auto consumer. This may be good for the younger auto consumer that does not care how much is needed to purchse the vehicle nor if there is a possibility to acquire the vehicle at a lesser price, with some time spent on research, than that of everyone else in his immediate region. However, it does not help me much if I can't have the opportunity to negotiate the dealer profit below the 5.266%, over invoice with no holdback, they are charging everyone else. Scion dealers enforce the 5.266% on just about everyone because Scion will reduce allocations to any dealer that does not follow that model. I doubt dealers would want to lose the allocation of a vehicle in high demand. That does not allow room for a consumer to negotiate the price. Thus, a reasonable method of price-fixing.

 

You keep talking about the 5.266% above invoice as being what Scion says we HAVE to charge people and that is simply not the truth. We can charge 1% under invoice if we wished to just as long as we posted that price on our menu. What I don't understand is your need to negotiate when you by a vehicle, why can't you just except that the vehicle is already a great bargain at the price it is, if it wasn't you wouldn't have bought one. A customer purchases a vehicle when they feel that the value exceeds the price, and you bought a Scion so obviously you feel that the car was a good deal. If negotiating is that much fun for you I would recomend becoming a car salesman and then you could do it every day!

 

I will admit i haven't read half the posts but it looks liek it is about financing. I did what Lootyman did. I went to my bank and I got lower than 4%. I wouldn't finance my car through the dealer. Even though scion wasn't to bad I still got better from my finance institution.

 

Right now that seems to be normal that you can get a lower rate if you are a member of a credit union. Before I sold cars I worked for a bank and in the 3 years I was there I never once did a new car loan. The bank can never compete with the dealers interest rates. If you are a member of a credit union, then it is exactly the oppisite, you will do better with them than what Scion is offering in most parts of the country. Just remember when it comes to financing do your research and find the best rate for you. The good thing about scion is if you finance with them your not getting screwed, but there may be better out there!

 

True about banks ......my fiance works for Bank of America and her employee rate was 4.9! When bought our Volvo we got 2.9 through Volvo and the wound up at BOA anyway..so you never know you just need to shop :D

 

What scares me is that literally 7 days ago I had my credit pulled at another Scion dealership because I was going to purchase one with them... At that time I had a 663 fico. Not the best but not the worst and actually qualified me at a decent rate but ended selling the Scion out from under me. When I went to a dealership that actually had a Scion on the lot for me to purchase, they pulled my credit and BAM, 608. I was absolutely furious and got on the phone immediately to the other dealer and asked if they had been running my credit around town trying to get me financed or whatever some scummy dealers do... they said they hadn't and according to the second dealer I was speaking with, the report actually only reflected only 2 inquiries in total...

How could my credit drop that dramatically in 7 days time?

I'm going to order a report right now and see what my scores are. If I come to find out that my scores are actually higher than what he told me (which btw, he wouldn't let me touch or look at my report) there will be some problems. I couldn't imagine them doing this considering the legal implications but nonetheless, this post makes me wonder. I got slammed with an absolutely horrible rate and a 72 month term. If it wasn't for the fact that I know I'll be paying it off this year, I would have made a much larger fuss about it.

 

Keep in mind that your score can vary with the different bureau companies, and also with the different bureau types. I would agree though, that seems a big drop if they were both auto-specific bureaus.

 

Two things:

1. On the topic of this discussion, the dealer has absolutely no incentive to crank your rate. We are paid a "flat fee" for arranging the financing and the rate is determined soley by your score. The dealer absolutely can and should show you the report. They can not give it to you, nor make a copy, but they are allowed to review it with you. If they give you a copy, they become responsible for its contents.

2. Price fixing. Toyota does not require that we sell the cars at sticker. That would be a violation of anti-trust laws. They require that we sell all cars at the same price and advertise that exact price to all customers. This is what they audit and what they base bonuses and punishments upon. We could sell them all for $500 over sticker, as long as this was the price we listed and made available to all customers. Same goes for any discounts. Don't like that system? Don't buy one.

 

In this case it would seem to me that the dealers pulled different bureau's, which would explain the difference in the two scores.

 

Hey where on the s ite does it say if you're an UNDERGRAD you get a 400 rebate?

 

In my case it was the opposite. A few days before I went to the dealer I ran my Equifax and Experian (dealer said they use Experian). My Scores were as follows:

Equifax: 781
Experian: 789
Dealer (Experian): 818

Not that I am complaining at all. Just wanted to point out that mine went the other direction...UP!

 

i can't help but laugh at the people who come into my dealership and can't understand the concept of no haggle. the people who get upset, call me a liar, and insinuate that i'm trying to rip them off. the same people who shop at ross, so they can better deals than macy, yet are paying $20 for jeans, which cost less than a dollar to make. yet, of course, although they didn't even try to haggle for less than the $19 dollar markup (what percentage is that?), they will bust my ***** for making $700 on a $17k car. and, these are the same people who will go to ford, buy a focus for sticker, with a $2000 dollar rebate. bleh.

 

ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.scionsolutions.com/posses..._grads_buy.jsp

my gf is in currently enrolled in an accredited graduate program:

-Proof that you have graduated from an accredited four-year college, university, or registered nursing degree program during the last two years or will graduate from such a school/program within the next six months, or
-Proof that you have graduated from an accredited two-year college during the last two years, or
-Proof that you are enrolled in an accredited graduate degree program or have received a degree from an accredited graduate degree program during the last two years.

I have to say, overall I'm generally *very* pleased with the scion buying experience. I'm still not quite sure why the dealer's "score" just happened to be ~60pts lower than when we checked ours, and I doubt that we would've gotten a lower 3rd party rate if we hadn't pulled out a check/loan guarantee that we brought ourselves, but it was SO much better than any other dealer that we went to (and we hadn't even gotten to the financing at other places), that unless things go horribly wrong, our next car will probably still be a scion.

Also, fixed-pricing is perfectly fine with me, don't think of it adding 2.5% onto every car, think of it as all cars selling for ~$700 (ok, $1000 on the higher models) over invoice. A whole lot of cars would get a whole lot cheaper. As to the people complaining of price fixing, WAKE UP! Did you know that its illegal (in the US) to charge different customers different prices for the same thing? Imagine if you walked into a clothes store and the checkout person charged you 2x as the person in front of you b/c you had nice clothes and a rolex watch. There's a ton of ways around it (every car is different, etc), but they have a lot more to stand on than you crying about not being able to haggle your way to a slightly better deal.

 

By the way, you know that another part of the college grad thing is that you get the tier 1 finance rate right? So, even if your score is in the mid-600 range, you get the better rate. Of course, you can't have derogitory credit, but if you score is only low due to being in the system for a short time and you are a recent grad, you get the rate and the rebate.