right on.

Someone on these forums was alluding to the fact/possibility(not sure which) that using a different filter then the OEM toyota filter, compromises the VVT-i system. In that the oil pressure is changed, and VVT-i works off of the oil-pressure. Have you heard anything about that ??

 

My VVTi seems to work ok and I think there is upwards of 80psi for oil pressure so . . . it should be ok and like I said it is a full flow filter even though it filters to 5 microns. I would think that the VVTi timing adjustment would be monitoring the change in timing and simply apply more oil flow via the computer controlled oil valve if the timing was not changing enough. That is one of the reasons that they recommend you vary the throttle during breakin and not run with cruise control for extended periods of time - varying the throttle works the VVTi timing.

 

Jan,

I went on that synlube website... and for the life of me I could not find out what Synlube was comparing there product to/against ???!!!! Was/is it Mobile 1 synthetic ? I saw some writings talking about M1 .... but not so sure what they are comparing it against ??

In going to the Amsoil website, Amsoil compares there product against 10 different oils back in 2005. This is real, relivent data , but I could not find anything like this on synlubes website :

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx

 

That's because Synlube doesn't work the same way conventional oils work so the test they do on conventional oils will not give the same meaningful test results when performed on Synlube. Plus M1 has changed they oils in the past few years. Thing to note is that is that Synlube exceeds the SAE oil standards - seems the comparison page says it all with their graph showing the oil specs for GF4-3-2 and Synlube out performing them all as well as links to the various oil test pages.
http://www.synlube.com/oil.htm

 

Wow, so much contraversy, just like everything else here.

I went with this method, and my box runs very well. Acelleration is fantastic and i still get good MPG numbers.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I can tell you i tried an easy break in on my old Plymouth Neon, and the engine was noisey and oil was mysteriously dissapearing.

I will use this method again on my next new car purchase. Although it shouldnt be any time soon as my xB is going along very nicely.

 

What do you tend to average MPG wise ?

Interesting read, especially after reading this:
"The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !! "


Well, when I bought my xA new off the Toy. lot, it had 22 miles on it , so hopefully the 1-2 other people who test drove the ride before I got to it put the pedal to the metal , 2nd-4th ! I do tend to warm up my ride(start up, let idle for 30sec/minute .... cold light still on, and I'll drive but keep it under 2K driving easy, then once its warm - I tend to tack @ 3-3500 rpms).

 

FYI there is a big difference between how motorcycles and our Scions are build - my brother works in a bike shop and is fixing motorcycle engines all the time - they are not designed to last more than what a typical rider drives them in about a year before they start to fail with under sized cam chains and tensioners that wear out in a few thousand miles and believe me these guys are not breaking them in easy. There is not a lot of "metal" particles in the Scion engines they are in fact very clean inside and I have been told that they come with synthetic from the factory. If the rings are not seated at first then isn't a lot of throttle going to leak right past them and overheat them ??? Doesn't polishing the bores take a lot of strokes? What about the timing chain and other load surfaces like the transmission??

 

yeah, I'm not so sure about that *Synthetic from factory theory* that I've heard floating around the forums- still no absolute evidence of this. I'll see what the Toy. dealers says when I ask them that in about 1 week. I do know that when you go for your first 3 oil changes - they use Quaker State 5w-30 oil , non-synthetic.


BTW, I checked w/ the dealer, and they say our engines are NON-Interference engines(which I suspected from the get-go). Honda finally went w/non-interference in the last 5 years.... finally.

 

Miro says they use a very good synthetic for the factory break in oil which is what I suspect by the smell and feel of the gallon I drained out when I changed it - a good test would be a cold flow test of it. Dealers are not going to spend a lot of money on oil they give away for free and Miro said not to even bother with the free dealer oil changes as it would contaminate the engine before switching to synlube. I got the impression that he has been to the Toyota factory where they build the motors and he has worked on them and knows a great deal about motors as one would expect from his business.

As far as ring sealing, they seat pretty quick as they say in the article but the bore polishing takes a lot longer and there are other surfaces that get "heat" cycled like the valves that people tend to forget about along with the valve stem guide bores cam and lifter surfaces and the rollers in the cam chain. More importantly are the gears in the tranny and they can generate a lot of heat and get damaged pretty quick before they break in. I have seen rebuilt trannys get very hot from a blast down the highway and seen the effects of teflon treatment of gears and how much colder the rear end work in my BMW motorcycle.

 

This topic will never be resolved as everyone knows a mechanic and just like everything else every mechanic is right, while all others are wrong. If you read the article again you will see that the same applies regardless of what engine you have. I did this method and i can tell you that i have left other xBs behind at either a dead stop - start or if we are rolling and floor it. I have even been approached by other xB owners and asked what i have done to my box over theirs. Usually my setup is similar to theirs .. intake, header and exhaust.

Im not going to get into a technical ____ing match .. i can just tell you how my car responds when i need it to get up and go.

Oh, btw i tend to get about 28-29 MPG city driving. If im cruising the highways for a while i get around 31 MPG.

 

Not too bad but I get about 40 - 43 mpg average per tank mixed city highway with a lot of short trips and was doing 97mph at half throttle and still accelerating. I typically get 42-43 on long highway trips with the AC being used. Everything in my xB is stock. I also think that the engines are run before then get put into the car at the factory so the rings are probably already seated before we even get the car. The true indication of when the engine is really broken in is when the engine takes longer to warm up from the reduction of friction making heat.

 

What Jan is not telling everyone, is that he is only 80lbs, rolls with 170/65- 13" wheels, and only goes downhill w/his xB(never uphill)

Kidding

 

Actually I got gas today and on the trip from my apartment to my house, gas station and back I got 48mpg according to the Scangauge. Caught most of the lights green today which was very unusual. 427 miles 10.393 gallons about 41mpg with a lot more than usual short trips around town of a couple of miles each.

 

All new honda goldwings get run up to redline in each gear as soon as they are finished being built.

 

I'm at mile 696 in my 09 tc. Will the gas mileage go up after around 1000 miles? Because, its not too good right now.

 

expect about 26 mpg average out of a tC (thats about 70% hwy, 30% city driving). Do a search on gas milage on the tC forums... to confirm this. Its a larger 4cyl. engine , so you cannot really expect 30+ mpg average.

 

No. Synthetic oils usually have a detergent effect in use and will handle the switch on clean engines just fine. As for the poo poo'ers on synth, I took my first two [of three] freebee oil changes from Scion and switched to Amsoil at 6200 miles. As most cars will be fine doing conventional oil every 3K but I was putting about 800-900 road miles a week on my car commuting and looked at the cost of changing my oil every month (if I could find the time) versus going long on synth. I go 20K between changes and filter every 10K. Financially, it works out to about $45 for 20K in oil changes, so big whoop! Now at 208K miles on my 2004 xB, the car sounds just like new are still runs with the best!

I have seen old bBs(xBs) with over 180K in Kenya, and figure if they are running with less than optimal maintenance after all this time, the TLC I put in mine should bring me in the 500K club easily!!!

 

bought my 12 tc on 4-6-13 and rolled over 1460 miles, Scion recommends 10k oil changes and 0w20 synthetic oil..

since this is a maintenance and car care thread, I been looking around on other forums on how to keep wheel and tires clean , some were saying that tire shine and other tire silcones were bad cause it fades the tire and premature the life of the tire. was curious if anyone really knows truth or not. like the look of a low profile tire looking wet with tire shine. If tire shine/ armor all any of those make tire start to dry rot and crack in a premature time spand? just wondered what everyone else thought on this topic. micro fiber towels or terry towels for drying/ cleaning?

 

I used Armorall spray foaming tire cleaner on my factory goodyear tires and after the rears were on for 6 years they looked ok but had cracks that were really deep which you could only see when no pressure was in the tire. Plenty of tread left as they were always in the rear but it was time for new tires due to the sidewall cracks. I also used some silicone copier fusing oil - really thick clear stuff which worked well too. They all wash off in the rain. I have not found anything that keeps the tire from aging but most all give that nice black shine.

 

I just recently bought a 2013 TC and registered an account for this forum in hopes of finding a good resource of information...such as proper break-in methods. After reading the 7 pages of this thread all I can say is "Where are the moderators??" I was disappointed to find a lot of negativity between members and people who are unable to stay on topic.

I am someone who believes in empirical evidence and unfortunately this thread is full of a million "expert opinions" with little hard data to back it up. I read moto man's article and while it seems to be data driven, in the end I think I feel more comfortable following the instructions provided by the manufacturer. I trust Scion/Toyota more than I do a random guy with a basic webpage. The inconsistency of information/advice in this thread unfortunately leads me to default back to the owner's manual. I just wish I hadn't had to read through 4 pages of synthetic oil debate inside a motor break-in thread in order to reach that conclusion.

Another member said it well in an earlier post. We are all learning so take it easy on those who know less. Even if you know a ton, someone else knows more than you do. When you get stumped and need to ask a question how would you like them to respond to you? Forums are supposed to be about sharing knowledge, not about showing people how much smarter you are than them. It doesn't matter if you are young or old, help others with the information you have and do so in an educated manner or no one will put weight into what you say anyway.