I have one of the first run Scion TCs, built in May 2004. If the temperature is 80 or higher, and the A/C is on full blast with recirc on it does not cool enough to stop a person from sweating. It is pretty terrible, worse than my Civics and not even in the same ballpark as my old Altima. Anyway when I bought the car, I was busy with work and school and didnt get to bring it in to the dealership until winter. It was freezing outside, so i guess it was dumb to bring it in at that time, as the air conditioner tested out fine. Not hard for it to blow ice cold air when its 30 degrees outside. So I thought the airconditioner was just weak. Anyway I read that theres a TSB for the Scion TCs A/C. I talked to Scion and the only way they would repair it using the TSB is if it replicated the problem at the dealership. I guess I need to find a day that is 80 or above. Problem is, my dealership only has openings in the mornings when its cooler, what should I do? Thanks.

 

I have the same problem and was wondering the same thing. I got my car in Sept 04 and haven't really had time to bring it in since I need my car. My A/C is extremely weak...I sweat like crazy during the summer.

 

That dealer is giving you inaccurate information. There is a TSB for your car. It is TSB AC008-04. Vehicles built prior to a specific vin # cut off (which was in mid-05 as I recall) get the repair. It has nothing to do with replicating conditions. Use search to find the posts about the vin #s and THIS LINK for all the TSBs. Hope this helps.

 

They are NOT performing a TSB because he/she finds it online and brings it in, saying his car has this issue. IF THE PROBLEM does NOT replicate, it ain't happening, and if the dealer does do it, they are in need of some warranty claims.

 

The thing is, if the temperature is 65-70 outside, like it usually is in the mornings, wont the air conditioner work much cooler? The problem is when its around 85, the air conditioner freagin sucks, worse than my Civics. It seems they only have openings in the morning, have to wait 2 weeks to get a morning appointment.

 

what kind of freaking retarded dealership are you going to?
only morning appts, that just plain stupid

sorry bro

 

I had a dealer try that line on me when I went in to have the CD player replaced for the "CD Player Pauses" TSB. After a full day without the car, the work order said "Could not replicate". Yeah, like they are going to have a mechanic sit there for an hour waiting for the CD player to screw up!

Right on the TSB it says that it should be performed in the case of customer complaint. No question of replication. I had to press the issue to the service manager, but they finally replaced the unit, probably to avoid the issue coming to the attention of Toyota corporate.

Toyota has a specific AC test procedure in the service manual that they use to evaluate cooling system performance. I did it myself on my xB to determine if it was worth doing the TSB (it was). The toyota test procedure specifies that the car be in the shade, and that the temperature and relative humidity be between certain values. The outside temperature values for the test are actually rather modest (in the 80s).

I sincerely doubt that most dealer service departments even have a way of measuring relative humidity, so any "test" they run is not in line with Toyota's own procedure.

I have also found that the level of honesty displayed by many Toyota service departments is on par with the sales department, very low. They don't seem to like to do warranty service, probably because they are not paid as much by Toyota as they would like. Nevertheless, they are obligated to make your car right, even if you have to go through Toyota corporate to force the issue.

George

 

uh,
a.)We are told BY Toyota to replicate issue, regardless of what the TSB says
b.)True, some service depts. have like salesman juniors working, and aren't honest at all, but ive only worked for dealers that have honest techs/managers.
c.)We have a/c tests we perform, in the shop, not outside
we can check cooling temp/pressure
and its in accordance with Toyota

but the fact that they could not replicate your concern with the CD player, kinda makes me wonder about the dealerships you guys are visiting.
Gives us good ones a bad name

 

Right, on the fuel tank TSB you're going to actually go down and fill it up and judge how early the nozzle shuts off. On the CD player TSB you are going to sit there for 30 minutes waiting for the player to (maybe) skip. With AC you're going to check the relative humidity, inlet temperature, etc. to make sure that they are within the range in which the test is possible. If you really did that, you'd have the service manager breathing down your neck wondering why you are wasting so much time. Such is the nature of business.

The fact is that most of these problems are apparent to the people who own the car, but not easily replicatable by a mechanic. That's why the TSB (and a TSB _is_ Toyota "talking to its service people") says that problems are to be fixed because of customer complaint. It says _nothing_ of "replication".

Toyota mechanics may be told a lot of things by their bosses, but the text of the TSB is clear. If a customer identifies a problem, the dealer should fix it using the specified procedure. If a dealer chooses not to do so, or forces their customers to jump through additional hoops to get the needed service they are not acting in the best interest of Toyota or their customers.

Toyota should be praised for identifying problems with their cars and offering to correct them within the warranty period via TSBs. Unfortunately, many dealers cancel this good will by making it as difficult as possible to actually get the problem fixed.

George

 

Id rather fix these cars according to TSBs, thats money in my pocket
i dont care how big or small, i get paid either way...
but from what our district rep tells us, we have to,HAVE TO replicate the concern. we CANNOT go based off of what a customer says, we have many,many ppl trying to
dupe us with problems they dont actually have

 

Thank you for the vote of confidence. Your view mirrors that of my dealer, that everyone coming in the door is looking to steal from them. It's a great excuse to treat your customers like idiots who can't possibly know what is going on with their own cars.

What is the advantage to a customer in having their 11 gallon tank replaced with another 11 gallon tank? What is the advantage to the customer in having a CD player removed and replaced with another CD player with exactly the same function? Do you really think that your customers get off on the thought of a random mechanic taking apart their brand new cars?

Most TSBs are responses to non-safety-related problems. Many TSB issues are not easily diagnosable or reproducable. They are engineering errors that are acknowleged by Toyota. Toyota knows exactly what cars are affected and when the error was fixed on the assembly line. It is rather silly for mechanics to diagnose the same problems over and over, except as a way to obstruct customers from getting the problems fixed.

Questions: When you are faced with the fuel fill TSB to you actually fill the tank yourself to verify that the pump shuts off early?

When faced with the CD pause TSB do you really sit there for the 30-40 minutes needed for the buffer to overflow and cause the skip?

The fact is that dealers don't get paid as much by Toyota for warranty work as they do for non-warranty work, yet they have to pay the mechanics the same. I can understand why they might want to discourage warranty work, as it isn't as profitable. This doesn't make the process right, though.

Has it every occured to you that your "district rep" may not be completely honest with you?

 

I dont replicate or perform the TSB, since im and ASM not a tech. I handle the customer,etc. Try to do as little mechanical work as possible
For CD issues,fuel tank TSB we'll go ahead and perform it. As far as this one we are supposed to be dealing with here, the A/C issue, we have to replicate the problem. and the problem is the A/C not cooling, so its not like its a hard thing to do. We can replicate 80degree temps if we have to, but if he came to me twice with this issue, im not gonna argue with im, ill handle it. but initially we have to replicate MOST issues at hand, thats the way it works.
i can't really explain how things at the dealer work unless you actually deal with this stuff on a day-day basis

 

Yes, that is my experience. The dealer forces customers to be without their cars at least twice for any problem. If they make it inconvenient to get warranty work done, customers are more likely to say "the heck with it" and live with the problem.

Ah, the "you don't work here so you wouldn't understand how we operate" theory. Unfortunately, It is quite easy to figure out how dealer service departments operate after the customers have been through the wringer a couple of times..

I note that you've changed your story from "we have to,HAVE TO replicate the concern" to "we have to replicate MOST issues". Care to dig a deeper hole?

BTW, the test specified by Toyota for the AC can only be performed if the temperature is between 77 and 95F and the relative humidity between 30% and 70%. The RH makes a significant difference in determining the performance of the AC. For example, a inlet/outlet drop of 27F would be in the normal range at 70% humidity but inadequate at 30% where a bare minimum 36F drop is expected. How do you measure the relative humidity before running an AC test?

 

each dealer operates different, so having gone through issues with one dealer, they wont have the same process at another dealer
and no, im still on flat ground...but thanks