Ok so the testimony of a couple of guys that wrote it down in a book isn't good enough? Even if they went and named places, people, and things that could be verified?

 

The only thing that needs verifying is the existence of a higher power and or jesus having magic powers and niether one of those things can be verified, the places or people that existed are irrelevant... Agreed?

 

I would be inclined to believe 2 people IF they asid they physically witnessed something, but you or friends don't even have evidence for yourself though.

Did you see jesus? did your friends? no. they just think he's real based off a book they were told was true. right?

that's not evidence for me, and that's not evidence for you. The term "that's evidence enough" is a b.s. statement about testimony that me and you both have heard from christians who don't actually have any evidence.

If I said my sister was in a car wreck and by god's miracle she lives. Well if the doctor of someone in the know said, "she was in a wreck, and her heart came out of her chest, and before my very eyes a heart miraculously regrew." That would be a miracle. Not "she wasn't supposed to live, because she lost a lot of blood, but did so that's a miracle".

 

Well I think I have a picture of Jesus that was taken with him wearing a Wizard hat. Is that good enough?

 

^ Why not just bring the glove to him?

 

Good afternoon gentlemen. Most of you who have been in this debate from the beginning, know I've been participating a lot up until about a week ago. There are a couple reason I've quit posting, the primary one being that I've felt guitly about using my work time for posting. (Feeling guilty here doesn't have anything to do with this reply, lol, it was just coincedence) The second reason is that we have circled back upon the same arguments several times, and I think a lot of intelligent posts have been dismissed as mockery, by both sides, theism and non-theism. Anyhow, I don't want to spend my time posting the same things.

So, this brings me to the reason I reply... I figure If I do, you'd at least see how real, my God is to me, whether that means anything to you or not.

I'm not Catholic, and don't believe making someone feel guilty or trying to convince them they are going to hell is an appropriate way to share your beliefs with someone. I also know that not all Catholic churches are like this. Likewise, I do not feel like beliefs should be shared in a sense that they just make people feel good, like the "feel good" churches that were mentioned to before. I've heard a couple pastors preach, that are "feel good" pastors, and it has no hold on my life. I like pastors that preach the truth, which is not always easy to take. I like it, because it challenges me to improve my own life, so that I could act more like Christ. Just to add to that, in my experience, I've learned that at the center of Christ's character, was humility.

After that lead up, here's my response. I am absolutely burdened with guilt, for my sins, seen and unseen. I do believe everyone can expereince this, at least everyone but the truly lost and evil person. As a matter of fact, I think our "conscience" is one of the things God has given us that would lead us to know that we need him to free us of our sin. I know you non-theists would argue against me, but I'm just sharing my perspective. Notice I said sin, not guilt. The only way I'm truly freed of my guilt, is in the fact that I know that I would not commit the same sin again (often a hard task that I fail in), and in the fact that I know that God has forgiven me. At the same time, I will tell you how I feel when I have sin on my heart, and when I approach God in prayer. First of all, when I'm feeling guilty, or when I want to sin, I don't want God to even exist! I don't want Him to have anything to do with my life, because I am holding on to my sinful nature and thoughts. I don't want to change, and so it is hard for me to even pray. And it can be scary, approaching God, when you know you've sinned against Him. But when I finally do, it is an incredible experience. At the same time that I feel how great God is, how powerful, and how holy, I know how weak that I am. How I'm prone to sin, but also how God is changing me as a person. This is what is amazing about the relationship, that I can experience God's grace. His forgiveness when I don't deserve it. It does not that I can keep on sinning, but that I want to find God's favor by changing my ways. That I might not feel guilty, becuase I'm repenting. Furthermore, when I wrong someone, I should, as the Bible says, ask them for forgiveness and admit my wrong. You're right, it is not healthy to carry that guilt with you. And if someone will not forgive you, then that burden is on them.

To that end, I don't feel I'll post much more in here for the said reasons, but I may continue to follow the thread. If you want to know more, I'd gladly have a one on one conversation with someone, or you can always read my other posts.

 

lol...ok heard of the term Jesus of Nazareth. Nazareth as described in the bible is totally false. many stories in the bible actually wrongly describe places and people. Heard of John of Gamala?

ok, and the noah/ark, since im sure you didn't read this thread. if all the ice on the entire planet melted, our sea level would raise 215 feet. if rain was the cause of the flood as it says in the bible, then almost all sea life would be dead as anemones and corals do not survive a hundreth of such a drop in salinty (i own saltwater reefs at home, i know, as any biologist knows).

if the bible didn't include such lies, i could not refute that. But the bible is no where to look for proof.

 

Done, read the accounts of 4 people that all claimed to have seen Jesus and what he did. Then look at the evidence that the stories were passed around within years of the events, when anyone of the people mentioned could have disputed them.

So wait, if you weren't personally there you won't believe something is true? That doesn't really make sense. Hiroshima never happened because you weren't there to witness it? All history is taken into account as being fake because you didn't see it? It has to be, because I found out about that in a book, and all books that are written can't be believed.

 

Sorry but an event with video coverage in an area where I'm sure you could still measure excess radiation is a far cry than a story passed on hundreds of years in a time when people were extremely primitive/superstisious before it was actually written down and then translated time and time again.

 

I'm not easily offended.

That's why I said "with reason". Duh, we can't fly...or stop a train with the fist of iron fury.

Also, I'm not saying god is the only reason of war. I was just getting at how retarded it is to go to war in god's name. It's an oxymoron.

 

I have heard of him. Casciolli was an ex-priest and he wrote that he believes that Jesus wasn't real and that he was a real guy named John of Gamala, right? Then didn't he try to sue a childhood friend that became a priest for slander? But last time I checked didn't Casciolli's case get dropped from court for being without merit?

When now here's another one of those contentions that even Christians have over the Bible. To look at it from the point of view that you're asking about, if God himself wanted to flood the world, don't you think that the one that controls EVERYTHING that happens keep the coral and sea life alive?

Now my view on this is the one that I found out about before I became a Christian. The word for Earth in Genesis that is used when its talked about being covered by the seas is not the same as the Entire Earth. It's actually closer to the term meaning "this Land." This makes more sense, because humans came from the middle east and why would God wash the entire planet clean if humans were only in one main area at that point in history?

 

You mean like the moon landing!

 

Ok. So you are pretty much not believing it because video cameras weren't invented yet?

As far as something being passed down and repeated over and over again. I could see that being a problem if they haven't found texts that were written only 40 to 60 years after Jesus died that are pretty much exactly like the translations we have today. Its actually kind of scary how similar they are after all this time.

 

^ Ah Sh*t... Nobody reply to that as a major threadjack could occur.

My point is the story of paul bunyon wa passed down from gen to gen and for that reason we consider it completely meritless, so why is the bible credible? I guess cause Paul Bunyon doesn't promise us salvation after we die.

 

I'm still bitter about that!

 

ok, what 4 people? surely you don't mean stories from the bible. Please read this thread, as I've shown time and time again, many of the stories from the bible are false. days 4&5 of creation, the 76 generations between adam and jesus, noah's ark, etc...

Peter is only disciple from the bible that has even a little bit of evidence he even existed. and that evidence doesn't prove he authored anything. You can't even prove matthew/mark/luke/john existed, so why believe something they might have written.

the bible is only evidence that there was a story.

there are people today that actually witnessed that account, there is video evidence, we have statements from people that we can prove existed.

 

^ Maybe yoooouuuu can't stop a train with a fist of iron fury, but I'd appreciate it if you spoke for yourself in the future. LOL...

 

Well my only problem with that is that Paul Bunyon is a story from one person that got passed down. But the Bible is written by multiple authors that are all verifying what the other guys are saying. Sorry if I think that makes it a bit more credible to me.

 

Haha in that case my man I will buy you a burger if you could teach me how.
I am but a humble student!

 

Not one of those "Multiple Authors" can be proven to have ever existed...