I like all the what ifs.... LoL...

I still think that ultimately, you must deal with my last post... it's still quiet a significant fight with logic to grab onto order from chaos... and reason from random... (simple terms, but insanely complex science, and quite possibly, unsolvable science, which you've really posted some good thoughts about, and conceeded a bit on the fact that there is an idea that the answers are not there, and may be in the future... although... they may not be as well, within that line of logic)

There are a lot of what if's... and I like them as well...

What if your right? Ok...no biggie, a bit of lost time and a few human creatures maybe are inconvienienced due to the "Wacky" Christians around, no big deal in the scheme of things... after all, humanity is not even a blip in the immensity of time, so all possible hurt or pursecution as the result of politics or man, isn't significant at all universally, as it's just human animals upon human animals and ultimately matter to be reused down the timeline.

What if I'm right? Uh, Oh... well, then it'd time to be a little humble and admit, that sometime we did't have the answers, and sometimes all the answers aren't there...

We both realize a bit that we fill in the gaps as much as we can, but, in the end... with Atheism and Theism.... IT ALL COMES DOWN TO FAITH.

I see order all around me, and almost infinate complexity in design... The faith that's required of me to believe that it is all the byproduct of randomness and chaos is too significant of a jump for me... It's not consistent with what I see around me, or what I've experienced in my life. Trust me, in my world travels, there must have been an innumerable amount of coincidence in the incredible things I've seen worldwide, and some flippin' amazing examples of the power of prayer... rack it up to coincidence on your side, but in my shoes... and I'm pretty dang skeptical of things, You'd never convince me there's NOT something outside this natural world that can effect the hearts of humanity, and the fate of lifes....

I see it everyday in my work with the homeless, call it delusion, or misguided hope, but I see every single day what secular society and the world around us does to people... and I've seen what true Christianity does to people... and the dynamic experience supports and builds my worldview.

I don't see HOPE in atheism... I don't see a FULLFILLING purpose... Living my life just to help others have a good temporary existance, just to become dust and cease to exist seems to show some insane insignificance to life... my only significance is helping others, and in return, helping myself better tolerate the short time of existance I have... How empty, small, and sad that must be.... I can't, even in fully distancing myself from the ideals of faith, gather how that appeals to the heart of man.... I understand fully how Christianity DOESN'T appeal in many ways (Due to some pretty significant absolutes in the moral areas), and fully see many individual's passionate opposition of it... but,

I've yet to have an atheist sell me on the true hope and fullfilling appeal of that worldview...

In the ideals of faith and God, at least I personally can compliment what I see in the world in regards to design and order, I can account for man's true purpose and the origins of morality, and I can account for the value of human life, over any other...

I sincerely believe that someone with an honest heart, and a mind free from the stereotypes and perversions of what Christian doctrine is, can see a significant value, a sincere truth, and a worldview is consistent with what we see in around us, not only in the nature of the world and it's intricate design, but the nature of man, in our own pure selfishness....

I've studied the Bible and brought many, if not all of the stated "Inconsistancies" and "Contradictions" in front of myself in my own study, and in front of people I trust, both from within the faith, and those in opposition to the faith, and can rest solidly in the truth, based on biblical context, knowledge of culture, and knowledge of historical and biblical accounts from a cultural perspective. There's a lot to delve into, but realise that a collection of books written across many many years was written primarily to people within that historical and cultural timeline, and that we must take time to distance ourselves from how we are used to interpreting history and literal account, and adopt the mindset and perspective of the individuals written to in that time frame... it's one SMALL part of Biblical theology that is almost always left out of the "Contradictory Bible Sites"... Imagine if, say, for arguements sake, 2000 years ago, the Bible was written in the language or way we interpret history today, it'd be useless and foreign to the people.... but, since we have history, and the knowledge of the culture and way history was shared and interpreted from that timeframe, we can, with true research, effort, and diligence, understand the message, filtered to our own way of seeing things... That paragraph is only a BRIEF description of one small part of the study of biblical text, when addressing possible "inconsistancies"... again, why focusing on simple and "Easy" answers regarding them is futile.

I don't truely believe there is a sincerity in really wanting to account for those items addressed by individuals in opposition to the faith, but I see more, based on reading this, and speaking to hundreds of people about faith, that most people just want to share opposition, cause it's easy, and provides a sense of security and the illusion of correctness... but when the rubber meets the road... are wholly uninterested in spending the time and effort to truely understand...

Once again, the time, study, and respect for history, biblical writings, and what I'd expect from an individual discussing it, ,cannot be controlled here enough to have me trust anyone to go through and discuss many of the issues brought here in depth...

Which, I think shows my STRONG respect for the process of discussing and sharing faith, and could equally show many individual's naivity, in thinking that this envirnment would be fair to either ideal, or even begin to reach the depth of knowledge to defend and account for atheist or theist ideals.

From here, all I see is going around in circles.... have at it... I got faithful work to do

 

BTW - If you don't wan't to read a lot, or talk about ideals and want to stomp on me in a game, go here! It's a heck of a lot more fun that reading this stuff, and talking worldviews

Show me the scientific and rational mind in this game!

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0

 

^^^^
that game was hard. gave up on it

ok, stiil havent answered the question.
where did the FIRST anything come from. before your aliens, alternate universes, and other so called logical theories took place.
you still havent established any beginning to your theories.

still looking for this evidence. please dont send me googled links to bible contradictions because they are laughable and discredited.


you dont believe in God, but you tell me what limitations he has, and the limitations that we have about understanding him. you tell me that in death i wont understand God when you dont think He exists. why?
what do mean by "if he is what he is." there are so many interpretations of God or a god. which one do you mean? the only one that matters is the true God. and He explains how we unable to understand Him fully, but not "beyond all conception."



your kidding right?

dont put "what ifs" and expect results that matter.
ive always believed this also. to be atheist requires much more faith than to not. it you can believe that everything came from absolutely nothing, then you've got to have more faith than anyone who believes otherwise

 

Actually you'd be incorrect there man. Black holes only increase in size when matter falls into it. Over time black holes naturally shrink without matter being sucked in to sustain it. Check out Hawking radiation for more info. The black holes don't go actively gobbling up the universe. They only absorb matter that falls into it's gravitational well. A black hole left to it's own devices will eventually (over a huge timeline) dissipate.

 

Christian explanations are not based on any evidence. Atheist creation explanations at least have some evidence to support it. Albeit not much, but there is some. I'm not fully convinced of the big bang, but it is something to go on.

Like I asked before, since links mean nothing to you and I'm not going to look up every passage in every bible ever made in every language to prove to you the bible contradicts itself, then what source do you consider reputable and I will find it and post it.

If there are so many which one is the true god? Yours? Guess what? Everyone thinks theirs is the true one. How do you prove it? You can't. You have FAITH that yours is the true one. I have FAITH that science will explain most if not all of the universe's secrets. Certainly not today or tomorrow, but eventually if we don't die out first. I KNOW that the science we have is recreatable and will consistently work. There is no faith involved here. You cannot KNOW anything about your god as there is no proof of his existence, in your idea of him or any other theists idea of him/her/it.
Like I explained before, atheists do not believe everything came from nothing. That is the christian idea. My explanation of the big bang and quantum singularities explained this already.

 

what christian believes everything came from nothing?
there is no other way to explain it in your terms. first there was nothing, then there was something, this step is never explained. why?
im sorry but i have not been following this thread from the beginning. just pop in every now and then to put in my 2 cents; can you tell me or at least summarize your quantum singularities and big bang theories? thanks

 

Already did. Read the thread. If you don't read through it, you will keep bringing up points that were already covered and we'll just keep going in circles. PLEASE read the thread, the WHOLE thread before answering. I went through at least three pages of responses that said exactly what I would have merely by reading before answering. I'm not fond of repeating myself.

 

^^
copy and paste?

 

Big Bang Theory

 

The only difference between a theist and an atheist is just a little space.

 

Let's look at a couple of things here...

1) Suppose there were no God...where do things like morals come from?...and the idea that there is a God? Just think about it...wouldn't EvErYoNe be running around killing each other and whatnot???

2) For those of you who are atheist and want to look at it from a less religious standpoint...........We know about things that happened in the past because things were written down or passed by mouth from generation to generation....we can go to history class and learn exactly what happened hundreds and even thousands of years ago. So if we know about all this stuff that happened so long ago, how come there is no historical evidence or documentation that we came from monkeys or whatever??? There is one book that goes all the way back to the beginning, it's called the Bible...and it goes to the very beginning...and it says we have a God. So to the atheists out there: Where's your book?

3) If there is no God, then where do we get the idea of God from? It would seem that the idea of a higher power wouldn't even exist if there were no higher power. It had to be placed there somehow.

 

Oh...and two other little bits.

Atheists haven't got any more evidence that they are right in their belief than anyone else with some sort of religion. In case you haven't noticed, atheists believe in the "theory" of evolution. Key word "theory" which means that it hasn't been proven yet.

And for my final point for tonight...if we came from monkeys through a process of evolution, then how come the monkeys are still here??? And since they're still here, how come they aren't evolving into humans themselves???

 

I am an atheist, yet I know right from wrong, good from bad etc. I don't need somebody to tell me killing is wrong, it's pretty much common sense.

And the way you're talking, you're saying that no one that believe in god does anything wrong. Apparently the bible doesn't say that taking advantage of little boys is wrong huh.

Here's my book. You should give a read:

http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Athei...9079422&sr=8-1

And this is the weakest argument I've ever heard.


So does this mean Big Foot, Unicorns, The Easter Bunny and other fictional characters actually exist. I ask because I would like to have a beer with Big Foot. I bet he's a cool guy that just got a bad rap.

 

Pick up a science book. Just because something evolves, doesn't mean the original goes away.

One thing I've always wondered is that, isn't everyone an atheist. As defined by dictionary.com, an atheist is:

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but how do believers in Christianity explain Allah or Buddha or other religions gods? Do they not exist? Because then you're denying the existence of a supreme being.

 

How is it that this thread wasn't touched from April 27th to December 29th. Oh I know, DIVINE INTERVENTION!

Just kidding.

Seriously though, thats really bringing a thread back from the dead. Sort of like RESSURRECTION if you will!

Just kidding! Again. I couldn't help myself.

 

Here's a couple atheist quotes I really like:

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

"I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you"

 

Apathetic agnosticism > All.

I don't know, no one does, no one can know, so who gives a ____.

 

I like beer... I like boobes... I love God & his boy Jesus.

Thats all I really wanted to add to this conversation

 

I like that, making a point without being pushy.



Speaking of which, I believe. If you do, fine. If you don't, fine. I really don't care personally.

 

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