Thank you for making my point.

 

That is a perfectly reasonable thought. And if someone would just take the time to conduct complete unbiased investigations into this, confronting the evidence, I would be happy. I guess too many people have died for me to overlook it like I have many other things like Clinton's China trade policy, or Bush's wiretapping and document classifying

 

I think a lot of people are now hard-wired to think everything is an "Us and them" mentality when it comes to the American people. No doubt due in part to the angry rhetoric being shouted by pundits on radio and tv. It serves the individual party's interest to keep us at odds with one another.

We are Americans first, not Republicans, Greens, and Democrats. It is up to all of us as citizens to uphold certain standards for the government which is supposedly "for the people, by the people", yet has seemingly de-volved from that principle.

 

Wow. Truth.

 

FYI - Sarcasm duly notied by the way.

let’s take a look at American Airlines Flight 77. Passenger/hijacker Hani Hanjour presumably rises from his seat midway through the flight, viciously fights his way into the cockpit with his cohorts, overpowers Captain Charles F. Burlingame and First Officer David Charlebois, and somehow manages to toss them out of the cockpit (for starters, very difficult to achieve in a cramped environment without inadvertently impacting the yoke and thereby disengaging the autopilot). One would correctly presume that this would present considerable difficulties to a little chap with a box cutter—Burlingame was a tough, burly, ex-Vietnam F4 fighter jock who had flown over 100 combat missions. Every pilot who knows him says that rather than politely hand over the controls, Burlingame would have instantly rolled the plane on its back so that Hanjour would have broken his neck when he hit the floor. But let’s ignore this almost natural reaction expected of a fighter pilot and proceed with this charade.

Imagine that Hanjour overpowers the flight deck crew, removes them from the cockpit and takes his position in the captain’s seat. The weather reports say it was fairly clear, so let’s say Hanjour experienced a perfect CAVU day (Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited). If Hanjour looked straight ahead through the windshield, or off to his left at the ground, at best he would see, 35,000 feet -- 7 miles -- below him, a murky brownish-grey-green landscape, virtually devoid of any significant surface detail, while the aircraft he was now piloting was moving along, almost imperceptibly and in eerie silence, at around 500 MPH (about 750 feet every second).

In a real-world scenario, with this kind of “situational NON-awareness”, Hanjour might as well have been flying over Argentina, Russia, or Japan—he wouldn’t have had a clue as to where, precisely, he was.

After a few seconds (at 750 ft/sec), Hanjour would figure out there’s little point in looking outside—there’s nothing there to give him any real visual cues. For a man who had previously wrestled with little Cessnas, following freeways and railroad tracks (and always in the comforting presence of an instructor), this would have been a strange, eerily unsettling environment indeed.

Seeing nothing outside, Mr. Hanjour would be forced to divert his attention to his instrument panel, where he’d be faced with a bewildering array of instruments—nothing like he had seen in a Cessna 172. He would then have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position.

After all, before he can crash into a target, he has to first find the target.
It is very difficult to explain this scenario, of an utter lack of ground reference, to non-pilots; but let it suffice to say that for these incompetent hijacker non-pilots to even consider grappling with such a daunting task would have been utterly overwhelming. They wouldn’t have known where to begin.

But, for the sake of discussion let’s stretch things beyond all plausibility and say that Hanjour—whose flight instructor claimed “couldn’t fly at all”—somehow managed to figure out their exact position on the American landscape in relation to their intended target as they traversed the earth at a speed five times faster than they had ever flown by themselves before.

Once he had determined exactly where he was, he would need to figure out where the Pentagon was located in relation to his rapidly-changing position. He would then need to plot a course to his target (one he cannot see with his eyes—remember, our ace is flying solely on instruments).

In order to perform this bit of electronic navigation, he would have to be very familiar with IFR procedures, all of this was supposedly accomplished by raw student pilots while flying blind at 500 MPH over unfamiliar (and practically invisible) terrain, using complex methodologies and employing sophisticated instruments.

To get around this little problem, the official storyline suggests these men manually flew their aircraft to their respective targets (NB: This still wouldn’t relieve them of the burden of navigation). But let’s assume Hanjour disengaged the autopilot and auto-throttle and hand-flew the aircraft to its intended—and invisible—target on instruments alone until such time as he could get a visual fix. This would have necessitated him to fly back across West Virginia and Virginia to Washington DC. (This portion of Flight 77’s flight path cannot be corroborated by any radar evidence that exists, because the aircraft is said to have suddenly disappeared from radar screens over Ohio.)

According to FAA radar controllers, “Flight 77” then suddenly pops up over Washington DC and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which “Hanjour” allegedly levels out at ground level. Oh, I almost forgot: He also had the presence of mind to turn off the transponder in the middle of this incredibly difficult maneuver (one of his instructors later commented the hapless fellow couldn’t have spelt the word if his life depended on it).

And then, all of a sudden we have magic. Voila! Hanjour finds the Pentagon sitting squarely in his sights right before him.

But even that wasn’t good enough for this fanatic Muslim kamikaze pilot. You see, he found that his “missile” was heading towards one of the most densely populated wings of the Pentagon—and one occupied by top military brass, including the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld. Presumably in order to save these men’s lives, he then executes a sweeping 270-degree turn and approaches the building from the opposite direction and aligns himself with the only wing of the Pentagon that was virtually uninhabited due to extensive renovations that were underway (there were some 120 civilians construction workers in that wing who were killed; their work included blast-proofing the outside wall of that wing).

 

I totally agree. Partisanship is killing this country. It's gotten to the point where rebulicans will always vote for their party's candidate no matter how bad he or she is....and visa versa for the democrats. It's gotten to where no democrat will ever admit to a republican doing anything right and visa-versa. It's pathetic. I've watched perfectly intelligent people pose ridiculous arguments about things just because they hate Bush or Kerry or Clinton (either one), or Kennedy...ect. I just can't help but feel like that's what a lot of this is all about too.

 

This is a PM, not my words:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: TheDivineComedy
To: HeathenBrewing
Posted: 3/24/06 11:53AM

Subject: not letting me post to the charlie sheen post....

but anyways, if you can tellthem to do a video search on "loose change", they will find a 1.5hr long video on the conspircy of 9-11.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ever heard of a portable GPS device? All they'd have to do is point in the right direction, IMO.

The building theories have never been actually tested in a 100-floor skyscraper with a plane full of fuel dumping down the center. it seems perfectly logical to me that a large explosion in the middle of this structure is going to travel outward from the blast which could blast out floors in succession which may sound like multiple blasts.

Don't take this as a political angle, but the biggest problem I have with the "conspiracy/coverup" is that the same administration that pulled of this near perfect coverup are the same people who are called incompetent by the theorists. How could this group of bumbling fools pull this off? Luckier than the terrorists?

 

Hard to say for sure. Why would our government plan to kill its own people and blame it on Cuba like the documents on "Operation Northwoods" show?

This line of thinking (killing Americans to further an agenda) is obviously nothing new.

 

I have been asking that same question around here for a while... funny, no one ever answers me.......

 

I know how you feel. I bring up excellent points and no one wants to tackle them either.

 

Lets assume they did use such a device. They would still need to navigate the plane to its destination.

 

Still leaves the question about pinpoint flight accuracy at jet speeds. The manuevers that were made, etc. But, definitely could solve the nav issue.

 

Love the avatar.

Portable GPS might be a possibility, but as of yet there has not been evidence or papertrail of it. I don't think it was one of the items found during screening before the flight. Although that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Perhaps someone can expand on that?

The explosion you see when the plane hit is the fuel igniting. Now, when the fuel ignited, it appeared it was instantanious. Not sure there would be much time from impact to explosion for "dumping down the middle". How would fuel escape the flash explosion?


As far as the other is concerned. It has not been ascertained that it was the adminsitration that caused this, although it could have facilitated it. I point to "Operation Northwoods" which was presented by the military to President Kennedy and rejected..

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military- industrial complex....The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

President Dwight D. Eisenhower Farewell Address January 17, 1961

 

I haven't watched the super long videos about the "theory", so this may have already been explained...I don't know. But did anyone explain, if the events didn't really happen the way we were told, what happened to 4 plane-loads of passangers? Where did they go?

 

I challange your assumption that "the planes dumped their down the center".

Here is a picture:
http://www.startribune.com/images/24/65786.html

The picture shows the bulk of the fuel burning OUTSIDE of the building.

How could the fuel both burn up outside the tower and pour down the elevator shaft?

 

Devil's Tower?

 

Better to focus on what we have seen and know rather that what speculate.

But as George Nelson, Colonel, USAF (ret.), pointed out, NONE of the "found" parts have part numbers or serial numbers on them; not at the Pentagon and not at Pennsylvania. For production control, manufacturers stamp such 'part' numbers on virtually EVERY piece of an aircraft. The major components are found with the manufacturer's serial numbers.

Research other plane crashes and see if you can find even one (when the plane is recovered) where investigators were unable to find one marked part.

 

Well, I challenge your assumption that the picture posted shows "the BULK of the fuel". What are you basing this on? Similar tests of planes hitting 100 story skyscrapers?

 

The planes were stolen and all the serial #'s were filed off?