xlr8tC

does protesting the celebration of an explorer make sense to anyone else? i thought it was a day to pay tribute to columbus' accomplishments. their argument is that they have no objection to columbus, but his arrival marked a start of suffering and plagues in the americas. while this is true, columbus had very little to do with the plagues and suffering himself. as a matter of fact, he was insane at the end of his life. not much of a threat to anyone.

protesting columbus day would be akin to protesting a day made to pay tribute to einstein. after all, he ushered in the age of nuclear power(and weapons). or maybe we should protest the nobel awards since they were paid for with money from the inventor of dynamite.

BigMURR

There reasoning for protesting him is kinda stupid because at anytime the Vikings or the Chinese for instance could have spread their plagues long before Columbus. Now what they should protest is the fact that Columbus is adorned when it is known in his actions and writings that he was stereotypical conquering European (in those times) and his motives were truly selfish.

We praise a man who, in his journal, states that Indians were interesting specimens and had the possibility of being good slaves...

just some interesting things to think about.

mtxblau

The voyages prior were for exploration; Columbus' was for economic development. Spain needed a one up and decided to bankroll on his jaunt.

Some reasons to protest
1) the guy thought he was in India, and thought the andes were the himilayas. (re: he's stupid),
2) he made the voyage four times and was never the wiser (fool me once, shame on you...)
3) he conquered the indigenous tribes and forced them to change religions
4) and towards the end of his life went crazy and tried to get Spain to capture Jerusalem.

How can someone 'discover' America when a) he didn't know he was in America and b) wasn't the first one there?

Other than imperialism, I don't quite get the point of Columbus day. I guess people protest its recognition of a federal holiday? If there's a Columbus day, why not a Che Guevara day?

BigMURR

^^^Ditto to everything but the first part as both the Chinese and the Vikings traded and used resources in the Americas. Though the reason they did explore was in part to explore and part economic reasons.

matt_a

Yeah, when you study the true history and what Columbus was really like, I've always thought it was strange that we celebrate "his" day. But I think it'e equally as dumb to protest it. I mean, who cares?

THE_DON

It's to bring light to future generations. Don't forget, while you and I may know the truth, in school they're still teaching kids that he "discovered America while looking for spices".

If the protestors never spoke up, those lies would eventually become gospel.

-THE DON

DriverXa

Wow just a bunch of whiny lil b*tches complaining about something else that "offends them". Well if we shouldn't celebrate Columbus day than we shouldn't celebrate St. Patricks Day, or Martin Luther King Day, or any other holiday. I mean come on people, wtf??? If ur christian do u celebrate Hanucka(sorry for the misspell)? No. Noone is forcing u to celebrate every n all holidays. It's a free country n u can celebrate whichever ones u want to, but that DOESN"T give u the right to get a holiday canceled o whatnot just cuz u don't like it. Ur not the majority.

"How can someone 'discover' America when a) he didn't know he was in America and b) wasn't the first one there? "

N to this quote I am stupified. Really wtf??? Yes there were other people here be4 Columbus came along an discovered it. But Everyone thought the earth was flat n that nothing existed after a certain point. Columbus was looking for India, but he nor anyone else in the modern educated society of that time knew about or ever conceived the idea that a whole other continent was just on the other side of the Atlantic ocean. Discovering something is to find something new that no one knew about be4 hand. N that's y he's credited for discovering America.

THE_DON

You represent the type people the protestors are reaching out to. Your view of history is completely skewed. There's a book you should read by James Loewen, "Lies My Teacher Told Me" You'll learn a lot more about the real Columbus and why people protest him.



-THE DON

BigMURR

Wrong wrong wrong. First things first the America's were never lost, people knew about them, when I say people I mean other than Europeans. It was the Europeans who were the uneducated population of that time. It was the over bearing corrupt Catholic Church (in that time) that made the common man dumb and fear so called uncharted waters much like "the earth was the center of the universe". The Muslims and Chinese, for instance, were horribly advanced to the Europeans and to put it bluntly if it wasn't for the Europeans love of war they would have not became the super powers of the time.

China, for instance, around a 100 years before Columbus, had a fleet so big that Columbus' ships would have been little specks in comparison; their flagship could carry a few tons of supplies and like a 100+ crew. So don't say the Europeans were the educated modern society. They were just the most aggressive.

matt_a

So nobody knew about this place before he got here? Gee...I bet that's news to the natives WHO ALREADY LIVED HERE.

mtxblau

It's a little different as it's a federal holiday - given status that St. Patrick's day is not. So technically, yes, public schools are forced to recognize / celebrate it. But given how little effort you put into your post, I'm not expecting you to realize that.

As for your 'wtf'?... well, it's based on mythology. It was generally recognized then that the earth was in fact a sphere. What they didn't understand, or know, was how large the earth was and how much water was on earth. Case in point, read Dante's Divine Comedy (Inferno is the most famous), written 170 years before Columbus' voyage, which was premised on the Earth being a sphere.

(You can pick up the Divine Comedy in three parts, Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso from Barnes and Noble for $5 in hardback. The translations are very good, but you'll need to read each at least twice to truly appreciate it)

Anywho, Americans thought Europeans thought the Earth was flat based on Washington Irving's biography of Columbus, which was riddled with errors and myths.

In any event, Europeans didn't think there was a landmass between Europe and Asia. What they *did* think was that the route was longer. Columbus used some fuzzy math to make his case, and off he went.... and he found the Americas.

Though, again, he didn't know it. He insisted it was India until his death. Martin Waldseemuller, a cartographer, was convinced it wasn't (based on Vespucci's journals) and named it America.

But, DriverXa, you really summed up what's wrong with Columbus Day - it's a holiday based on myths of a bumbling idiot and really isn't doing justice to the people who truly 'discovered' america.

EDIT: I really should fact check before I post. I was right on the general items, but forgot to mention that 1. he wasn't using a spanish fleet, but boats from a financial backer; 2. the spanish crown didn't finance the expedition, but instead agreed to make up for the shortfall from the private backers and 3. the spanish crown didn't expect him to return. That last detail is my favorite.

locondcoco

hey, all i know is that i get a day off for it. so i will not complain!

scionofPCFL

Personally, I thought the Monday Night Football game that just happened to have fallen on ColDay should have been Patriots v Redskins.

mtxblau

Shouldn't it have been the buccaneers and the skins? Or raiders and the chiefs? Or we can go historically accurate and do the vikes and the skins/chiefs...