Get 50% more gas with this easy device
actually if im getting this right they arent actually injecting water into their intake system so hydrolock is not a problem. from what i can see, the main concern would be the usage of hydrogen and its long term affects on the car.
Originally Posted by lvlonkey
actually if im getting this right they arent actually injecting water into their intake system so hydrolock is not a problem. from what i can see, the main concern would be the usage of hydrogen and its long term affects on the car.
It's very simple. You don't change your engine or computer. A quart-size (95O cc) container is placed somewhere under the hood. You fill it with DISTILLED WATER and a little bit of BAKING SODA. The device gets vacuum and electricity (12 Volts) from the engine, and produces HHO gas (Hydrogen+Oxygen). The HHO gas is supplied to the engine's intake manifold or carburetor as shown below.

Taken from:
http://www.squidoo.com/Water-For-Gas-Converter
Just ordered the AquaThrustPlus system basically same concept just perfected. Already seen it on 2 cars one being a 2nd gen xB and it gets better mpg then my wifes New Toyota Camry Hybrid. Might want to rethink the laughter....
Well thislooks like there may be more to this....could this be a viable system...hmmmmm
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...26714&src=news
cmon someone try one of these systems and tell us if it works...I am to skeered to be the first one here! lol
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...26714&src=news
cmon someone try one of these systems and tell us if it works...I am to skeered to be the first one here! lol
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Originally Posted by djct_watt
http://www.squidoo.com/Water-For-Gas-Converter
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The proof that HHO is a scam
May 2008
If you haven't already read the intro to this proof, please do.
The first thing you'll note about these "run your car on water" schemes is the size of the electrolysis cell and the wires that lead to it.
Typically they're about jam-jar size and the wires are about 16 gauge, a thickness that can comfortably carry about 30A which, at 12V, represents about 360W of power.
So the first question obviously has to be...
How much gas is needed to reduce fuel consumption by 40%?
Well the first thing is to work out how much energy it requires to keep an average vehicle cruising at(say) 65mph. According to this source it takes around 20HP to cruse at that speed.
Let's convert that to electrical energy by multiplying by 746 (the number of watts in a horsepower). We get 14,920, or roughly 15KW.
Now, if we want to replace 40% of that power with energy from HHO gas, we'll need to use at least 15KW x 0.4 which comes to 6,000 watts (6KW).
If we assume that the electrolysis cell which converts electricity into HHO gas is 100% efficient (which it certainly isn't) then that means we'll need a massive 6000W/12V or 500 amps of current to make that much gas.
Suddenly those 30A wires are looking rather inadequate aren't they?
What's more, since the average car's alternator can only deliver about 80A of current, this means the battery would have to deliver the other 520A and (in the case of even a good 80AH unit) would be flat in under 10 minutes.
Of course these simple calculations ignore the fact that electrolysis cells are not 100% efficient and the even more important fact that the average internal combustion engine is only around 30% efficient -- so even if we delivered 6KW of HHO gas to the engine it would only produce under 2KW of actual power.
With these inefficiencies taken into account we'd actually need a staggering 1,500A of electrical current to generate the necessary HHO gas to reduce our fuel input by 40%.
So clearly the math doesn't add up. There's just no way you can extract enough electrical energy from your car's automotive system to create the gas volumes needed to create any meaningful amount of energy.
How efficient are those electrolysis cells
Well in the above calculations, we've assumed 100% efficiency but the sad truth is that even the best electrolysis cells offer far less than that.
In the case of these "run your car on water" scams, the tiny containers of water usually pictured are grossly inadequate, not only in their efficiency but also in their actual size.
[. . .]
Take a look at the YouTube video above and note the following:
the amount of power the small single-cylinder is producing
the amount of gas being used to produce that small amount of power
the size of the electrolysis cells needed to generate that amount of gas
the amount of electrical power (1.7KW) needed to generate that gas.
Obviously, given that it's taking 1.7KW (or around 2.3HP) of electrical energy and a huge electrolysis cell to create *just* enough gas to keep a lawnmower engine barely idling, the jam-jar sized cells promoted for vehicles are a joke.
And the sad thing is that, even if you used a huge cell like this, the amount of gas created would still be too small to have any discernable effect and the amount of electrical energy required would be beyond any vehicles electrical system.
So there you have it folks.
The laws of thermodynamics remain safe. The only thing at risk is the hard-earned cash of those who are gullible enough to be duped by these scammers.
No, you can't run your car on water by installing a useless electrolysis cell under the bonnet.
But wait... I've recently had a lot of email from HHO scammers who claim that I've got it all wrong and that HHO doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics.
Here is how they claim it works and why I still say it doesn't.
May 2008
If you haven't already read the intro to this proof, please do.
The first thing you'll note about these "run your car on water" schemes is the size of the electrolysis cell and the wires that lead to it.
Typically they're about jam-jar size and the wires are about 16 gauge, a thickness that can comfortably carry about 30A which, at 12V, represents about 360W of power.
So the first question obviously has to be...
How much gas is needed to reduce fuel consumption by 40%?
Well the first thing is to work out how much energy it requires to keep an average vehicle cruising at(say) 65mph. According to this source it takes around 20HP to cruse at that speed.
Let's convert that to electrical energy by multiplying by 746 (the number of watts in a horsepower). We get 14,920, or roughly 15KW.
Now, if we want to replace 40% of that power with energy from HHO gas, we'll need to use at least 15KW x 0.4 which comes to 6,000 watts (6KW).
If we assume that the electrolysis cell which converts electricity into HHO gas is 100% efficient (which it certainly isn't) then that means we'll need a massive 6000W/12V or 500 amps of current to make that much gas.
Suddenly those 30A wires are looking rather inadequate aren't they?
What's more, since the average car's alternator can only deliver about 80A of current, this means the battery would have to deliver the other 520A and (in the case of even a good 80AH unit) would be flat in under 10 minutes.
Of course these simple calculations ignore the fact that electrolysis cells are not 100% efficient and the even more important fact that the average internal combustion engine is only around 30% efficient -- so even if we delivered 6KW of HHO gas to the engine it would only produce under 2KW of actual power.
With these inefficiencies taken into account we'd actually need a staggering 1,500A of electrical current to generate the necessary HHO gas to reduce our fuel input by 40%.
So clearly the math doesn't add up. There's just no way you can extract enough electrical energy from your car's automotive system to create the gas volumes needed to create any meaningful amount of energy.
How efficient are those electrolysis cells
Well in the above calculations, we've assumed 100% efficiency but the sad truth is that even the best electrolysis cells offer far less than that.
In the case of these "run your car on water" scams, the tiny containers of water usually pictured are grossly inadequate, not only in their efficiency but also in their actual size.
[. . .]
Take a look at the YouTube video above and note the following:
the amount of power the small single-cylinder is producing
the amount of gas being used to produce that small amount of power
the size of the electrolysis cells needed to generate that amount of gas
the amount of electrical power (1.7KW) needed to generate that gas.
Obviously, given that it's taking 1.7KW (or around 2.3HP) of electrical energy and a huge electrolysis cell to create *just* enough gas to keep a lawnmower engine barely idling, the jam-jar sized cells promoted for vehicles are a joke.
And the sad thing is that, even if you used a huge cell like this, the amount of gas created would still be too small to have any discernable effect and the amount of electrical energy required would be beyond any vehicles electrical system.
So there you have it folks.
The laws of thermodynamics remain safe. The only thing at risk is the hard-earned cash of those who are gullible enough to be duped by these scammers.
No, you can't run your car on water by installing a useless electrolysis cell under the bonnet.
But wait... I've recently had a lot of email from HHO scammers who claim that I've got it all wrong and that HHO doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics.
Here is how they claim it works and why I still say it doesn't.
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml
and the main page again
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml
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Engifineer, where are you? I'm well versed in physics, but he is, by far, the top physics expert here on SL. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't find any faults in the above article's concepts and calculations.
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Another, REAL, scientific break down. . .
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/226...r-car-on-water
definitely scam.
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/226...r-car-on-water
definitely scam.
Well I'm no scientist but the bf is noticing more mpg with his car, Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GS. Not sure if his DIY is any different than that but it is interesting since he is logging the tanks ups and what not. I'll bug him to read this thread and post something
I just don't get it I guess. There is so much polarizing stuff about these systems, but if it was such a scam why is the IRS offering tax deductions (first link I found, near bottom; bonus 3) for people that buy the systems?
"Any property installed on a motor vehicle (including installation costs) to enable it to be propelled by a clean-burning fuel*."
"For vehicles that may be propelled by both a clean-burning fuel* and any other fuel, your deduction is generally the additional cost of permitting the use of the clean-burning fuel." And hydrogen is defined by the IRS as one of the allowed clean burning fuels. That's a $2000 to $5000 dollar deduction.
I'm not claiming to be an expert just asking why our government would OK it if it were a scam.
"Any property installed on a motor vehicle (including installation costs) to enable it to be propelled by a clean-burning fuel*."
"For vehicles that may be propelled by both a clean-burning fuel* and any other fuel, your deduction is generally the additional cost of permitting the use of the clean-burning fuel." And hydrogen is defined by the IRS as one of the allowed clean burning fuels. That's a $2000 to $5000 dollar deduction.
I'm not claiming to be an expert just asking why our government would OK it if it were a scam.
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^you can write it off your taxes for the same reason you can write off strippers, booze, and fancy meals as election campaign expenses. If you've been around government long enough, you know that about 40 years ago, it was common practice to have hookers sent to politicians!
You can legally write off a lot of silly stuff on your taxes (and do it legally) ; it doesn't mean a thing. Turn a gun in a donation event and donate your murder victim's clothes to charity.... Take your coworkers out for happy ending massages, but scales to measure and distribute drugs.... And write it all off as business expenses. I think you get my point. All you need in the event of an audit is a receipt.
You can legally write off a lot of silly stuff on your taxes (and do it legally) ; it doesn't mean a thing. Turn a gun in a donation event and donate your murder victim's clothes to charity.... Take your coworkers out for happy ending massages, but scales to measure and distribute drugs.... And write it all off as business expenses. I think you get my point. All you need in the event of an audit is a receipt.
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The gov't doesn't ok any particular company or product (at least they aren't supposed to).
They develop tax benefits and subsidies for companies (and consumers) to develop (and use) beneficial technologies and products. It's like state taxes on E-Commerce. Thr goal is revenue.... It's not targeted towards ebay or amazon or anything in particular. It's just a blanket tax. The tax break on alternative fuels is a blanket tax break on all forms, research, and technology. The Gov't spent and wasted several millions of dollars in (1940's $'s mind you), developing the Spruce Goose, a project that never really worked.
In Economics you learn that the government is the least efficient method of spending and distributing money.
They develop tax benefits and subsidies for companies (and consumers) to develop (and use) beneficial technologies and products. It's like state taxes on E-Commerce. Thr goal is revenue.... It's not targeted towards ebay or amazon or anything in particular. It's just a blanket tax. The tax break on alternative fuels is a blanket tax break on all forms, research, and technology. The Gov't spent and wasted several millions of dollars in (1940's $'s mind you), developing the Spruce Goose, a project that never really worked.
In Economics you learn that the government is the least efficient method of spending and distributing money.


