First of all, Hip-hop went mainstream with Run-DMC (Can you say, "Walk This Way"???)

Secondly, how can hip-hop be corporate? Corporations are corporate..lol. I don't have a problem with 50 Cent, Eminem, Kanye, whatever just because they are mainstream. For every WACK artist on a major label, there are a thousand wack artist in the underground...lol

Also, I don't neccessarily agree with the $$$ issue. Any given indie rapper would love some Jay-Z type cash! The issue that I have is choice and variety. Doeas anyone remember when the radio/MTV played more than just the same 10 songs? The problem is that only 5 corporations (Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch, Disney, Viacomm, and someone else -- Jay-Z, Russel Simmons, etc. are just bums compared to Rupert Murdoch!) own all the media outlets (record labels, tv, newspapers, movies, radio, etc) . Basically, 5 corporations get to decide all that we see and hear - although lately the internet has been a good outlet for small business, it won't be long before the big 5 take over the internet!

It doesn't take big money to "push the envelope" or to be more creative, but it does take big money to be heard. Good music is good music period. The hard part is finding what's out there sometimes.

 

Good points stan what I meant by going mainstream in the late 90's is everyone no matter who you are started listening. People did notice back then I feel but late 90's I started noticing changes like r2dr said it became socially acceptable and cool to listen to it. Soccer Moms bumping the latest snoop is pretty good example I think.

 

i, personally, STRONGLY DISLIKE mainstream hiphop. yes, i do admit, i'll dance to it at the clubs, but it's only because im always very intoxicated. if i wasn't, then i wouldn't even want to be in the club. i am so happy that SCION is down for the UNDERGROUND. real HIPHOP mcees. underground hiphop artists are intellectual. they tell a story about life, love, society, how hiphop has changed, etc etc.

 

I agree with everyone on this thread. All really good points!

 

I think its funny that you guys call Snoop and Dre old school.

Any hip hop you can hear on MTV or the radio is worth about as much as a used styrofoam cup. Thats just my two cents.

 

Awww man..

 

Man... that is why I keep it real and listen to local Bay area artists. Good shizzzzzz

 

I mean the new Snoop stuff is more commercial or whatever - Stuff from the Chronic and Doggystyle and around then was good stuff.

 

Oh fo shizzle.. thats my nizzle!

 

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that rap was the perfect vehicle to elevate and unite the youth of America to causes and social problems that affect them and their world. However, marketing figured this out and decided to harness that power to sell their product.

Lots of old school (real old school not Snoop and Dre,, JEEZE!) was about... something. Real revolutionary stuff and it pushed the envelope by making shocking statements that went against the social or political grain.. things that one might not have been P.C. or allowed to talk about. Groups like Public Enemy would write lyrics that would start a dialogue.

On top of this it seems the old school really focused on the lyrics and how they flowed as part of the whole more so than most of the rap now. I hear so many that wouldnt be able to hold their own without the mix. The talent only seems to go as far as the soundboard. Not to mention, they seem to only care about shocking people with the use of graphic profanity and sexual connotations as opposed to something that would make someone think or cause inspiration, over the simple conquest for the almighty dollar and fake veneer.

 

I thought Old School meant pre-Run-DMC? I guess I am just old I think most consider 88-92 roughly as New School/Golden Age Hip-hop where beats and lyrics took a huge leap forward.

Anyways, I think you have a glorified view of older hip-hop. It wasn't all PE with positive and conscious lyrics. There were a ton of folks prior to Public Enemy that used graphic profanity, sexual connotations, gangs, money, materialism, drugs, etc; simply lyrics over a raw drum break. Everything out now has already been done, just taken to an extreme level in one way or another.

Where I agree with you is todays MCs holding their own as MCs. Have you been to a live hip-hop show lately? 99% of rappers (mainstream AND underground) don't even know how to hold a mic right! Let alone Move the Crowd.

 

True true.. good points!

 

On a side-note, am I the only one who dug MC Hammer? I can still listen to crime story, cant touch this, here comes the hammer, 2 legit, pumps and a bump and enjoy it. laugh away.

Now thats old school ;)

 

Actually.. I rocked some of that the other night... a buddy of mine and I were downloadin a bunch of stuff we had thought of.. we laughed at that!

 

Here's a point I'd like to make which doesn't necessarily talk about the music, but what it has come to represent...

As a white guy with plenty of friends that are both black and into hip-hop / rap, I have to say that it's a bit of a confusing issue when "black leaders" - you know, the Jessie Jacksons of the world - say they're sick of everyone looking at black people like they're all pimps/drug dealers/thugs/ho's, etc...
Now, being the said white guy, all I see on BET/MTV, etc. are music videos and movies portraying black folks in just that way???
How are people that don't have a lot of exposure to minorities (and especially black people) supposed to think otherwise?
I mean come on - how many great role models do these poor kids have these days? Athletes, musicians and other celeb's aren't what I want my kids emulating.

I have to think about how Bill Cosby got slammed for wanting the black community to step-up and take responsibility and to be better.

Dunno - didn't mean to sidetrack the thread, but I want to know what others think about this?

Scott

 

MC Hammer was dope at one point! I have his old records (yes, vinyl ) when he was still on an indie label. It was all over when he sported a Speedo on "Have You Seen Her"

 

Oh man.. CLASSIC!

 

Hammer was packing something in the pumpbs and a bump video too. God damn Alabama black snake

 

TMI

 

Ditto!

Hells yeah Rico... old hip-hop was about education & such. Talking about BDP, Grandmaster Flash, etc. Like when Eric B & Rakim blew up... that was some good shizz. I'm not gonna lie... I bump the new stuff... Crunk this... Grill that. Yet... for me... Rap was about political movements. Still one of my favorites is Ice Cube's Amerikka's Most Wanted album. Produced by the Bomb Squad... awesome messages (some profane too). Yet few remember that... most only know is "We Be Clubbin' & WES-SSSYDE!"

Now... can I get a bootleg of self-destruction?