At or MT?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,141
From: Maryland
Look, driving a manual transmission car clearly isn't for everybody. It requires skill and tecnique which is not something everybody has. I know automated manual transmissions make for faster driving, but my argument isn't about what makes the FRS faster, it is what makes the car more enjoyable to own, and since it is a lightweight moderately powered sports car, and thus there is a lot of enjoyment to be had through the actual operationg of the manual gearbox in such a car.
as for the FRS being offered with a DCT and being too expensive, there are many cars in this class or below that have DCT, look at the Ford Focus and the Hyundai Veloster, both are thousands cheaper than the FRS, but have DCT transmissions. Also, most reviews don't find them to be very good applications in their category, and prefer the manuals. are they more efficient than the manuals? yes, yes they are, but are the more fun to drive, no, no they aren't.
So in conclusion, I know manual transmissions are becoming obsolete, but they provide a tactile connection between the driver and the car that you will only know if you can operate a manual transmission properly.
as for the FRS being offered with a DCT and being too expensive, there are many cars in this class or below that have DCT, look at the Ford Focus and the Hyundai Veloster, both are thousands cheaper than the FRS, but have DCT transmissions. Also, most reviews don't find them to be very good applications in their category, and prefer the manuals. are they more efficient than the manuals? yes, yes they are, but are the more fun to drive, no, no they aren't.
So in conclusion, I know manual transmissions are becoming obsolete, but they provide a tactile connection between the driver and the car that you will only know if you can operate a manual transmission properly.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 244
Look, driving a manual transmission car clearly isn't for everybody. It requires skill and tecnique which is not something everybody has. I know automated manual transmissions make for faster driving, but my argument isn't about what makes the FRS faster, it is what makes the car more enjoyable to own, and since it is a lightweight moderately powered sports car, and thus there is a lot of enjoyment to be had through the actual operationg of the manual gearbox in such a car.
as for the FRS being offered with a DCT and being too expensive, there are many cars in this class or below that have DCT, look at the Ford Focus and the Hyundai Veloster, both are thousands cheaper than the FRS, but have DCT transmissions. Also, most reviews don't find them to be very good applications in their category, and prefer the manuals. are they more efficient than the manuals? yes, yes they are, but are the more fun to drive, no, no they aren't.
So in conclusion, I know manual transmissions are becoming obsolete, but they provide a tactile connection between the driver and the car that you will only know if you can operate a manual transmission properly.
as for the FRS being offered with a DCT and being too expensive, there are many cars in this class or below that have DCT, look at the Ford Focus and the Hyundai Veloster, both are thousands cheaper than the FRS, but have DCT transmissions. Also, most reviews don't find them to be very good applications in their category, and prefer the manuals. are they more efficient than the manuals? yes, yes they are, but are the more fun to drive, no, no they aren't.
So in conclusion, I know manual transmissions are becoming obsolete, but they provide a tactile connection between the driver and the car that you will only know if you can operate a manual transmission properly.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 217
From: SATX
I drive a 50 mile round trip commute every day, and spend around 5 miles in stop-and-go backed up freeway every day. I used to live in a place with a lot of hills as well (Monterey Bay area).
I'd choose a stick shift every time, hands down. I spent a month on business in DC last year and was in stop-and-go traffic through there every day in my rental Fusion, and would have killed for a manual.
Downsides to a an automatic:
- strains against you in traffic.
- delay upon pushing accelerator from stop
- delay in downshifting
- less engaging experience
- unexpected shifts (say, accelerating on an onramp)
It takes some time to get used to a manual, I suppose - I'm 31 and have only owned manuals; automatics feel artificial and the perceived lack of direct control makes me very nervous in traffic. In stop-and-go traffic, you can actually learn to predict the starts and stops, keep it in first or second gear, and rarely have to come to a complete stop*. A manual with the clutch fully engaged in a low gear at creeping speed will allow such precise control of the speed that you'll wonder how anyone tolerate slushboxes.
*
I'd choose a stick shift every time, hands down. I spent a month on business in DC last year and was in stop-and-go traffic through there every day in my rental Fusion, and would have killed for a manual.
Downsides to a an automatic:
- strains against you in traffic.
- delay upon pushing accelerator from stop
- delay in downshifting
- less engaging experience
- unexpected shifts (say, accelerating on an onramp)
It takes some time to get used to a manual, I suppose - I'm 31 and have only owned manuals; automatics feel artificial and the perceived lack of direct control makes me very nervous in traffic. In stop-and-go traffic, you can actually learn to predict the starts and stops, keep it in first or second gear, and rarely have to come to a complete stop*. A manual with the clutch fully engaged in a low gear at creeping speed will allow such precise control of the speed that you'll wonder how anyone tolerate slushboxes.
*
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Just bought my FRS last week. I do a 122 mile round trip commute, mostly on country twisties. I really thought one of those newfangled paddle shifter autos would be the way to go, and in this case especially because of the mileage boost.
I bought the Manual and LOVE it. Since the speed limit for my entire commute never exceeds 55, which means I spend most of my time at around 68, I seem to be in the max mileage curve for this car as well. The average "drive normal" mileage is around 32 mpg. I'm quite happy with that, considering it is like driving a comfortable go-cart.
Just DANG this car is fun. It's like my old Opel GT in the 70's but a LOT better.
I bought the Manual and LOVE it. Since the speed limit for my entire commute never exceeds 55, which means I spend most of my time at around 68, I seem to be in the max mileage curve for this car as well. The average "drive normal" mileage is around 32 mpg. I'm quite happy with that, considering it is like driving a comfortable go-cart.
Just DANG this car is fun. It's like my old Opel GT in the 70's but a LOT better.
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Automatics are for people who can't drive a stick or don't have the inclination to. And now that autos get better mileage than manuals (usually) the only reason for driving a stick is because you enjoy the experience or you are into some macho "only real men drive sticks" club.
And FWIW, I have two scions and a 4wd Chevy Silverado. Only the Chevy is auto. And it is because my wife and I both drive it on our gravel 1/4 mile driveway with a rather steep hill. The 4wd is smooth and efortless.
My xBox has a stick because you can get more power out of it when it's full of band equipment. It makes a huge difference.
My FRS has a stick because I got the car to have FUN on my 122 mile commute (round trip) and it IS fun. My Chrysler 300M had an auto with manual override that only I used. My wife just stuck it in drive. A manual on that car would really not make much sense, though it would be cool. ;)
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
I don't have an FRS but I drove a tC from 2005-2010. I just graduated college at the time and went with the manual so I could feel/be cool. Every time I ended up in traffic I hated life. When I was doing a commute with it in 09/10 of 65 miles one way, I really friggin hated it. Maybe I'm just old now, but I always say go automatic. Kick back and just enjoy the ride. :p
Then we moved to Kentucky and the motorcyclists paradise, which I drive every day to work - 122 round trip miles. I was still going to get the FRS in a manual but decided I needed to mentally start from scratch. I went with the stick and holy cow am I happy with this car.
I can also push in the clutch on downhills and hypermileage in a way you really can't with an auto. It's gotten me to an average of 32mpg, but when I don't care and just want to have fun, it slaughters the auto.
But if I were still in Seattle, it would be no contest. Auto. Frankly, I probably would not even have gotten the FRS. Probably an xD, also Auto...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,141
From: Maryland
Pretty much. I know there are a lot of different reasons to have an automatic transmission, but on a car like the FR-S, which is engineered for driving enjoyment, a car built for enthusiasts, it is a car requires a proper 3 pedal manual transmission. If the car offered an type of dual clutch manual transmission or SMG like in the MR2 spyder, MAYBE that would be okay, but I hate when cars geared for driving enjoyment are ruined by slushboxes because of people who are too lazy to learn, or too lazy to kick a clutch every day.
Basically, you can teach a monkey to push a gas pedal, but being able to operate a manual transmission separates us from the beasts!
Basically, you can teach a monkey to push a gas pedal, but being able to operate a manual transmission separates us from the beasts!
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Pretty much. I know there are a lot of different reasons to have an automatic transmission, but on a car like the FR-S, which is engineered for driving enjoyment, a car built for enthusiasts, it is a car requires a proper 3 pedal manual transmission. If the car offered an type of dual clutch manual transmission or SMG like in the MR2 spyder, MAYBE that would be okay, but I hate when cars geared for driving enjoyment are ruined by slushboxes because of people who are too lazy to learn, or too lazy to kick a clutch every day.
Basically, you can teach a monkey to push a gas pedal, but being able to operate a manual transmission separates us from the beasts!
Basically, you can teach a monkey to push a gas pedal, but being able to operate a manual transmission separates us from the beasts!
Speaking of lazy…I used to have a 1963 rambler classic with three on the tree. In its final days the linkage on the transmission broke. There was a hole in the floorboard above it for the “custom floor shifter” I installed and the access plate for the tranny was on the top. I removed three of the screws and kept a bic pen handy. When I wanted to change gears, I would slide the top cover out of the way and insert the bic pen into the rail (that the shift fork would use) and manually shift it into gear. I drove it like this for a couple of months before dumping it.
Needless to say, you didn’t want the transmission spinning too fast when you did that or a bit of tranny fluid would fly into the car.
But at least I wasn’t lazy about changing gears. Nope. I was cheap about it… ;)
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 217
From: SATX
I pretty much agree with that. However, to each his own.
Speaking of lazy…I used to have a 1963 rambler classic with three on the tree. In its final days the linkage on the transmission broke. There was a hole in the floorboard above it for the “custom floor shifter” I installed and the access plate for the tranny was on the top. I removed three of the screws and kept a bic pen handy. When I wanted to change gears, I would slide the top cover out of the way and insert the bic pen into the rail (that the shift fork would use) and manually shift it into gear. I drove it like this for a couple of months before dumping it.
Needless to say, you didn’t want the transmission spinning too fast when you did that or a bit of tranny fluid would fly into the car.
But at least I wasn’t lazy about changing gears. Nope. I was cheap about it… ;)
Speaking of lazy…I used to have a 1963 rambler classic with three on the tree. In its final days the linkage on the transmission broke. There was a hole in the floorboard above it for the “custom floor shifter” I installed and the access plate for the tranny was on the top. I removed three of the screws and kept a bic pen handy. When I wanted to change gears, I would slide the top cover out of the way and insert the bic pen into the rail (that the shift fork would use) and manually shift it into gear. I drove it like this for a couple of months before dumping it.
Needless to say, you didn’t want the transmission spinning too fast when you did that or a bit of tranny fluid would fly into the car.
But at least I wasn’t lazy about changing gears. Nope. I was cheap about it… ;)
Automatics are for people who can't properly drive a car, end of story. They were developed to make vehicles easier to drive for the learning impaired.
Yes, they've made huge advancements that now make them more effiicient than manual transmissions, but they're still for people who can't drive cars, and are too lazy to kick a clutch in traffic.
Yes, they've made huge advancements that now make them more effiicient than manual transmissions, but they're still for people who can't drive cars, and are too lazy to kick a clutch in traffic.
What a ____TARD!!!! ... no... must not waste more time... but... no....
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 522
From: Jersey
It all comes down to what you want and need out of your car. Drives me crazy when people hate on cars just for being automatics. Its a pride thing. Some people grow out of it, others don't, as you can see from this thread.
Do what makes you happy and drive what you want.
Do what makes you happy and drive what you want.
