sciontc_mich

I'm kind of confused here with this approach as well as the IIHS' report. How did the laws of physics change from 6 years ago to today? hmm.. THEY DIDNT! Regardless if the tC crashed into a barrier in 2004 or 2020, it'll have the same result!

Kind of funny that one day the tC is safe, and then the next day it's unsafe? Just because of "competition"? Either the car is safe on its own merits or its not! There are NO MOVING STATISTIC MEASUREMENT SCALES in physics! There is in MARKETING! So think about it!

I also love how they conveniently did NOT test for the tC roof strength! Yeah because it's one of the strongest out there!

And the argument about VSC, Traction control, etc. All those features DO NOT help when you do hit something! That's when true crash strength, design, come to show themselves excellent or not. People can talk all they like about crash avoidance, but what happens when it really does happen? Guess all those great names (VSC, TRAC) doesn't really matter anymore, do they?!?

mcbrew

That's not a very good argument. The best thing is to avoid the accident in the first place. VSC is mainly designed to avoid single-car accidents. TRAC is not really a safety feature... it is meant to keep you from getting stuck... particularly when ascending a hill in the snow.

Think of VSC as another safety enhancement... the whole suspension and steering system is designed to help maintain traction, yet you don't see people complaining about that (at least not from a safety standpoint). Tires are designed to grip the road, but you don't see people going out "disabling" their own tires. VSC fills a gap, mainly in that there is no way on a car to manually engage one or two brake calipers at a time. VSC allows this to happen, which adds another level of safety beyond what is otherwise available.

I have a guess on why the rating changed -- maybe the testing procedure changed.

tCscotty

iTrader: (1)

VSC is useless in the 1st gen xB in snow. Especially in deep snow. It really puts a strain on the engine having to fight the VSC. As soon as the front wheels lose the slightest bit of traction and you happen to use the steering wheel. It starts beeping and slowing you down. Then if it under steers in a corner and you need the front wheels to spin to pull the front end in the right direction. It just bogs down and locks the brakes up. I feel like all I do fight it. People have been driving cars way before this stuff and seemed to be able to manage. My fist cars didn't have ABS, TRAC, or VSC. I've been accident free since I've been driving and I've logged a lot of miles during that time.

sciontc_mich

You missed my point completely! What does VSC and TRAC matter at the moment when they cannot help you avoid an accident?!? Then at that point they are NOT crash safety factors! The crash performance then falls on the design of the safety cage, of the chassis/body.

So yes it is a good argument because again, VSC and TRAC only matter to AVOID an accident, doesn't help if you finally do hit something!

mdickson81

I think a big part of the tC now getting a lower rating is that the government continues to up their requirements to meet those ratings. If a some get a 5 star and that it, there is still room to improve as far as safety goes.

808-213-503

Well, since no one read my earlier post, I guess I'll clarify here.

The IIHS is NOT the government. There are two entities that test: IIHS and the NHTSA. The NHTSA is the government, and they issue ratings on a 1-5 star scale, whereas the IIHS is sponsored by insurance companies, and issues a 4-level rating (good/acceptable/marginal/poor).

The previous test where everyone saw 4/5 stars was the NHTSA.

The IIHS uses slightly different tests: offset frontal impact and a rear impact crash. The IIHS rated the tC as marginal only for the rear-impact crash.

So unless you get hit from behind in a tC, you won't have to worry about your brain jerking around in your skull like jello in a bowl. -->

mcbrew

My point is that VSC and TRAC are not meant to make the car safer in a crash. You could say the same thing about your radio, floor mats, or TRD oil cap. TRAC isn't meant to prevent accidents... but VSC is. Not only is it meant to, it does. That has been proven. Just like seat belts... there is going to be a very small number of times when it is actually hindering the situation... but in the vast majority of cases, it is helping.

The best way to regain control in an understeer situation is to regain traction in the front tires, not to make them slip. That's what VSC tries to do.

Viace

"Actually", is spelled wrong.

richmond2000

one thing to remember IIHS is for the INSURANCE industry and they want cars as "safe"
for the standard driver and VSC / tracs etc do work in normal situations they will rate a car lower until the buying public / govt demand it on all cars
two because IIHS is for the insurance industry they will "scale" there results because volvo C30/ ford focus = less pay out than TC they want to shame the TC until we all buy C30 etc

liltofuboix

iTrader: (1)

this is probably why tc's are allowed in canada so i hear

shift_fast

All I can say is SCION must start to catch up on the power curb. The TC has been out for half a decade and really haven't upgrade anything but just looks and performance. Its time for some major upgrades and show what SCIONs are made off. They should get some influence from its cousin, LEXUS.

Renegade

Theres nothing wrong with this, I think the car is alot safer than 350z's and other cars that are quite popular.

shupes31

hey, you remember that jdmlegend was actually a girl? i was in with you on that little dork fest.

engifineer

In a FWD, yes you reduce throttle to correct understeer. But it is not nearly as effective if you dont decrease steering input at the same time ;)

On a RWD, there are MANY cases where you are better off applying MORE throttle. Even when (and mostly when) already in a slide. If there is any sort of slip angle at all involved in the slide, reducing throttle input to "gain traction" in the driving wheels will do just the opposite. And those telling me I am wrong apparently have not ever driven much on slick surfaces. And I grew up on a motocross bike, so I understand the comments made there... applies very little to a 4 wheeled vehicle. I know because when I am autoxing, driving in snow, etc I dont at all handle my car like I would a motocross bike. Those two dynamics are so far different there isnt room here to explain it. Take a RWD out on snow at decent speed and get it in a slide. Now let off the throttle and tell me what happens. It is the WORST thing to do in that situation, period. Apparently some will just keep arguing, but hey.. it is what it is. The object is not always to get full traction back, it is to get the car back on track, even if that means slipping a tire MORE. You guys are confusing what gets the most traction with what straightens the car out more effectively.

There are good things about these systems, but those are mainly due to the fact that the majority are clueless when it comes to an emergency situation. So the so-so effect of VSC systems (and even less than so-so on cars that are not more expensive) is basically better than the terrible effect of the average driver. I have stated more than once that I am not against having these features on a car since most drivers couldnt get themselves out of a slide after a million tries. I just wish they all had a disable feature for the rest of us. And then get into autosports (like autox) and we REALLY want them gone. Wanna go slow through an autox course? Enable VSC It SUCKS when you are really trying to put the car where you want it. And that is considering that the fastest line is to not spin tires and slide out wildly, so this isnt a point about sliding the car around. It is a point about a good driver being more effective without the car interfering ;)

I served as an in-car instructor at a teen driving school our autox club put on. EVERY teen should have to go through that at some point since in general most people do not get a chance to experience an emergency situation until it really happens on the street. By the end of the day my student was naturally reducing throttle and steering input when needed to prevent understeer on a circle element on a skid pad. Earlier in the day she had no clue to even do that.


And I guess I did forget or miss the fact that jdmlegend was a girl

ZOMGXB

ok

ZOMGXB

i

thought of this topic because I had to swerve hard around somebody who spun out on the highway, doing 60 MPH, in snow on Friday

I hit an ice patch and my back end swung out, pointing me right at Mr. Guardrail, and though I know EXACTLY what to do in that situation, before I had even swallowed my gum and started to turn into the skid, my VSC went "VRRRMMMMZZZZZTTTT!" and the car bucked as the ABS did its thing...
...and suddenly the car swung around frontways and I was facing the correct direction again..............and with headlights swinging around wildly in my rearview, I continued on my merry way

and I thought of this topic, and how f*****g disastrous it would have been, if I was an arrogant weenie who thought I knew more about physics and could react faster than the on-board computer, and had actually managed to disable the VSC, thinking i could do better than the car....

...and I thought "gee, I'm glad THAT didn't happen."




the end

hotbox05

This thread is one HORRIBLE excuse for a ____ing contest.

YOU ALL FAIL.

If you want your VSC disabled, disable your ABS.

engifineer

Seriously ?????

And to think of all those times that I corrected the car myself in terrible situations I could have had the mighty VSC to save me

It didnt have to be a _________ contest. But someone here who has read a little about VSC and thinks they understand how it works cant seem to grasp that people are capable of driving JUST as well without it. And those people prefer to do so. And amazingly, have no issues doing so. Hell, my winter car doesnt even have ABS, let alone traction/stability/think for the driver nanny aids (which allow people who know NOTHING about what they are doing to overdrive the situation... up until the point the exceed what those nanny's can do and they are completely SOL)

The funny part is that someone actually thinks that someone saying they can control their car in those situations means they are ARROGANT I would hardly call feeling you can do what drivers should be trained to do (unfortunately most arent due to our horrible drivers ed requirements and classes) anything special.

This thread IS a joke!