xA_Factor

The ES, is indeed, a Camry in a tux....literally. In terms of money only, the Camry XLE is the better bargin.

However, keep in mind that when you buy a Lexus you are buying "the company" as well. You'll be treated quite well at the time of the sale, for warrany work, or for routime service......whether you buy a $29K IS or a $70 LS. There are simply more perks when you buy from an upscale manufacturer like Lexus. These perks are important to some people. There's also the "L" on the grille. For some the ego has to be fed.

Also, the ES has features that are not available on the Camry at any trim level......even though it is a "fancy" Camry.

MightyHalo

The main stream of buyers of an Lexus ES is older and they want a simple looking car....I used to sell cars for a Lexus dealership.....most of the lexus buyers were older.......all the 'younger crowd' want bmw/benz/audi and sportier models....even the new GS wasn't all that when it came out last year.

scionlife

That goes both ways, though... the bill at the Lexus service dept is more painful than at the Toyota service dept. You DO pay for the better service. Of course, the local Lexus dealer has given me nothing but grief while my nearest Toyota/Scion dealer is on the ball. I guess it just comes down to the choice of an emblem after all!

djct_watt

and choice of options

lyrictenor1

Well, the suspension in the ES is much better than the Camry. Where the Camry's suspension is a little floaty and slow w/ transitions, the ES has a firm, well damped suspension, and actually handles quite well for its weight and target demographic (it's not a sporty car by any means). Also, you can't even compare the interiors of the two cars as well as sound dampening

djct_watt

That's what I said.

If the car were completely identical, inside and out, I wouldn't have such a hard time with the ES bashing. But the majority of bashers have never really had time to spend in an ES and Camry, to really see the difference.

Having had a Camry, and having many experience in Lexus loaner cars, I can tell you there is a considerable difference.

Now what is a better bargain and value? The Camry, hands down. But Luxury cars aren't supposed to be a bargain. Back when Lexus was on par with current day Hyundai, it was forced to make itself a bargain. But true luxury is something that is not necessarily "value" priced. You don't think Breitling spends thousands of dollars making their watches do you? Sure, they do spend a bit more time on their watches. . . but they aren't all that different than your good ol' Armitron POS. Did you know that many designer jewelry companies outsource to Fossil to build their watches?

Mechanically, aside from the engine, a Chrysler 300C is a Mercedes Benz E class. But the E class is more than $15k more.

What is the problem with the ES? There is none. The problem is that the Camry is too upscale. That and considering the competition, the Camry is fairly overpriced. . . IMO it overlaps too much with the ES.

The difference between a suit and tuxedo is a few shiny spots, some folds, and the shape/type of tie. Don't tell me that a tux doesn't look 100 times more formal than a suit. But a suit is a much better bargain, no doubt. But nobody wears a suit to go to Walmart. It's not about saving money.

But I like to save money, so I'd probably opt for the Camry anyway. Ha!

xA_Factor

The bottom line is this: The ES exists because there is a demand for it. It's that simple. If nobody bought it, Toyota wouldn't build it. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, some people want the perks you get when you buy a Lexus.

You could make the same argument with the LX470/Land Cruiser, the GX470/V8 4-Runner, and the RX330/Highlander. The LS is the only stand-alone vehilce that doesn't share a platform or sheetmetal with any other North American Toyota.

BTW, I used to work at a large dealership that carried Nissan/Infinity.....exact same setup as Toyota/Lexus......dressed up versions of existing vehilces like the Maxima, Pathfinder and 300ZX (platform only)....The Q being the only stand-alone. The situation was the same......some people just wanted what the "Infinity experience" offered.

One other thing to remember. This is an enthusiast site, which means that we probably read up on a lot of automotive specs, news, media, ect., ect.....much more than the average person does. In other words, you would be surprised at how many people buy a Lexus or Infinity and never know of it's "lower priced" origin.