Official 2011 Scion tC Thread (2nd gen)
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From: Bangkok, Thailand
I wasn't talking about car loans earlier in the post I was talking about banks got short changed when home owners defaulted on loans, and most everyone pointed the finger at variable rate loans as the culprit since most couldn't handle the ever-inflating payments.
Car loans are easier to get, of course. But with the new way they're rating credit scores (I have A grade credit according to my monthly credit report, but recently was downgraded to B grade after the recent changes (not referring to the changes in credit card laws either)), its harder to find 'qualified' buyers. But, yes as you stated, you can always get a cosigner.
And BoFA and Citi did better than other banks, IMO, in partly because they also did retail banking, not just investment banking or insurance.
I would account some of the lack of sales to difficulty getting car loans, but I'm not sure if I'd say its the only thing thats keeping Scion's sales depressed as they are.
Either way, I hope Scion figures out a way to lure back customers.
Another thought that occurred to me is that Scion could turn out to be another Saab-like situation. Saab is like a niche sort of market. Its got its loyalists and enthusiasts, but its not selling millions of cars a year here in the U.S. Maybe Scion is destined to become a similar niche type brand.
Car loans are easier to get, of course. But with the new way they're rating credit scores (I have A grade credit according to my monthly credit report, but recently was downgraded to B grade after the recent changes (not referring to the changes in credit card laws either)), its harder to find 'qualified' buyers. But, yes as you stated, you can always get a cosigner.
And BoFA and Citi did better than other banks, IMO, in partly because they also did retail banking, not just investment banking or insurance.
I would account some of the lack of sales to difficulty getting car loans, but I'm not sure if I'd say its the only thing thats keeping Scion's sales depressed as they are.
Either way, I hope Scion figures out a way to lure back customers.
Another thought that occurred to me is that Scion could turn out to be another Saab-like situation. Saab is like a niche sort of market. Its got its loyalists and enthusiasts, but its not selling millions of cars a year here in the U.S. Maybe Scion is destined to become a similar niche type brand.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
1. Yaris-style manual AC controls with no screen!?!?!
2. Only 1 full auto window?
3. Single level center console? this really ____ed me off
4. ALL PLASTIC handbreak and shift *****?
5. Round shaped shift **** base?
6. Thinner, flatter seats? They also look uncomfortable
7. Circle pattern in seats? WTF? this is not a cherry QQ
8. Driver seat with no inclination adjustment? I mean the round **** we have in our seat
9. Moonroof wind deflector, square shaped? held by 2 wires? redneck looking
10. lol.
At least this will increase my 08 tc resell value
2. Only 1 full auto window?
3. Single level center console? this really ____ed me off
4. ALL PLASTIC handbreak and shift *****?
5. Round shaped shift **** base?
6. Thinner, flatter seats? They also look uncomfortable
7. Circle pattern in seats? WTF? this is not a cherry QQ
8. Driver seat with no inclination adjustment? I mean the round **** we have in our seat
9. Moonroof wind deflector, square shaped? held by 2 wires? redneck looking
10. lol.
At least this will increase my 08 tc resell value
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 507
From: Middle of nowhere, WI
The Fit doesn't cost $5k less than the tC, it's within $2000 (15k vs 17k). It was also up 41% in 2008, when Scion sales were tanking.
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 205
From: Chicago, IL, USA
The Fit doesn't cost $5k less than the tC, it's within $2000 (15k vs 17k). It was also up 41% in 2008, when Scion sales were tanking.
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
People with good credit were fine to buy whatever they wanted, its true, but a great deal of people were not.
I totally agree that the second gen of scions has not been popular or well selling. Someone earlier in this thread attributed that to the departure of the man who headed up scion in the beginning.
The tC2 could be the result of Toyota trimming its belt a little to squeeze through the recession, while putting the dollars it does have towards the launch of the iQ. This seems a bit more feasible, considering the end product we got in the tC2. The interior just smacks of shortcuts and corners that were cut.
Additionally, I've noticed that the Scion brand has severely lagged behind other cars, even domestics, in fuel efficiency which probably hurt them.
Maybe the tC will have some surprise options available when its available on the website to configure that'll make up for it. Personally, I'd love to see an option similar to what the PT Cruiser had where you could color match the interior pieces with the exterior. That could spruce up the widely disliked interior.
Perhaps the OEM lip kit that I hope they offer will bring some additional pizazz to the exterior.
Either way, I'm rooting for them, but I still feel the outlook is a bit grim at the moment for the tC.
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Team Sushi
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,320
From: Bangkok, Thailand
The Fit doesn't cost $5k less than the tC, it's within $2000 (15k vs 17k). It was also up 41% in 2008, when Scion sales were tanking.
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
The recession didn't hit automakers till the 4th qtr 2008. Most companies (especially those with small vehicles) were UP in 2008. My point was that the revised xB and the xD didn't sell as well as their predecessors, and it had nothing to do with the recession.
Loans were easy to get in 2007 and 2009 (we bought a house in November 2007 and refinanced in Jan 2009, and both times sailed through the process). True the banks stopped offering 120% equity loans to people with 550 credit scores and no verifiable income, but for qualified borrowers the money was there.
Flat out, the loans, recession, and all the other problems had zero impact on the rest of the automobile industry, so unless you can somehow single out Scion (parents stopped buying them for their children maybe?) I'll continue to maintain that the 2nd gen vehicles have been worse than their originals at best, and sub-par at worst, and I don't really see that changing with the tC2. The iQ on the other hand, shows real promise...
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 167
From: Los Angeles, CA
I saw the tC in person and honestly the pictures don't do it justice. I also love the interior, it's 2x more comfortable than the current tC. It also has more leg room and headroom but has kept the same exterior dimensions. I talked to the chief engineer and he said that it out performs every car in its class and even cars outside of its class. I think they deserve props for engineering a great driving machine for under 20k that gets better gas mileage and is more comfortable for both driver and passenger. Just my .02
ps. I know we all love the FT-86, but please stop comparing the tC to a car out of its class. The tC was never meant to be a rwd sports car. Oh yeah, and the FT is coming...
ps. I know we all love the FT-86, but please stop comparing the tC to a car out of its class. The tC was never meant to be a rwd sports car. Oh yeah, and the FT is coming...
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,086
From: Kittanning, PA
First off, the Gen coupe costs 22k base price and thats with their turbo 4-cyclinder that does 210. Really? Turbo? Only 210? I can turbo my tC that was 18k base and for 22k total, I can get well over 250hp. Also consider for 19k, you can get a civic si that has 197 hp also. For $500 more you put a few bolt ons to that and you'll get 210.
And that 3.8L V6 is under-horsed also @ 306hp. While I agree that a 94hp increase does warrant an increase in price (in this case 3k to 25k base), its still only 80HP/L. Where as the civic si @ 197 w/2.0L gets 98hp/L. And the Civic is lighter than the Gen Coupe to boot. Now their high end 4.6 V8 on the sedan version also only gets 84HP/L. Still not that great, but this now costs a whopping 33k! This is just a carry over of their abysmal engine design from the Tiburon where we saw a V6 engine with a measly little 173hp.
For 25k, I could buy a 265hp WRX that has 106HP/L and again weighs less (by 700lbs)...and has AWD. Both of which will overcome the 40hp difference.
Part of the reason the awards were given to the car is because this is the first car from HYUNDAI that is actually nearing the 'pretty good' stage. It's also the best car they've made to date. And it shows they're moving in the right direction. But when you compare it to other cars out there and compare metrics of the engine and other aspects, it still falls short of everything else.
So the "$20,000 crowd" has better options out there and they aren't the Gen Coupe.
But for the under 20k crowd, and between the Kia or the Hyundai (or the new tC), I'll still take the Kia. If I'm spending more than 20K, I'm buying a Subaru.
And that 3.8L V6 is under-horsed also @ 306hp. While I agree that a 94hp increase does warrant an increase in price (in this case 3k to 25k base), its still only 80HP/L. Where as the civic si @ 197 w/2.0L gets 98hp/L. And the Civic is lighter than the Gen Coupe to boot. Now their high end 4.6 V8 on the sedan version also only gets 84HP/L. Still not that great, but this now costs a whopping 33k! This is just a carry over of their abysmal engine design from the Tiburon where we saw a V6 engine with a measly little 173hp.
For 25k, I could buy a 265hp WRX that has 106HP/L and again weighs less (by 700lbs)...and has AWD. Both of which will overcome the 40hp difference.
Part of the reason the awards were given to the car is because this is the first car from HYUNDAI that is actually nearing the 'pretty good' stage. It's also the best car they've made to date. And it shows they're moving in the right direction. But when you compare it to other cars out there and compare metrics of the engine and other aspects, it still falls short of everything else.
So the "$20,000 crowd" has better options out there and they aren't the Gen Coupe.
But for the under 20k crowd, and between the Kia or the Hyundai (or the new tC), I'll still take the Kia. If I'm spending more than 20K, I'm buying a Subaru.
Add just brembos to a scion and your already at 21k.. then a LSD your at the same price as a gen coupe (without the turbo) Plus the Gen coupes are Rear wheel drive which IMO is more fun to drive.
I have less than 1k in upgrades on my gen coupe and am already at around 230 whp and 260 lbs of torque, reving out to 7200.
I think the genesis is a strong competitor and you should probably take a second look at it.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,086
From: Kittanning, PA
I saw the tC in person and honestly the pictures don't do it justice. I also love the interior, it's 2x more comfortable than the current tC. It also has more leg room and headroom but has kept the same exterior dimensions. I talked to the chief engineer and he said that it out performs every car in its class and even cars outside of its class. I think they deserve props for engineering a great driving machine for under 20k that gets better gas mileage and is more comfortable for both driver and passenger. Just my .02
ps. I know we all love the FT-86, but please stop comparing the tC to a car out of its class. The tC was never meant to be a rwd sports car. Oh yeah, and the FT is coming...
ps. I know we all love the FT-86, but please stop comparing the tC to a car out of its class. The tC was never meant to be a rwd sports car. Oh yeah, and the FT is coming...
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From: Bangkok, Thailand
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during the peak of the housing bubble, lots of people made the savvy financial move of taking cash out of their house to buy 60k pickup trucks, X5's, G37 coupes and other cars that they couldn't ordinarily afford. Now the party is over, their new ride is something that they can actually afford the payments on. (look at overall car sales this year versus 2006 or 2007)
So maybe a super cheap decontented Scion TC IS the answer for the new reality…. As long as I can roll over the 9k I'm upside down on my current car in to my 72 month loan.
Is it me or does it seem like all the people that hate the new TC are ones that have already moved on to other cars while the people that still own TC's love it.
So maybe a super cheap decontented Scion TC IS the answer for the new reality…. As long as I can roll over the 9k I'm upside down on my current car in to my 72 month loan.
Is it me or does it seem like all the people that hate the new TC are ones that have already moved on to other cars while the people that still own TC's love it.
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Team Sushi
SL Member
Team N.V.S.
Scion Evolution
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,320
From: Bangkok, Thailand
during the peak of the housing bubble, lots of people made the savvy financial move of taking cash out of their house to buy 60k pickup trucks, X5's, G37 coupes and other cars that they couldn't ordinarily afford. Now the party is over, their new ride is something that they can actually afford the payments on. (look at overall car sales this year versus 2006 or 2007)
So maybe a super cheap decontented Scion TC IS the answer for the new reality…. As long as I can roll over the 9k I'm upside down on my current car in to my 72 month loan.
Is it me or does it seem like all the people that hate the new TC are ones that have already moved on to other cars while the people that still own TC's love it.
So maybe a super cheap decontented Scion TC IS the answer for the new reality…. As long as I can roll over the 9k I'm upside down on my current car in to my 72 month loan.
Is it me or does it seem like all the people that hate the new TC are ones that have already moved on to other cars while the people that still own TC's love it.
GREAT. I just made a poll thread, and as I was about to post a POLL it got deleted.
THANKS.