Reactor

Agree.
I'm afraid iQ is gonna flop worse than anything else from Scion. Even though it's not a bad car and has many cool things about it.

mrexotica

The 500 is just like a Yaris/xA underneath (front struts, torsion beam rear axle), but with a fancy body. I raced an xA. It has its limits.

The tC is actually a really nice car. It's more refined than my 1st gen tC (which is a great car)
Has anybody actually driven one before passing judgement? Scion did such a nice job on the 1st gen tC, xB, xA that I think we're a bit biased against the tC2, xB2, & xD. These are nice cars.

They are not as cheap as the first gen & that's the biggest gripe I have.

I think the guy who actually contacted Scion with his thoughts will make the biggest difference, as opposed to everybody else venting on internet forums.

JDMJim

you gotta know wonder, despite the great handling, which most people don't care about, is it worth more money? I think thats the issue with Scion. alot was done for a little. now it's a little for alot honestly. I'd rather go RWD for that money

ChupacabraTX

JDMJim- I found something for you to sink your teeth into...



Oh crap, it's not 1985 and Merkur doesn't exist anymore.

>I have to wonder if our Scion brand that we know will be like this in 26 years.

kahsperr

1. The bB was available in Japan long before we received the xB here in the states. To this day, people still ask me for the old xB.

2. Scion is targeting the Mini Cooper market, not the Smart Car market.

Reactor

They target Mini market? Mini are selling about 50 thousand cars per year and with Fiat 500 ( European Car of 2008 ) available in US, iQ is going to have a tough time targeting that market.

kahsperr

We won't be able to do "Mini Cooper Numbers" but Scion hopes to attract some of Mini Coopers audience. The Fiat will be competition for us too but I think people trust Scion more than Fiat. (At least the American born shoppers)

808-213-503

How do you figure?

The iQ sports a torsion beam rear suspension, the Mini has a multi-link; the iQ is more than 20" shorter than the Mini; the iQ's engine is likely a 1.3L 93HP, for a 24.7 lb/hp ratio, while the Mini's base engine is 1.6L 120HP, for a 21.1 lb/hp ratio; iQ won't even get past $17,000 with all options added, while the Mini can exceed $35,000 on a John Cooper Works model.

Just for kicks, if they use that 93HP engine, by comparison the xB2 has a 19.2 lb/hp ratio.

badbasic

i can wait till summer. after losing the xA it will give me more time to get the down payment required. with Scion its not about mass production ie;corolla, camry, but rather an introduction to Toyota. get'em while they're young w/ Scion and then step up thru the rest of their life w/ Toyota & Lexus.

Reactor

To me, iQ is something less than a real car, honestly. Same as SMART. It's a transportation pod with limited use. Yeah, it looks cool with right paint job and a kit, but you can't put a sub box in it. I can't imagine anyone choosing it over xA, for example. May be if you really need to stand out and drive something unusual just for the hell of it.

JDMJim

Funny you should mention, I've seen more Fiat's on the road in Chicago than I have seen new tC's on the road.

"i can wait till summer. after losing the xA it will give me more time to get the down payment required. with Scion its not about mass production ie;corolla, camry, but rather an introduction to Toyota. get'em while they're young w/ Scion and then step up thru the rest of their life w/ Toyota & Lexus. "

Not here. Toyota has nothing that interests me. I'd like a 1st gen IS300, but they have crazy high miles. Toyota is basically making 1998 Malibu's now. How many of you are running to the car lot for those?

and Chupa, The Ford Sierra/XR4Ti was a good car for it's time. It too was too little too late. American's didn't know what to do with turbo 4 bangers. just like the demise of the Mitsu Starion. Too much technology for us here American's then. But it's smart for Ford to try again. They have good cars in Europe. Not even the Saturn/Opel Astra made it here. Too little too late. Yea, we'll be sittin in our rocking chairs on the porch bench racing Scion's long after they go away. I wonder what the Prius line will do for them.

ChupacabraTX

Overall, the IQ seems to be a pretty nice looking vehicle for people to purchase.

Without seeing one in person or driving one, it's unfair to judge. I drove a tc2, not really my cup of tea but the differences are there from our tc1's. It's a nice car but seems to mock a stock VW a little too much.

The IQ will probably be a good cult car that will take some sales away from Fiat, but Mini...don't bet on it. The following is there and Mini drivers are idiotically prideful even though the cost of ownership is high outside of the warranty. If IQ wins, it will be because of people wanting a new gas-sipping city car.

JDMJim- I definitely agree that Ford should bring more European cars here to sell. Their CEO, Alan Mulally, is a brilliant leader for Ford to have in charge. He has passion around his product because he knows it's darn good. If more auto CEO's want to thrive in a poopy economy, they need charisma and commitment to their product. CALLING ALL WHO ARE NAMED AKIO TOYODA!!!!

richmond2000

or the "pack of freightliner" test

kahsperr

The complicated thing about selling the iQ is that it has to be "Cool" not "Cheap". If Scion aimed to compete directly with the smart car they could wind up producing the next Geo Metro. Scion needs the iQ to obtain a cult like following much like the xB, attracting drivers who want to be different more so than finding the cheapest car. So when I say Scion will hope to obtain a portion of Mini Coopers audience, I say that because they don't see the iQ being the price leader for the Scion lineup but instead a specialty vehicle that younger, more affluent drivers might take a liking to. (Crossing fingers on the "Younger" part) If you've had the chance to check out the iQ in person, you'll understand when I say it's not a "cheap" car. I get to drive one in two weeks, I'll report on my experience afterwards.

kahsperr

Or the Elephant stampede test...

JDMJim

problem with Toyota is really the new recall with the fuel system too. recalls after recalls, after more government fines...well, all that money spent is less to make us some cool cars to keep up with the competition.

Reactor

Toyota should have worried about the market that went to Kia Soul. It is totally Scion's territory to dominate but they blew it.

mrexotica

Chupacabra,
The Ford Sierra (Merkur XR4Ti) was a LEGENDARY racecar in Europe.

As for comparing the iQ to the Mini, we told Scion at the Chicago iQ/tC launch that they were way off their mark. Smart, yes. Mini, no way.

I think, outside this forum, Americans believe a car needs to be a hybrid to get good mileage.

808-213-503

If they added a supercharger to the 1.3L engine, it could be awesome, with good gas mileage to boot. Chop the top off, too, while we're at it.

JDMJim

there was actually a ragtop concept for awhile. don't think we'll see that for awhile.