Orignal Article: http://us.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/10/26/c...ble/index.html
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Consumer Reports: Most reliable cars '06
Nissan, Hyundai have models in both the highest and lowest ranks; hybrids do well.

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can't just put their faith in a trusted brand name when it comes to looking for a new car.

Nissan and Hyundai had models in both the highest and lowest rankings of Consumer Reports predicted-reliability survey this year, according to the magazine.

Nissan's luxury brand, Infiniti, had two of the most reliable models -- the Infiniti M35 and M45. But four Nissan cars -- the Nissan Quest, Armada and Titan and and Infiniti QX56 -- landed on the list of worst for predicted reliability. (Click on car names for vehicle details and images.)

For Hyundai, Consumer Reports predicted, the Hyundai Tucson SUV will likely have poor reliability, while theSanta Fe SUV and and the Elantra should have average reliability. Reliability for the newly redesigned Sonata remains unknown.

"The message to consumers is clear: You can't gauge reliability based only on a nameplate. Some automakers do have a better track record but individual models -- especially newer ones -- can have some problems," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center, in a statement. "New-car buyers should always check our reliability rating for the model they're buying."

Of the 31 cars that earned the top rating, only two were from U.S.-based manufacturers -- the remaining 29 vehicles were from Japanese automakers, and none represented European brands. Almost half of the top 31 -- 15 vehicles -- were manufactured by Toyota.

Of the vehicles with the worst reliability, 22 were from U.S.-based manufacturers, 20 from European brands, four from Japanese makers and two from South Korean companies.

Hybrid models turned in above-average results, despite their complex mechanical drivetrains. Hybrids use both gasoline engines and electric motors that run on batteries charged by the gasoline engine.

Consumer Reports surveyed the owners of more than a million vehicles. Owners were surveyed through the magazine's Web site and through surveys mailed to subscribers. To calculate predicted reliability for 2006 model-year vehicles, the magazine averaged overall reliability scores for the last three model years, provided that the vehicle remained substantially unchanged over that time. For vehicles that were new or substantially redesigned during that time, data from the just one or two years was used.

Best predicted reliability:

(As calculated by Consumer Reports)

Small cars:

Toyota Echo

Honda Civic (2005)

Toyota Prius

Honda Civic Hybrid (2005)

Toyota Corolla

Subaru Impreza (non-turbo)

Sporty cars/Convertibles Coupes:

Honda S2000

Mazda MX-5 Miata (2005)

Lexus SC430

Chevrolet Monte Carlo (2005)

Sedans:

Lexus GS300/GS430*

Infiniti M35/M45*

Lexus IS300 (2005)

Honda Accord Hybrid*

Toyota Camry

Honda Accord 4-cyl.

Lexus LS430

Wagons:

Toyota Matrix

Minivans:

(None rated "Best")

Small SUVs:

Toyota Rav4 (2005)

Honda CR-V

Honda Element

Subaru Forester

Mercury Mariner*

Mitsubishi Outlander

Mid-sized SUVs:

Lexus RX400h (hybrid)*

Toyota Highlander

Toyota 4Runner (V-

Infiniti FX35

Large SUVs:

Toyota Land Cruiser

Pick-up trucks:

Honda Ridgeline*

Toyota Tundra

 

I work for Toyota and the Corolla is garbage. They have so many problems with those cars.

-Fuel pumps
-Bad ECU's
-Window runs
-Trannys
-Interiors quality

 

You are out of your mind. The Corolla is a great car. Hell, I even own one of them.

 

Here at the dealership I work at...Corollas account close to 46% of our warranty claims. They are problematic...not saying all, but MOST.

 

My dad has had 4 Corollas, I've had one and my sister has had one. We never had any problems out of any of them.

My neighbor bought one because we had all had such good luck with ours. His floor board leaks, the rear view mirror was off center, and front driver side door wasn't aligned properly.

 

If what you all say about Corollas is true, it's sad. My family has had five Corollas (1989, 1995, 1999, 2000, and 2003), all of which have run flawlessly.

 

I loved my Corolla. I would still be driving it if I hadn't totaled it.

 

YOu may be right. . . you may be wrong. IMO, I think you are thinking about it in the wrong way.

What car sells really well for Toyota? The Corolla and the Camry. Since there are soooo many more Corolla's out there than Echo's, Celica's, and yada yada, they are going to be a higher percentage of the repairs. So just because you see a lot of Corolla's in the shop, doesn't mean that they are problematic. . . it just means that there are a lot of Corolla's out there. You have to count the problems per capita. . . meaning the amount of problems in relation to the number of Corolla's out there. If there was anything close to a high percentage of problems, you'd have a two year waiting list of cars waiting to get serviced (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point).

Furthermore, cars are assembled on an assembly line. . . therefore, the problematic areas are going to be shared with other cars from the same plant. . . so say the motor blows at 400,000miles on one car. . . it's very likely that the other cars from the same plant of the same model will have the same problem (likely, but not always true).

It's like working in a tire shop and saying the Ford F-150 is the worst truck in the world because they always need new tires. . . which is false (for that reason anyway). THe fact is that there are more F-150's out there, thus more will be in the tire shop. Get it?
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But to your credit, I hated the 98-02 Corolla's. . . the generation before the new one. Those things were horrible. I've driven the new Corolla Altis. . . but it was the one domestically built in Thailand (looks identical). It was a sweet drive. Even my buddy's 05 Corolla is holding up real well. . . also had a 94 Corolla in the family back in the day, and the thing was tough as nails.

 

Can't believe CR is still classifying the Prius as a "small" car. It is almost identical in exterior size to a Camry, with more interior space and it is easily as a big as the Accord hybrid. The first-gen Prius you could say is small but not Gen 2.

Friends can't believe how much room is inside it when they sit in the front or back.
Saying that I'd much rather roll around in my 05 box: the Prius windshield is just too angular for me now that I'm used to an almost vertical orientation with the xB's greenhouse.

 

Wow, must be an Orlando thing. They're nearly bulletproof in Arizona.

Why are your dealership's statistics so far out of line with national averages?

 

So Corolla's account for 46% of warranty claims. . . I have no idea what that 46% is. . . is it out of passenger cars, or Toyota cars period? Let's get an analysis/breakdown using 2005 sales figures from [url]http://www.toyota.com/about/news/corporate/2005/10/03-1-sales.html[url]. I'm going to round to the nearest thousand, to make it simple.

Toyota, as a brand, sold 156K vehicles (trucks and cars).
Of that, 97K were passenger vehicles.
Of that, 29K were Corollas.

So: of all Toyota vehicles, 18.6% are Corolla's
And of passenger vehicles, 30% are Corolla's.

Again, the number you quoted is kinda hard to use. . . nothing tangible. Give me a link, and I can put in more input.

Furthermore, I would have to reasonably assume that Corolla's statistically accumulate more miles than other Toyota vehicles (not counting trucks). It's a commute vehicle, and is a reasonable assumption, IMO. I could do more research, but I am lazy.

Now if you can assume that Corolla's accumulate more mileage, you should already have some idea where I'm going with this. The reason you have a mileage cap on a warrantee is that the statistical odds of warrantee repairs increases with mileage. Therefore, if Corolla's are being driven more than say. . . Avalon's or MR-2 Spyders, then you're going to see more warrantee repairs.

YES, it is interesting that Corolla's make up 46% of repairs, but that figure means absolutely JACK. There are far more variables than that to consider.

If somebody wants to shut down this myth for good, just look up the problems reported per hundred for the Corolla. I'd almost be willing to bet that it's lower than the Prius. And even if the Corolla was the worst Toyota car, relative to other Toyota's, it doesn't mean the car is unreliable. The crucial figure isn't how many you see in the shop, it's how many are in the shop relative to the total amount of Corolla's made.

 

Ok...so....
The reason I see so many Accords and Exploders in my shop is because there are so many of them on the roads.

And

The reason I see so many BMWs is because they are a POS, I suppose it all makes sense now...

 

No, actually. Thanks for mocking me, but you have it wrong. Logic dictates that you because A -> B, you cannot assume B -> A.

All I was saying was that the number of cars of a certain type, in a shop, means absolutely didly squat. If there were 15 billion Corolla's, and only 3 whole cars of any other type on the road, you would see more Corolla's in need of repair. That's an exaggeration, but it's used to make my point. And in addition to total vehicle population, you have to consider average driven miles, the driving habits of their average drivers. There is a LOT MORE to consider. . .

 

Oh yea

h, and BMW's do have a high rate of problems, relative to the total vehicle production. . . in fact, they scored very close to Hyundai. . . and I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me on it, but I do believe that Hyundai fared better in quality tests and scores.

 

This discussion went exactly as I thought it might.

Law of Large Numbers - More Corollas on the road, higher percentage of Corollas in the shop with issues.

So, to reiterate, Corollas, as it turns out, ARE great cars, and 40 years of sales history still backs that up.

 

FINALLY, someone who understands what I'm talking about!

 

no prob. on top of that, there are way too many variables to consider with that "46%"... maybe all the people that have celicas and tacomas and whatnot like to work out their own problems rather than resort to the dealership a.s.a.p...

 

. . . and don't forget about mileage.