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Old 07-15-2006, 03:19 PM
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Default Will Toyota make a play for GM?


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Could Renault and Nissan have a competitor in their effort to form an alliance with General Motors? Top executives at Toyota Motor are mulling their own overture to GM to head off rival Nissan from forging an alliance that could help the Japanese-French car company, according to people with knowledge of the Japanese auto maker's plans. ...

WASHINGTON TESTIMONY. One source familiar with Toyota's strategy said that an equity tie-up like the one GM investor Kirk Kerkorian has proposed between GM and Renault-Nissan would be unlikely. "It's not in their culture," he said.

General Motors and Toyota have long worked together, albeit in a limited way. The two jointly operate an assembly plant in Freemont, Calif., where the Toyota Corolla, Matrix, and Tacoma pickup are assembled under the same roof as the Pontiac Vibe.
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Old 07-15-2006, 03:33 PM
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Whoever buys GM will probably have to deal with the UAW union. That is whats killing American auto manufacturers. And this is coming from a Union guy. (retail clerks)

Here's an example;

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-351179.htm

12,000 union members being paid their full salery not to work.
What other company has to deal with this? Not Toyota.

it's all about the money.
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Old 07-15-2006, 03:37 PM
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Who ever buys out GM (If a buy out occurs) will just cut the union out.
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Old 07-15-2006, 06:05 PM
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The Matrix is not produced at NUMMI.

Sorry...just had to correct that.
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Old 07-15-2006, 07:46 PM
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I'm a contracted employee at chrysler, and most of the union empoyees don't do much of anything. Sleep, surf the net, crosswords, play cards, ect... at an average hourly rate of $28 to $48 per hour!!! I get hassled for driving an import, only most of them don't know it's actually a Toyota! If they did bad things would happen to my baby!!!
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Old 07-15-2006, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xA_Factor
The Matrix is not produced at NUMMI.
Correct. Many of the parts for the Pontiac Vibe are produced there, another runaway GM success <snicker>.
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Old 07-16-2006, 12:00 AM
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this has been all over the place with Gm, Renault and Nissan. To me, why would someone who owns a ton of shares of Gm want an alliance with Nissan? I can see it with Toyota, but not Nissan and Renualt; unless they come up with something to make it their while. I think Gm should play it about by themselves for while. The next two-three years, Gm is coming out with some really nice cars, trucks and SUV's. Saturn is changing it's who line-up and image, you have the new Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave. Chevy is trying to have the new Camaro come out two years before it's projected 2009 release date.
Gm should just wait it out for a few years to see if these new, anticipated products turn out to be the need help that they needed.

My favorite site for Gm news: www.gminsidenews.com
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Old 07-16-2006, 02:42 PM
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But GM, Renault and Nissan already merged, I saw it on TV yesterday the 15.
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:17 PM
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toyota needs to buy out nissan :D
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Old 07-16-2006, 08:34 PM
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If they do that, That company would eat **** all day LOOONG!
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:51 PM
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The only thing Toyota will do is buy the assets of GM for pennies on the dollar out of bankruptcy.
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by peteyd
toyota needs to buy out nissan :D
I'd hope not

well as long as they dont make them start churning out boring lifeless econo-sedans....I could just imagine them murdering the Altima ....yeah, toyota doesn't need to take over the automotive world
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Old 07-18-2006, 02:02 AM
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I've been thinking about a Toy takeover of the General for several years. I don't think it would be good for Toy. I think there'd be too much backlash that would end up hurting their bottom line more than if they just stand back and let what happens happen. But I'm often wrong.
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by koasterking
this has been all over the place with Gm, Renault and Nissan. To me, why would someone who owns a ton of shares of Gm want an alliance with Nissan? I can see it with Toyota, but not Nissan and Renualt; unless they come up with something to make it their while. I think Gm should play it about by themselves for while. The next two-three years, Gm is coming out with some really nice cars, trucks and SUV's. Saturn is changing it's who line-up and image, you have the new Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave. Chevy is trying to have the new Camaro come out two years before it's projected 2009 release date.
Gm should just wait it out for a few years to see if these new, anticipated products turn out to be the need help that they needed.

My favorite site for Gm news: www.gminsidenews.com
you have a good point, but the problem is with quality and the fact that american companies sell better cars overseas than they do over here domestically...its funny how times have changed b/c just about 50 years ago japanese cars were considered inferior...but look at them now...not even that but the korean car market is also making improvements in quality....also american car companies should stop trying to rip off american concumers, they would actually make some sales....for example the Ford GT only costs about $50k to make, but its sold at $150k...thats a profit of $100K right there...they also need to upgrade the interior meterials as well...most american cars "feel" cheap, but they sure do look nice...i love the way the new mustangs look...the retro looks just brings back the muscle car era n the chevy camaro look sweet too...if american companies would just change there image a lil bit and actually improve the quality of their cars....they're sales would actually go up.
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:58 PM
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this just in:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2006/...partner=alerts

Toyota has no interest in blocking or joining the proposed partnership between General Motors and the Renault-Nissan alliance, the Japanese automaker's president said Thursday.

The remarks from Toyota Motor Corp. President Katsuaki Watanabe come at a time when GM is in talks about a possible partnership with an alliance between Renault SA of France and Nissan Motor Co.

Speculation has been growing that Toyota may be considering proposing to General Motors Corp. an alternative option for a partnership, perhaps to block Japanese rival Nissan's growth ambitions.

Watanabe said he didn't want to comment about talks among other automakers but denied Toyota was interested in joining the proposed mega-alliance.

"We are not thinking about participating," he told reporters at a Tokyo hotel when asked about whether Toyota may either join or block the talks among GM, Renault and Nissan.

Watanabe also bowed in apology at the news conference to express regrets - but not acknowledging wrongdoing - for troubles linked to a criminal investigation into a recall case in 2004.

"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," he said. "I want to apologize deeply for the troubles we have caused."

Prosecutors are investigating whether Toyota officials hid defects that may have caused a head-on collision in 2004 that injured five people.

Toyota has cooperated with General Motors in a few endeavors over the years, including developing ecological technology. The companies also jointly operate an auto plant in Fremont, California, called New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., or NUMMI, which was set up in 1984.

Watanabe said NUMMI and other friendly ties with GM will continue unchanged, but he said he does not foresee new tie-ups involving major stakes for his company.

When questioned by a reporter, Watanabe acknowledged Toyota remains open to such possibilities under different conditions. He refused to say what those conditions may be. He said he has not talked with GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner since March.

Outside of its group of Japanese subsidiaries, Toyota does not have any auto alliances involving holding stakes.

The GM talks with Renault-Nissan began last week, after prodding by billionaire shareholder Kirk Kerkorian, and what may emerge remains unclear.

Joining together GM, Renault and Nissan would produce a mega-alliance like no other, spanning the three big auto markets of the world - Europe, Japan and the U.S. - with a combined annual production of 15 million vehicles.

Carlos Ghosn, who heads both Renault and Nissan, has said the cooperation should involve holding stakes in each other's company. But Ghosn has denied he wants Wagoner's job.

General Motors, which lost $10.6 billion last year, has been battered by staggering health care costs for its workers, retirees and family as it fights to maintain market share eroded by rivals, especially Japanese automakers.

Toyota, meanwhile, has recently seen its sterling reputation sullied by a series of recalls, and Watanabe apologized Thursday for troubles related a police investigation into the August 2004 accident and subsequent recall.
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AtC2nv
Originally Posted by koasterking
this has been all over the place with Gm, Renault and Nissan. To me, why would someone who owns a ton of shares of Gm want an alliance with Nissan? I can see it with Toyota, but not Nissan and Renualt; unless they come up with something to make it their while. I think Gm should play it about by themselves for while. The next two-three years, Gm is coming out with some really nice cars, trucks and SUV's. Saturn is changing it's who line-up and image, you have the new Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave. Chevy is trying to have the new Camaro come out two years before it's projected 2009 release date.
Gm should just wait it out for a few years to see if these new, anticipated products turn out to be the need help that they needed.

My favorite site for Gm news: www.gminsidenews.com
you have a good point, but the problem is with quality and the fact that american companies sell better cars overseas than they do over here domestically...its funny how times have changed b/c just about 50 years ago japanese cars were considered inferior...but look at them now...not even that but the korean car market is also making improvements in quality....also american car companies should stop trying to rip off american concumers, they would actually make some sales....for example the Ford GT only costs about $50k to make, but its sold at $150k...thats a profit of $100K right there...they also need to upgrade the interior meterials as well...most american cars "feel" cheap, but they sure do look nice...i love the way the new mustangs look...the retro looks just brings back the muscle car era n the chevy camaro look sweet too...if american companies would just change there image a lil bit and actually improve the quality of their cars....they're sales would actually go up.
It's hard to say that japanese cars are better than american cars when it comes to quality. Some companies like Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan fell below the industry avarage in JD Power's and Associates initial quality survey. Even European cars like BMW, Merc. Benz and VW were below as well. If you look at the grand scope of things, each company has it highs and it's lows. And they are all trying to improve their image and issues.
And for American cars feeling cheap....the interior of my scion feels cheap; hard plastic. But, that's what i get for a $13/$14k car. I'm not going to get Lexus, Caddy, BMW, etc quality. Again, everyone's improving.

Ok, if thise alliance does go through, i can see it as a threat to Toyota. Both comanies will have something to give and learn to each other and that will probably result in some interesting products. But we can only wait and see what they want from each other. The only question is, do you think it will go through


Only a thought here but can you imagine a Skyline engine in the new camaro? Or a small block in a Maxima? would be weird.
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Old 07-22-2006, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by koasterking
Originally Posted by AtC2nv
Originally Posted by koasterking
this has been all over the place with Gm, Renault and Nissan. To me, why would someone who owns a ton of shares of Gm want an alliance with Nissan? I can see it with Toyota, but not Nissan and Renualt; unless they come up with something to make it their while. I think Gm should play it about by themselves for while. The next two-three years, Gm is coming out with some really nice cars, trucks and SUV's. Saturn is changing it's who line-up and image, you have the new Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave. Chevy is trying to have the new Camaro come out two years before it's projected 2009 release date.
Gm should just wait it out for a few years to see if these new, anticipated products turn out to be the need help that they needed.

My favorite site for Gm news: www.gminsidenews.com
you have a good point, but the problem is with quality and the fact that american companies sell better cars overseas than they do over here domestically...its funny how times have changed b/c just about 50 years ago japanese cars were considered inferior...but look at them now...not even that but the korean car market is also making improvements in quality....also american car companies should stop trying to rip off american concumers, they would actually make some sales....for example the Ford GT only costs about $50k to make, but its sold at $150k...thats a profit of $100K right there...they also need to upgrade the interior meterials as well...most american cars "feel" cheap, but they sure do look nice...i love the way the new mustangs look...the retro looks just brings back the muscle car era n the chevy camaro look sweet too...if american companies would just change there image a lil bit and actually improve the quality of their cars....they're sales would actually go up.
It's hard to say that japanese cars are better than american cars when it comes to quality. Some companies like Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan fell below the industry avarage in JD Power's and Associates initial quality survey. Even European cars like BMW, Merc. Benz and VW were below as well. If you look at the grand scope of things, each company has it highs and it's lows. And they are all trying to improve their image and issues.
And for American cars feeling cheap....the interior of my scion feels cheap; hard plastic. But, that's what i get for a $13/$14k car. I'm not going to get Lexus, Caddy, BMW, etc quality. Again, everyone's improving.

Ok, if thise alliance does go through, i can see it as a threat to Toyota. Both comanies will have something to give and learn to each other and that will probably result in some interesting products. But we can only wait and see what they want from each other. The only question is, do you think it will go through


Only a thought here but can you imagine a Skyline engine in the new camaro? Or a small block in a Maxima? would be weird.
thanks for the info...point well taken
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by koasterking
It's hard to say that japanese cars are better than american cars when it comes to quality. Some companies like Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan fell below the industry avarage in JD Power's and Associates initial quality survey. Even European cars like BMW, Merc. Benz and VW were below as well. If you look at the grand scope of things, each company has it highs and it's lows. And they are all trying to improve their image and issues.
And for American cars feeling cheap....the interior of my scion feels cheap; hard plastic. But, that's what i get for a $13/$14k car. I'm not going to get Lexus, Caddy, BMW, etc quality. Again, everyone's improving.
When I think reliability, I think Toyota and Honda ONLY. Maybe include Subaru, too. The rest, although probably marginally better than GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler, aren't anywhere near in Toyota's and Honda's league. And JD Power's Intial Quality survery is meaningless-when I think realibility, I think 3, 5, 7 years down the line, not 90 days, which is what that measures. JD Powers does have a 3 year relaibility score, and, of course, Consumer Reports, both of which give good marks to Toyota.

As for cheap interiors, have you ever sat in a Chevy Cobalt? Ick. My xA is miles away from that.
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Old 07-22-2006, 06:01 AM
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If they were truely making 100k profit per ford gt dont you think they'd keep producing them?
Originally Posted by AtC2nv
Originally Posted by koasterking
this has been all over the place with Gm, Renault and Nissan. To me, why would someone who owns a ton of shares of Gm want an alliance with Nissan? I can see it with Toyota, but not Nissan and Renualt; unless they come up with something to make it their while. I think Gm should play it about by themselves for while. The next two-three years, Gm is coming out with some really nice cars, trucks and SUV's. Saturn is changing it's who line-up and image, you have the new Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave. Chevy is trying to have the new Camaro come out two years before it's projected 2009 release date.
Gm should just wait it out for a few years to see if these new, anticipated products turn out to be the need help that they needed.

My favorite site for Gm news: www.gminsidenews.com
you have a good point, but the problem is with quality and the fact that american companies sell better cars overseas than they do over here domestically...its funny how times have changed b/c just about 50 years ago japanese cars were considered inferior...but look at them now...not even that but the korean car market is also making improvements in quality....also american car companies should stop trying to rip off american concumers, they would actually make some sales....for example the Ford GT only costs about $50k to make, but its sold at $150k...thats a profit of $100K right there...they also need to upgrade the interior meterials as well...most american cars "feel" cheap, but they sure do look nice...i love the way the new mustangs look...the retro looks just brings back the muscle car era n the chevy camaro look sweet too...if american companies would just change there image a lil bit and actually improve the quality of their cars....they're sales would actually go up.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Geotpf
Originally Posted by koasterking
It's hard to say that japanese cars are better than american cars when it comes to quality. Some companies like Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan fell below the industry avarage in JD Power's and Associates initial quality survey. Even European cars like BMW, Merc. Benz and VW were below as well. If you look at the grand scope of things, each company has it highs and it's lows. And they are all trying to improve their image and issues.
And for American cars feeling cheap....the interior of my scion feels cheap; hard plastic. But, that's what i get for a $13/$14k car. I'm not going to get Lexus, Caddy, BMW, etc quality. Again, everyone's improving.
When I think reliability, I think Toyota and Honda ONLY. Maybe include Subaru, too. The rest, although probably marginally better than GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler, aren't anywhere near in Toyota's and Honda's league. And JD Power's Intial Quality survery is meaningless-when I think realibility, I think 3, 5, 7 years down the line, not 90 days, which is what that measures. JD Powers does have a 3 year relaibility score, and, of course, Consumer Reports, both of which give good marks to Toyota.

As for cheap interiors, have you ever sat in a Chevy Cobalt? Ick. My xA is miles away from that.
Open your mind up?

http://12.155.133.142/corporate/news...df/2006082.pdf

Look yourself, it maybe 90 days, but mitsu, chevy, nissan, and Lincoln( ) have bested Scion, and *GASP* Hyundai bested Toyo(now they lost me there, but okay)

But nevertheless, I'm all for Nissan and GM forming an alliance, nothing but good can come from them, who knows, maybe even a Carlos Ghosn like turn around of GM financially? wishful thinking
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