Modifying your new car (HIDDEN COSTS)
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Louisville, KY
Modifying your new car (HIDDEN COSTS)
While I am a new guy from Louisville, KY and therefore assumed that I'm one of the new haters on ZPI or whomever else. I see one thing in common with you guys and some of the honda people I tend to help. Alot of you are young and don't know a whole lot about cars, you don't understand the hidden costs required with modifying your car and the extra maintanence required. This thread is to serve as helping some of you guys and to help you create a goal for your car and then working to get it.
This thread will serve to discuss getting more power from your car. Just an FYI, i'm writting this based on my experiences and judgements on costs.
Step 1. Determine a goal and research, research, research how much it will cost and if you can afford this.
Step 2. After picking out a goal and researching and finding the total cost. Add 20-30% more money, as you underestimated.
Step 3. if you said build motor and get a big nasty turbo, add another 20% to that figure.
Step 4. if you said finance with a credit card during any part of this and have an interest rate of over 10% and/or you work part time and have a tendancy to change jobs, stop now and don't mod your car.
On to the topic:
Basic-Bolt ons:
alot of times the first thing that people do is add an intake & exhaust. AEM CAI go for around 150-250 bucks and an exhaust can go from 150 to 700 depending on brand, etc. What does this do, 1. makes more noise in engine bay & makes car louder. 2. it might give you some more power
Say you take it a step further and add a header. The goal here is to have proper exhaust sizing. You don't want to bottleneck your exhaust. It should start at one size and continue at that size or get mildly bigger. On an N/A car if you run a 3in exhaust you will lose back pressure and therefore lose power. With an I/H/E and a high-flow cat/test pipe you might have 10 more whp and like 3 more wlbs. so you dropped between 1500-2k and basicly got alot more noise, but its still fun to drive.
Parts
Intake (100-250)
header (200-1000)
Exhaust (250-700)
Cat/TP (50-100)
Turbo/Supercharger
Going to the dark side is expensive. I used to say run an FMU or vafc hack, now i just say get a standalone or freeware.
Turbo
Basicly a turbo is just a bolt on, you need to run some oil lines and get an intercooler to cool down the charge temps. Running boost on a stock engine can be risky, yet if you have proper engine management and a good tuner, you can get a reliable car. The risks are rod failure and getting a very expensive coffee table. Everyone has seen that power can be made and bolting on a turbo isn't very hard.
The big hidden costs with a turbo setup are small things, engine mount inserts, a better clutch, suspension (springs, shockes, etc), new tires alot more often. Not to mention you need to keep a better eye on the car now, check oil levels more, check coolant color & levels. Adding boost to a car that was never expected to have boost isn't that easy. Also, you want to have atleast a 2.5in exhaust on these boosted cars, so if you went and bought a header & 60mm exhaust, well tough, but that needs to go. So that's useless money that was spent for nothing, due to not planning in the first place.
Superchargers
Same basic stuff as above, but superchargers are driven off a bet to push air into the motor. most superchargers are purchased in a kit and therefore are pretty complete. You've got basicly one option, TRD. The main thing to keep in mind is you still need engine management with both to get maximum performance & reliability. We know that TRD will come with a reflash for the ECU, so you should be good to go in terms of reliability. But i'm sure it will run pig rich and pull out alot of timing, so maybe getting an e-manage or some other safc or soemthing may help to clean up the curve.
the great thing about a S/C is that you know that header & exhaust you bought, well you can probably keep it with the S/Cer rather than just taking it off and attempting to sell or discard.
Again, I'm a honda person at heart and have attempted to adapt this to fit the scion community. The key is, you bolt on a turbo kit, its not something you can just forget about. You need to keep up on your oil changes, you need to constantly be aware of how your spark plugs are reading. you need to keep the igniton system fresh, with new wires, cap, rotor, etc. You will need to changes plugs more often, as I assume you will want to drop to a colder spark plug to prevent detonation.
This thread will serve to discuss getting more power from your car. Just an FYI, i'm writting this based on my experiences and judgements on costs.
Step 1. Determine a goal and research, research, research how much it will cost and if you can afford this.
Step 2. After picking out a goal and researching and finding the total cost. Add 20-30% more money, as you underestimated.
Step 3. if you said build motor and get a big nasty turbo, add another 20% to that figure.
Step 4. if you said finance with a credit card during any part of this and have an interest rate of over 10% and/or you work part time and have a tendancy to change jobs, stop now and don't mod your car.
On to the topic:
Basic-Bolt ons:
alot of times the first thing that people do is add an intake & exhaust. AEM CAI go for around 150-250 bucks and an exhaust can go from 150 to 700 depending on brand, etc. What does this do, 1. makes more noise in engine bay & makes car louder. 2. it might give you some more power
Say you take it a step further and add a header. The goal here is to have proper exhaust sizing. You don't want to bottleneck your exhaust. It should start at one size and continue at that size or get mildly bigger. On an N/A car if you run a 3in exhaust you will lose back pressure and therefore lose power. With an I/H/E and a high-flow cat/test pipe you might have 10 more whp and like 3 more wlbs. so you dropped between 1500-2k and basicly got alot more noise, but its still fun to drive.
Parts
Intake (100-250)
header (200-1000)
Exhaust (250-700)
Cat/TP (50-100)
Turbo/Supercharger
Going to the dark side is expensive. I used to say run an FMU or vafc hack, now i just say get a standalone or freeware.
Turbo
Basicly a turbo is just a bolt on, you need to run some oil lines and get an intercooler to cool down the charge temps. Running boost on a stock engine can be risky, yet if you have proper engine management and a good tuner, you can get a reliable car. The risks are rod failure and getting a very expensive coffee table. Everyone has seen that power can be made and bolting on a turbo isn't very hard.
The big hidden costs with a turbo setup are small things, engine mount inserts, a better clutch, suspension (springs, shockes, etc), new tires alot more often. Not to mention you need to keep a better eye on the car now, check oil levels more, check coolant color & levels. Adding boost to a car that was never expected to have boost isn't that easy. Also, you want to have atleast a 2.5in exhaust on these boosted cars, so if you went and bought a header & 60mm exhaust, well tough, but that needs to go. So that's useless money that was spent for nothing, due to not planning in the first place.
Superchargers
Same basic stuff as above, but superchargers are driven off a bet to push air into the motor. most superchargers are purchased in a kit and therefore are pretty complete. You've got basicly one option, TRD. The main thing to keep in mind is you still need engine management with both to get maximum performance & reliability. We know that TRD will come with a reflash for the ECU, so you should be good to go in terms of reliability. But i'm sure it will run pig rich and pull out alot of timing, so maybe getting an e-manage or some other safc or soemthing may help to clean up the curve.
the great thing about a S/C is that you know that header & exhaust you bought, well you can probably keep it with the S/Cer rather than just taking it off and attempting to sell or discard.
Again, I'm a honda person at heart and have attempted to adapt this to fit the scion community. The key is, you bolt on a turbo kit, its not something you can just forget about. You need to keep up on your oil changes, you need to constantly be aware of how your spark plugs are reading. you need to keep the igniton system fresh, with new wires, cap, rotor, etc. You will need to changes plugs more often, as I assume you will want to drop to a colder spark plug to prevent detonation.
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Scikotics
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I am thinking of just getting an intake and exhaust. Are there any problems or things that i should be aware of??? This is my first car that i have modded and fairly new to the scene so any kind of input would be great. I am still deciding on the injen or K&N intake because i feel the AEM is never coming out!!!! Any advice on either??? Also i will be waiting for a Full catback exhaust to come out, possibly from magnaflow...if ever. I hate having to wait but not sure if i want to spend crazy $$$ on a custom set-up....ya know.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 219
From: Indiana
K series motors are showing HUGE power gains on 3in vs 2.5in exhaust N/A. Back pressure is NEVER a good thing, not on n/a engines, not on turbo engines, not on your lawnmower (well maybe, but 2 stroke is a different story). It's the scavenging effect. The biggest power gains will be shown through the least restrictive exhaust. However, you will lose some torque because of the absence of velocity at the lower rpm's.
The only advice I would give is this. Magic brand names like Greddy, AEM, or Tanabe don't make the parts perform well. Research and understand what it is about the design of the part that makes them perform to your needs. Don't buy a part just for the name, there are plenty of hole-in-the-wall shops that can duplicate something for half the cost. Don't buy it because it's the most expensive, that doesn't mean it's the best.
EDIT: I will also vouch for his pricing scheme. You will run into things if you modify your car enough that will cost you money. For instance, I swapped a new transmission into my car for this season. Supposed to be a straight forward, bolt on deal. I spent weeks shipping part of the transmission back to the guy that built it because his sub-contractor didn't set the tolerances right. This cost me shipping money, thankfully it wasn't a heavy part. Plan on stripping out a few bolts, having to buy tools and other disposable supplies (RTV, gaskets, etc), having oil spills to clean up, etc.
Nothing in the aftermarket fit's either. There is no such thing as a bolt-on part. If you find one, let me know, as I haven't yet. From Honda's to Nissan to Toyota to Mitsu, the majority of aftermarket parts produced require some sort of tweaking or modifying to fit properly. Plan on this.
The only advice I would give is this. Magic brand names like Greddy, AEM, or Tanabe don't make the parts perform well. Research and understand what it is about the design of the part that makes them perform to your needs. Don't buy a part just for the name, there are plenty of hole-in-the-wall shops that can duplicate something for half the cost. Don't buy it because it's the most expensive, that doesn't mean it's the best.
EDIT: I will also vouch for his pricing scheme. You will run into things if you modify your car enough that will cost you money. For instance, I swapped a new transmission into my car for this season. Supposed to be a straight forward, bolt on deal. I spent weeks shipping part of the transmission back to the guy that built it because his sub-contractor didn't set the tolerances right. This cost me shipping money, thankfully it wasn't a heavy part. Plan on stripping out a few bolts, having to buy tools and other disposable supplies (RTV, gaskets, etc), having oil spills to clean up, etc.
Nothing in the aftermarket fit's either. There is no such thing as a bolt-on part. If you find one, let me know, as I haven't yet. From Honda's to Nissan to Toyota to Mitsu, the majority of aftermarket parts produced require some sort of tweaking or modifying to fit properly. Plan on this.
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Originally Posted by turbo2liter
The only advice I would give is this. Magic brand names like Greddy, AEM, or Tanabe don't make the parts perform well. Research and understand what it is about the design of the part that makes them perform to your needs. Don't buy a part just for the name, there are plenty of hole-in-the-wall shops that can duplicate something for half the cost. Don't buy it because it's the most expensive, that doesn't mean it's the best.
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I'm with you on the n/a's never needing back pressure, thats just a old school car guy thing. Been proven on the dyno many a times
Nothing in the aftermarket fit's either. There is no such thing as a bolt-on part. If you find one, let me know, as I haven't yet. From Honda's to Nissan to Toyota to Mitsu, the majority of aftermarket parts produced require some sort of tweaking or modifying to fit properly. Plan on this.
But as far as this goes? my Hk$ exhaust fit better than stock, no joke...... my apex-i intake ..... just like a glove.....
i've also had the pos products like the turbonetic's/fmax kit,..... had to rework the kit a whole lot.... kinda messed up for dropping 5k ..... so ya, price means nothing, but quailty usually comes at a cost
~89 supra turbo~ (the money pit)
~05 scion tc in the works, #???? of 2500~
Nothing in the aftermarket fit's either. There is no such thing as a bolt-on part. If you find one, let me know, as I haven't yet. From Honda's to Nissan to Toyota to Mitsu, the majority of aftermarket parts produced require some sort of tweaking or modifying to fit properly. Plan on this.
But as far as this goes? my Hk$ exhaust fit better than stock, no joke...... my apex-i intake ..... just like a glove.....
i've also had the pos products like the turbonetic's/fmax kit,..... had to rework the kit a whole lot.... kinda messed up for dropping 5k ..... so ya, price means nothing, but quailty usually comes at a cost
~89 supra turbo~ (the money pit)
~05 scion tc in the works, #???? of 2500~
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 615
From: Miami, FL
Re: Modifying your new car (HIDDEN COSTS)
Originally Posted by seen4ever
While I am a new guy from Louisville, KY and therefore assumed that I'm one of the new haters on ZPI or whomever else. I see one thing in common with you guys and some of the honda people I tend to help. Alot of you are young and don't know a whole lot about cars, you don't understand the hidden costs required with modifying your car and the extra maintanence required. This thread is to serve as helping some of you guys and to help you create a goal for your car and then working to get it.
This thread will serve to discuss getting more power from your car. Just an FYI, i'm writting this based on my experiences and judgements on costs.
Step 1. Determine a goal and research, research, research how much it will cost and if you can afford this.
Step 2. After picking out a goal and researching and finding the total cost. Add 20-30% more money, as you underestimated.
Step 3. if you said build motor and get a big nasty turbo, add another 20% to that figure.
Step 4. if you said finance with a credit card during any part of this and have an interest rate of over 10% and/or you work part time and have a tendancy to change jobs, stop now and don't mod your car.
On to the topic:
Basic-Bolt ons:
alot of times the first thing that people do is add an intake & exhaust. AEM CAI go for around 150-250 bucks and an exhaust can go from 150 to 700 depending on brand, etc. What does this do, 1. makes more noise in engine bay & makes car louder. 2. it might give you some more power
Say you take it a step further and add a header. The goal here is to have proper exhaust sizing. You don't want to bottleneck your exhaust. It should start at one size and continue at that size or get mildly bigger. On an N/A car if you run a 3in exhaust you will lose back pressure and therefore lose power. With an I/H/E and a high-flow cat/test pipe you might have 10 more whp and like 3 more wlbs. so you dropped between 1500-2k and basicly got alot more noise, but its still fun to drive.
Parts
Intake (100-250)
header (200-1000)
Exhaust (250-700)
Cat/TP (50-100)
Turbo/Supercharger
Going to the dark side is expensive. I used to say run an FMU or vafc hack, now i just say get a standalone or freeware.
Turbo
Basicly a turbo is just a bolt on, you need to run some oil lines and get an intercooler to cool down the charge temps. Running boost on a stock engine can be risky, yet if you have proper engine management and a good tuner, you can get a reliable car. The risks are rod failure and getting a very expensive coffee table. Everyone has seen that power can be made and bolting on a turbo isn't very hard.
The big hidden costs with a turbo setup are small things, engine mount inserts, a better clutch, suspension (springs, shockes, etc), new tires alot more often. Not to mention you need to keep a better eye on the car now, check oil levels more, check coolant color & levels. Adding boost to a car that was never expected to have boost isn't that easy. Also, you want to have atleast a 2.5in exhaust on these boosted cars, so if you went and bought a header & 60mm exhaust, well tough, but that needs to go. So that's useless money that was spent for nothing, due to not planning in the first place.
Superchargers
Same basic stuff as above, but superchargers are driven off a bet to push air into the motor. most superchargers are purchased in a kit and therefore are pretty complete. You've got basicly one option, TRD. The main thing to keep in mind is you still need engine management with both to get maximum performance & reliability. We know that TRD will come with a reflash for the ECU, so you should be good to go in terms of reliability. But i'm sure it will run pig rich and pull out alot of timing, so maybe getting an e-manage or some other safc or soemthing may help to clean up the curve.
the great thing about a S/C is that you know that header & exhaust you bought, well you can probably keep it with the S/Cer rather than just taking it off and attempting to sell or discard.
Again, I'm a honda person at heart and have attempted to adapt this to fit the scion community. The key is, you bolt on a turbo kit, its not something you can just forget about. You need to keep up on your oil changes, you need to constantly be aware of how your spark plugs are reading. you need to keep the igniton system fresh, with new wires, cap, rotor, etc. You will need to changes plugs more often, as I assume you will want to drop to a colder spark plug to prevent detonation.
This thread will serve to discuss getting more power from your car. Just an FYI, i'm writting this based on my experiences and judgements on costs.
Step 1. Determine a goal and research, research, research how much it will cost and if you can afford this.
Step 2. After picking out a goal and researching and finding the total cost. Add 20-30% more money, as you underestimated.
Step 3. if you said build motor and get a big nasty turbo, add another 20% to that figure.
Step 4. if you said finance with a credit card during any part of this and have an interest rate of over 10% and/or you work part time and have a tendancy to change jobs, stop now and don't mod your car.
On to the topic:
Basic-Bolt ons:
alot of times the first thing that people do is add an intake & exhaust. AEM CAI go for around 150-250 bucks and an exhaust can go from 150 to 700 depending on brand, etc. What does this do, 1. makes more noise in engine bay & makes car louder. 2. it might give you some more power
Say you take it a step further and add a header. The goal here is to have proper exhaust sizing. You don't want to bottleneck your exhaust. It should start at one size and continue at that size or get mildly bigger. On an N/A car if you run a 3in exhaust you will lose back pressure and therefore lose power. With an I/H/E and a high-flow cat/test pipe you might have 10 more whp and like 3 more wlbs. so you dropped between 1500-2k and basicly got alot more noise, but its still fun to drive.
Parts
Intake (100-250)
header (200-1000)
Exhaust (250-700)
Cat/TP (50-100)
Turbo/Supercharger
Going to the dark side is expensive. I used to say run an FMU or vafc hack, now i just say get a standalone or freeware.
Turbo
Basicly a turbo is just a bolt on, you need to run some oil lines and get an intercooler to cool down the charge temps. Running boost on a stock engine can be risky, yet if you have proper engine management and a good tuner, you can get a reliable car. The risks are rod failure and getting a very expensive coffee table. Everyone has seen that power can be made and bolting on a turbo isn't very hard.
The big hidden costs with a turbo setup are small things, engine mount inserts, a better clutch, suspension (springs, shockes, etc), new tires alot more often. Not to mention you need to keep a better eye on the car now, check oil levels more, check coolant color & levels. Adding boost to a car that was never expected to have boost isn't that easy. Also, you want to have atleast a 2.5in exhaust on these boosted cars, so if you went and bought a header & 60mm exhaust, well tough, but that needs to go. So that's useless money that was spent for nothing, due to not planning in the first place.
Superchargers
Same basic stuff as above, but superchargers are driven off a bet to push air into the motor. most superchargers are purchased in a kit and therefore are pretty complete. You've got basicly one option, TRD. The main thing to keep in mind is you still need engine management with both to get maximum performance & reliability. We know that TRD will come with a reflash for the ECU, so you should be good to go in terms of reliability. But i'm sure it will run pig rich and pull out alot of timing, so maybe getting an e-manage or some other safc or soemthing may help to clean up the curve.
the great thing about a S/C is that you know that header & exhaust you bought, well you can probably keep it with the S/Cer rather than just taking it off and attempting to sell or discard.
Again, I'm a honda person at heart and have attempted to adapt this to fit the scion community. The key is, you bolt on a turbo kit, its not something you can just forget about. You need to keep up on your oil changes, you need to constantly be aware of how your spark plugs are reading. you need to keep the igniton system fresh, with new wires, cap, rotor, etc. You will need to changes plugs more often, as I assume you will want to drop to a colder spark plug to prevent detonation.
Hmm 10whp 3 tq I dont know where your getting those figures from perhaps from your honda experience. I,H,full exhaust yields roughly 25hp on a TC, much more than your pessimistic figure. I agree though that the costs are always higher than initially thought.
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Modifying your new car (HIDDEN COSTS)
Hmm 10whp 3 tq I dont know where your getting those figures from perhaps from your honda experience. I,H,full exhaust yields roughly 25hp on a TC, much more than your pessimistic figure. I agree though that the costs are always higher than initially thought.
Bullsh*t.
Aftermarket body kits are the worst offenders IMO. They never fit like they should. And if they do fit, the lines arent perfect. Aftermarket hoods have this problem too, the lines rarely fit perfectly on the sides.
here-read this page:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...+dyno&start=25
DYNO: +24whp and +19lbs/tq (w/o resetting ECU)
-Alphawerks Throttle Body
-Alphawerks Short-Ram Intake
-Alphawerks Header
-Alphawerks Cat-back Exhaust
i have no idea what the alphawerks intake did alone, but the weapon r, injen, K&n, all have done in the 6-9hp range. add on an aftermarket s-pipe which will help the i/h/e combo, you'll have an ever better gain. power enterprises has also developed a vvt-i controller which dyno'd at 12hp. add that on top of the s-pipe and everything else, you could be looking at a total of almost 40hp. not so bad.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...+dyno&start=25
DYNO: +24whp and +19lbs/tq (w/o resetting ECU)
-Alphawerks Throttle Body
-Alphawerks Short-Ram Intake
-Alphawerks Header
-Alphawerks Cat-back Exhaust
i have no idea what the alphawerks intake did alone, but the weapon r, injen, K&n, all have done in the 6-9hp range. add on an aftermarket s-pipe which will help the i/h/e combo, you'll have an ever better gain. power enterprises has also developed a vvt-i controller which dyno'd at 12hp. add that on top of the s-pipe and everything else, you could be looking at a total of almost 40hp. not so bad.
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From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by turbo2liter
Dyno's?
Just because Greddy claims 10whp with exhaust, and AEM claims 15whp with an intake doesn't mean that your dyno is going to be 25whp higher.
Just because Greddy claims 10whp with exhaust, and AEM claims 15whp with an intake doesn't mean that your dyno is going to be 25whp higher.
Neither Greddy or AEM is making such claims because neither makes any parts for the TC (except axleback ) so dont troll the forum without sufficient information. I,H, full exhaust on a TC produces 20 plus HP. The dynoes on this have been on this forum for more than 8 months, in addition independent dynos show similar gains. Yellow posted a link on the bottom for the uninformed.
greddy is claiming that their Catback evo2 is producing 8-12hp. that's correct. however, the 8-12 is on a true catback. the greddy catback for the tc is really an axle back. the only axleback exhaust for the tc that i've seen a dyno of is the dc sports single canister. that was done by import tuner and showed a 3hp gain. the stock tc they dyno'd was pushing about 140hp. the aem intake added about 4hp. with the aem and the dc exhaust they got it up to 147hp. the dc exhaust for the tc costs almost $600. although the gains were across the whole band, doesn't seem like it's worth it at that price-especially when Creative Compacts has a real catback exhaust with borla/magnaflow/flowmaster muffler for like $675 shipped. the import tuner dyno tested the aem intake, dc fake catback exhaust, and dc header. they pushed 15hp with it. so with a full catback exhaust, 20-25hp should be more than possible. especially since the aem intake they tested only gave 4hp while other intakes have given 6-8hp. i just ordered a CC catback with borla muffler and i'll also have the alphawerks header by early next week. right now i have just the weapon r intake with ram air kit also. i've also ordered the weapon r cold air box, so by next weekend i'll do a dyno with intake, headers, and full catback exhaust. i can almost guarantee that it'll be pushing over 15 hp. seen4ever-if u're a betting man-how bout this. with the i/h/e i'll have on, if i push 15hp, u pay for the dyno. if it's less than that, i'll pay for it and kick myself in the ___ for wasting so much money on a bunch of bs mods(according to u)
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here's a spreadsheet of the mods i have planned.
i really just throw numbers up there and setup a goal then just knock the obstacles down 1 by 1.
i should note that some information is not 100% accurate hp figures were guesstimated in some places. the green means i've already bought the part.
http://www.hooklinesinker.org/tc/modss.jpg
also like the poster said, you're going to run into problems and the cost will not get cheaper but generally expands by 15% or so.
i really just throw numbers up there and setup a goal then just knock the obstacles down 1 by 1.
i should note that some information is not 100% accurate hp figures were guesstimated in some places. the green means i've already bought the part.
http://www.hooklinesinker.org/tc/modss.jpg
also like the poster said, you're going to run into problems and the cost will not get cheaper but generally expands by 15% or so.
zpi has an intake manifold already? i wasn't even aware of that-or the aem intake-i thought that wasn't going to even be released. also, u can get some of that stuff cheaper. the stoptech braided rear lines can be had for around $80. unless u're talking about front and rear lines-which in that case, $141 is a real good price. i've seen the front and rears for about $155. what's the head package? i thought that was just them upgrading ur stock header-are u having them do that to the alphawerks header?
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front and rear 
check froogle/google
they don't have an intake manifold but i spoke to them on the phone and they said when i drive up there to get my head (2 months from now) they should have one. they're going to be around $350 (i was thinking a lot more before they told me that LOL). and since my intake manifold will be off already for the head installation so they could slap the better one on then
the head package is just the stock head ported and polished. i think its the stock sized valves still. but thats after you give them your core though i believe. you have to pay the core charge in order to mail order it (correct me if i'm wrong).
check froogle/googlethey don't have an intake manifold but i spoke to them on the phone and they said when i drive up there to get my head (2 months from now) they should have one. they're going to be around $350 (i was thinking a lot more before they told me that LOL). and since my intake manifold will be off already for the head installation so they could slap the better one on then
the head package is just the stock head ported and polished. i think its the stock sized valves still. but thats after you give them your core though i believe. you have to pay the core charge in order to mail order it (correct me if i'm wrong).
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From: Michigan
As has already been pointed out, the 2AZ is responding well to bolt on's, when a proper setup is used. Meaning a complete system, keeping consistent sizing throughout all of the piping, much like what you described in the beginning, seen4ever. As someone already posted the dyno earlier, 20 whp and lbs-ft of torque can be obtained from an intake, header, and exhaust (+2 for a bored TB). That's using the stock s-pipe and that’s just from well designed parts, not performance engineered parts with reverberation chambers or any other such techniques engineered into them. On a tC with a partial exhaust setup (DC header and axle back) tuning from a CamCon netted about 6 - 7 hp from 3000 - 4500 RPM, 12 whp from 4500 -5500 RPM, and about 6- 8 peak. All of those parts total, will add up to about $1700, like you said, but would give at least 15 whp across the entire powerband, and about 20 - 25 whp from 4500 on on up. Those are definitely noticeable gains, and for $1700, I'd say that's not bad at all.
The ZPI head package stage 1 is just a port and polish like matty said, on the actual head of the engine (where all of the valve train parts are, and what the intake and exhaust manifolds connect to). They, ZPI, try to make the ports and the area around the ports as smooth as possible to help with air flow. That is, the intake and exhaust ports for the valves, and the ports for the intake and exhaust manifolds. From the factory, there are some rough areas caused by the machining process that can cause turbulence in the air flow, and that's what they try to improve on with a port and polish. By smoothing the surface, they can reduce turbulence in the airflow, thereby smoothing out and increasing overall airflow.
To my understanding, the Stage 1 Head Package retains the stock valve train. Stage 2 includes the port and polish and uses stronger valves (bigger?) and valve springs while retaining the stock cams. Stage 3 uses all of the above plus cams. You can order a new, freshly ported, head from them and it will cost and additional $700. At that point, you could do the core exchange if you so pleased.
Originally Posted by yellot00tr
what exactly is the head package? header? or something diff?
Originally Posted by matty-tC
front and rear check froogle/google
the head package is just the stock head ported and polished. i think its the stock sized valves still. but thats after you give them your core though i believe. you have to pay the core charge in order to mail order it (correct me if i'm wrong).
check froogle/googlethe head package is just the stock head ported and polished. i think its the stock sized valves still. but thats after you give them your core though i believe. you have to pay the core charge in order to mail order it (correct me if i'm wrong).
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 268
From: Michigan
Originally Posted by turbo2liter
Watch the lift on the cams, and make sure you aren't over the maximum allowed by the springs. Also, if your cams have more lift, make sure they are properly clearances in the piston