davo345

Yeah, I figured the intercooler would be not included with the supercharger package but is extra.

I guess the thing Scion really needs is to get a ECU manufacturer? There must be a few out there who can handle the load!

Monarch

Do you understand that there is no need for an intercooler cause it doesnt run off the exhaust gases. It runs from a CAI

sheep

I am just posting according to my source. He says intercooler is coming out and that it brings a few more ponies to the mix so that is what I posted.

And yes, I thought there would be some company that could handle the load but Scion is searchign for them now.

boombacloud

It is entirely possible that he may actually be speaking of an aftercooler, which is a viable addition to a supercharged engine.

engifineer

That has nothing to do with it. When you compress air (via a turbo or sc) it heats up. The higher energy due to the compression causes heat. This means you are applying more pressure to the cylinders.. but the warmer air means it is less dense. The intercooler counters part of this by cooling the air, so you are inducing more dense air. It is the density you want to increase, not simply the pressure. More air molecules per square inch means you can pump in more fuel per stroke. (I know, I said stroke )

Usually you can guestimate the output of the turbo or supercharger in this way. Say you are adding 7.35 psi of boost (which happens to be half of atmospheric pressure). That means you are adding 50% more air and fuel that a non-aspirated engine. So theoretically you are adding 50% more power. However, due to efficiency loss due to increased backpressure(for the turbo) or parasitic drag(supercharger) the numbers are lower. Usually you will see somewhere around 60 - 70% efficiency I believe for many superchargers. I have been told that the supercharger should produce around 6psi. So if you figure 6/14.7 = 41% increase (theoretical) which is about 66 hp, and then account for the 70% efficiency (rough estimate) you get about 46 HP, which follows the numbers he just gave. So that added to the crank HP of 160 HP equals 206 HP at the crank. Accounting for around 15% loss to the wheels, you should have somewhere around 180 - 185 HP at the wheels if the numbers they expect come true. Again the figures above use assumed or typical values for efficiency, as it will obviously vary from design to design..... now, that will be all of the mister wizard lectures... i need another beer

engifineer

Actually, they are the same thing. The word intercooler on a single turbo engine is actually a misnomer. When using sequential turbos in some applications, designers would (and do) place air coolers between the turbos, hence the name intercooler. One placed after the forced induction and before the engine is called the aftercooler. The term intercooler stuck in most applications. Since most cars use single turbos or superchargers, they all are actually running aftercoolers. Like I said, intercooler was just a term that stuck and is more commonly used.

mfbenson

Ok, and are these numbers assuming things like high flow exhaust and intake?

Earlier the "latest rumor" was that it would be a factory option, not a dealer option. Hear anything about that?

Myself I'd be interested in it being a factory option because then I would have confidence in the install. To get it i'd have to trade in my current tC but that's not all bad because I'd also have an excuse to get rid of this g-d automatic tranny...

Maybe get the side curtain airbags too. Already had enough close calls to wish I had them.

engifineer

As I said, those are rough estimates, and apply to the overall increase in system HP. I heard that it will be a factory option, but will still be available as aftermarket, as they have already promised it to everyone. The only bad thing is that since I already purchased the car, I cant have it included in the financing when it comes out... so say bye to a big chunk from the bank account!! it would have been nice to just have it all included on the original price.

Monarch

I know what a intercooler does and there was really no point to your response.

davo345

everyone read engifineer's post about the intercooler, because that's the only thing that it does. It actually IS an aftercooler, it's just that the term intercooler was typecasted. so it would have some piping AFTER the air has been accelerated by the supercharger. So picture a pipe coming out of the outlet of your supercharger, bends downward and to the front of your tC (if it's front mount IC), is inserted into an intercooler, and then a pipe on the other side of the intercooler is coming out and goes on up to the throttle body.

it makes me gitty. :D

Monarch

Have you ever seen the SC, if think your going to pipe that good luck.
http://gallery.scionzone.com/gallery...r2004/IMG_0290
Take a look and tell me how you going to put a SC in the TC.

jmiller20874

Your posts don't make any sense. I'm assuming you mean intercooler, not supercharger being that you posted a pic that already has it in it. It can be intercooled/aftercooled(whatever) being it's of centrifical design which is virtually the same design as a turbo only it's belt-driven instead of exhaust-driven. The TB is behind the engine giving a good 1.5' of distance between the SC and the TB, it can be done, even if it has to be top-mount. Aftermarket people has installed plumbing in less space than that.

Monarch

All I have to say is nevermind because we will see who is right when it comes time

neuromonic

Agreed. The cheapest/easiest solution would be to but the intercooler in the wheelwell (ala supra, DSM, etc....) but a top mount could maybe fit in the front of the engine compartment or a front-mount would easily fit if you don't mind a little pressure loss from the tubing. If the SC can be 'clocked' like a turbo, then I think pressure loss from excessive tubing to the intercooler (aftercooler if you want to call it that, but nobody has in years) could be mitigated somewhat.

my $0.02.

Petem

actually there was a point, from your post is sounded to him and to me aswell that you did not uderstand why an intercooler is used.. or the theory behind forced induction... .. you said that an intercooler was not needed because an SC is CAI.... while an SC may heat the air "alittle" less than a turbo.. it stil heats tha air.. if we go by your post... you do not need an intercooler with a turbo either.. it does draw air from the same place an SC does.. so it is CAI aswell... ALL force induction systems benifit from an intercooler..

engifineer

It was obvious by your response that you dont. "Do you understand there is no need ...." . you were stating that the reason a turbo needs an intercooler was because it runs off of exhaust gasses. That is not true, which I explained in detail. And I included more detail for the others that had asked questions regarding output and such. So there was obviously very much point to my post. Dont say something like "dont you understand that there is no need for an intercooler... and then come back and say that my explanation was useless and that you already know how it works. I was just trying to post factual helpful info.

Monarch

you guys are idiots

davo345

dude, are you even hearing what we are saying?

jmiller20874

Yea, resort to calling the people trying to help idiots, that'll work.

engifineer

Ok, it is obvious that many of us have worked on more cars than you have drivien. So we are idiots because we know the workings of a supercharger/turbo?? Are you trying to argue with us or just call names like a little boy because you were wrong? You opened up and spewed out the "do you understand..." comment as if you knew more than someone, and now you are upset because someone politely corrected you? Get a frosty mug or something and relax.

For everyone other than the little boy that commented above, I hope the answers posted by us here have answered some questions, interested someone.. etc. And I sure hope that damn supercharger comes out soon!!!