Been reading...sigh...

So. Heres what I have and will do in the future.

Have
Injen CAI
DME Header
HKS hi Powered Exhaust

Future
BC Camshafts
Fuel injectors (still ?? on cc)
Auto to manual swap
maybe intake manifold

(My future mods have been changing as i read everyday)

Now. I see people go that with bolt ons you get may 10 hp. whatever, doesnt matter around there. Ive seen people say 5-25 whp. in my eyes. thats low, and im out to go over it.

Im not convinced that with a fully built motor and tuned (from good tuner)
that you will only gain 25 whp?

With the bolt ons, more fuel, more air, easy to get out, gnarly cams, solid manifold, how oh how will that generate such little power. The tc looks like it be fast, why in the world would toyota (not scion...) come out with a car that cant compete against the evil si's.

Speaking of si's. With what I have now I walk them...I havent got a tune yet and walk them. This doesnt add up to me. Auto tc...BOOOO ?!?!?! I get it too. man > auto but for real guys the auto isnt that bad. I just dont see how with all that work you gain 20ish hp with tune. but add a turb and gain 400+ hp? >.> theres some one lying somewhere...

So to top this off. with the following...

Injen CAI
DME Header
HKS Hi Powered Exhaust
BC N/A cams
Intake manifold
Fuel injectors + all fuel upgrades
s pipe
mid pipe
back seats removed (i know no gain in hp)
NO CRANK PULLEY...lets keep the engine alive now guys...
(ect ect if list will go on)

I will gain a grand total of 25 whp? I call bs. If this is true why are there so many fully built tc's? Id either turb it or sell it...

Have I read wrong? I hope I'm wrong. I hope someone states their fully built tc hp/trq and its at least around 190 whp or up.

After alll that with a n/a engine fully built with such ____ty results...thats just sad toyota. I have a lot of love for toyota but come on. will that damn ft-86, and/or fr-s be around 200hp at least? damn toyota dont come out with another coupe that can maybe compete with a tc. I dont get it. I just dont. Someone ____ing help me out here and give me some damn answers. ____.

 

the 2azfe is a workhorse engine. it isn't made to turn huge hp numbers. it was built to be an economical and reliable engine. you won't get huge numbers out of it doing an n/a build. it doesn't rev very high, it doesn't have a high compression ratio. if you want major power, go forced induction. If you want big numbers and go n/a, you'll just end up with lots of wasted money and disappointing results.

 

Yeah...forced induction is the ticket. If only they would have made them turbo stock. That'd be f'in amazing. They would have such a huge increase in sales. Even if it was little...

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Lol this is funny


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You haven't mentioned any handling (which is the tC's strong point...) work that you've done. Are you building a muscle car ?

 

Sad... =/ so how will the fr-s be? made for huge hp? wtf is up with toyota? they are getting ____ on...?!?!?! so what if i eventually put a v6 in it? mod that up, tune it up.

with na build how much will i get to wheels. i know it wont be an exact factual number but a guestimate?

 

+10hp. Maybe 20 with aftermarket engine management and a professional tune.

 

I think people in here have gotten in the 200's but have they gotten over 300? I haven't kept up on the na builds. I went the f/I route and its a friggin blast lol

But I honestly thought about na before going with my kit. Just everyone I talked to said id spend a fortune and get ____ on by comparable cars running even mild boost.

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ive read tcs dont handle turbs that well. =\ how long will the life be?

 

are you serious? they handle turbo's swell. I'm making over 300 whp with mine at 14 psi on a stock engine.

 

Calm...

Yes, I have read that the life on turb'd tcs become very short. Thats good to hear though. So n/a build then toss turbo on it will be chill then?

 

What reading are you doing? Because, It's certainly not on any of the stickied topics of this forum.

Turbo makes the car go fast, but make sure you can stop and turn a corner too. Being a fast driver is more fun than having a fast car to me.

 

I would like to see someone do a true N/A build...

Maybe something like 11:1 pistons, than deck the head/block and get it up in the 12.x:1 range.

PnP head, Cams, CAI, Intake manifold, header

Fuel/Standalone - than run on E85 with a 8000ish redline

I think you could get some decent numbers out of it, maybe 210-225 whp?

But when you think about it, you could spend the same money and make 400+whp with a F/I build...

Oh well just a bit of rambling, I love my F/I car

 

No one's lying to you dude, you can easily spend $3000 on a N/A build and only gain 25 whp or spend $4000 on a turbo setup and gain 200 whp easily. The long stroke, low rpm 2AZ-FE is not a very good vacuum pump but when you add a turbo forcing air into the cylinders, you can easily add as much power as the engine can handle. All those little things that strangle a N/A engine's breathing capability are relatively inconsequential with boost. Another XB2 (2AZ-FE) owner recently had a descendant turbo setup installed and with only a 2.5" exhaust upgrade easily made 300 whp/wtq at 10 psi.

By far the biggest bang to buck upgrade that you mentioned is the AT to MT swap. That alone will net you about 1/2 second on 0-60 and 1/4 mile et. OTOH, if you choose to stay N/A you'll never come close to what you could do with a AT and a turbo. I've shaved 2.5 seconds off my 0-60 and 1/4 mile et with only 6 psi of boost. Boosted for over 2 years now and 30K miles.

 

The best advice any of us can give you on this thread of yours is to just stop talking. The last two days you have posted all kinds of stuff like this. Slow your roll. You need to calm down. It was called the Supra buddy. You aren't going to get the answers you want because the answers you want are not real answers. A built motor gives you no more real power. It just means it can handle more when built on to. With that list of future mods, with a management system, you might hit 195 to the crank and still about only 170 to the wheels. Deal with what we got, or buy a new car. Simple. Scion/Toyota is not going to for fast, they are going towards attraction to young adults via looks and handling. The first scion was the xb. You think that dinky engine was going for speed? Yeah.. no. Go sell it and buy a chevy or something because you're out of line.

 

Completely agree.

Sure the tC offered a supercharger, but they even discontinued that. The whole point of the Scion brand was to bring younger buyers to the Toyota family (Median age was in the 30's), and younger people want reliability and gas mileage. Obviously this forum shows people want performance as well, but this is a small fraction of the owners remember.

As far as your original build list, you need to read a LOT more. You will be dumb not to tune after cams as I mentioned in your other thread. And out of that list, the cams are the only thing that will gain you more then a handful of wheel hp's. Intake, full exhaust are the only other power gainers even listed, and you'd be lucky to get 10 hp out of it.

Fuel injectors? READ! The only time you would need to upgrade fuel injectors on this car is going turbo, or going bigger turbo. The stock injectors are good. You cannot just "add more fuel" and expect performance, it doesn't work like that. Along with fuel, the intake manifold is overkill. The 2ish manifolds made for this car were developed for TURBO APPLICATIONS. While you can add it to an n/a car, you would need to tune it to see any real gains. A car can only take so much fuel and air and make power, especially a 4 cylinder that isn't forced.

You want to do an n/a build? BUILD THE MOTOR THEN! These stupid bolt on's won't do much compared to boring out the engine, adding higher compression pistons, porting the head, etc etc etc. And regardless, you will need a standalone if you do more then intake/exhaust/header to get the full benefit of each part.

If you don't have money like you stated in your other thread, then save up. If you want to go fast, it takes money. If you want to go fast reliably it takes money. Honestly, if you don't plan to take this thing to the track more then twice a year, its a waste of money. And the manual swap is going to cost quite a bit. You may want to rethink your approach, and take the car for what it is.

 

Simplified version.

Do what you want, with YOUR car.

 

Ok man, as everyone else stated, your high on crack. But let me address one item here : There is no way in hell, you are "walking" a new SI with a stock tC. I have a 2003 civic SI ep3 hatch as my daily driver, and that thing is just as fast as stock tc's as they sit, and I know for a fact the newer gen Civic SI's are a great setup, better than my ep3 hatch (they added over 40hp, but more importantly increased the tq by about 25%). Unless you post a video, I am calling complete BS on this. One other thing, I doubt whoever you were racing, knew you guys were racing. PS: A "tune" wont do anything on your motor unless you have the need to tune it. Bolt-ons rarely require a tune, and you wont get much back for your money spent.

Last thing, you are really throwing money away with your bolt-on mods. A lot of people on here wont admit it, but they know that if they took that money they threw away, and applied it to building a FI setup, they would of been much happier, and made a hell of a lot more power. Bolt ons are great if your a younger person, and dont have much money OR if you just want to "play" in the sandbox. Why on earth would you spend $3,000 to get 20 hp (MAYBE) or $5,000 to get another 160hp. What you need to do, is figure out your HP goals, and work backwards from there. Meaning if you want to shoot for 250hp, figure your budget out, and work on what parts you want. Stay away from ebay parts for the most part of it, and buy brand name, or vendor sponsored items. You'll keep your car more reliable, powerful and competitive, and a lot less rice-buckety. I have a boosted tc, and would not go back to stock ever. Id sell the car before that ever happened.

It sounds like you should of bought a NASCAR stock car instead of a TC. Either that, or your under 20, and this is your first "nicer" car.

 

On build N/A motors:

Stroker kit: it exists. but you will spend more money getting a block(or pulling yours) getting everything installed and a tune, then you would grabbing a turbo. I say getting it installed cause I dont think you are the kind of guy with the knowledge to do it. Quoted 7.5k to get a new block, pay for the stroker kit, and get it installed.

Cams: Yeah they help. You will get some HP from them. But again. you are paying for the cams, the new shims and an engine removal/install, possibly the core head from a junkyard. It gets expensive. I have spent ~2k on the heads/cam and retainers. No shims done and no removal/install.

Fuel: Nothing you are going to do hardware wise to your fuel system is going to help you. You have more than enough flow to handle anything you will put together for N/A right now.

I/H/E: Yes. These all add a SMALL about of HP. Together we could say ~5-12HP. Buying used you may get all 3 for....$300? new maybe $600?

EMS: Cool now you got your stroker, your cams (Maybe port/polish valve jobs etc) and your I/H/E. Now you have to buy a computer to control everything. Standalone or Piggyback? Piggybacks are cheaper but offer less. ~400 or so. Standalones offer more control, but cost more. ~2k (deals, hook-ups, free shipping, whatever general idea)

Tuning: Now you have all this stuff. Now you need to find a good shop to tune for ya! 100 or more an hour. maybe 3-4 hours of it to make it right?

TOTAL: If going the N/A route to 'big power' you will be in the ball park of 11k. Thats not even including the MT Swap. I have nothing against N/A guys. You just cannot squeeze enough out of these engines. id ball park and say maybe 260? There just isnt much more you can do.

Going Boost: NO engine work required. in fact im positive you can install the whole kit without even really removing the engine completely. ~5k for the kit (unless you buy used. sold my brand new PTuning kit for 2k...) Gauges needed. $400 or so for a EUGO, boost and Oil Pres? another couple hours for tuning. so maybe 6k total? 8PSI will put you somewhere close to 300. there is a lot more you can do to get more bang.

It is all a personal preference really, but cost wise boost is WAY more effecient.

 

LOL @ the misinformation going on in this thread and at some of the posts