tC POTENTIAL?
03-28-2004, 12:31 AM
#21
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Nope, not if you keep the revs high... If you take a turn and keep the revs higher say ave turbo has boost around 4K, you'll never have turbo lag once the car moves...
Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...
No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...
S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...
Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...
Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...
S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly
T/C runs on exhaust gas, so you might find yourself downshifting a lot to keep it in the power range to not bog (did I mention I'm a fan of downshifting :D :D :D)
T/C runs super hot, in which proper cooling must be considered before even thinking about the gains
T/C is usually lighter and easier to install, but constant monitoring must be obtained to ensure nothing melts down
T/C might even save you gas if you keep it in constant boost without fluctuation, (like long freeway drives with little hills and stoppage)
Still, factory installed parts should usually run with little to no problems for either, but S/C are usually more costly and ends up costing the owner a lot more down the road...
Since I don't plan on mashing my throttle at a dead stop to feel the G forces and wear my tires out, I'm hoping for a T/C because I like to boost after a steady roll say to an on ramp... This is easier on the car and it's easier on the tires... The only thing about the S/C I might consider is the fact that it'll help me move the extra 300 - 400 lbs worth of audio I plan to put in the car when I get it...
LOL, don't make me link this topic... WAY too many pages on this hot one :D
Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...
No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...
S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...
Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...
Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...
S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly
T/C runs on exhaust gas, so you might find yourself downshifting a lot to keep it in the power range to not bog (did I mention I'm a fan of downshifting :D :D :D)
T/C runs super hot, in which proper cooling must be considered before even thinking about the gains
T/C is usually lighter and easier to install, but constant monitoring must be obtained to ensure nothing melts down
T/C might even save you gas if you keep it in constant boost without fluctuation, (like long freeway drives with little hills and stoppage)
Still, factory installed parts should usually run with little to no problems for either, but S/C are usually more costly and ends up costing the owner a lot more down the road...
Since I don't plan on mashing my throttle at a dead stop to feel the G forces and wear my tires out, I'm hoping for a T/C because I like to boost after a steady roll say to an on ramp... This is easier on the car and it's easier on the tires... The only thing about the S/C I might consider is the fact that it'll help me move the extra 300 - 400 lbs worth of audio I plan to put in the car when I get it...
LOL, don't make me link this topic... WAY too many pages on this hot one :D
04-03-2004, 07:58 PM
#22
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 42
Turbos, superchargers...bugatti's...blah blah blah...i like how these rooms swing way off course...haha anyways turbonetics will offer a turbocharger for the tc.....throw in cold air....some headers....blitz ng 1 exhaust....a lighter flywheel...6 puck clutch...short shifter.....wires...blah blah blah....youll end up spending a wad....at least 3 to 4 G's for the turbo and another 3 grand for the other stuff...but if you shop wisely and take your time you might beable to squeeze out about 240-250 to the wheels.....and that will be enough to take on any civic...any integra...any stock rsx's and stock preludes...... good thing about the supercharger is if you finance the car you can just ad that to your payments......you wont have to drop a few grand all at once to like a turbo....and the warrenty...but yeah TRD sucks so thats a drawback.....i guess my point is if you have to ask how much power you cant get...you shouldnt even be worrying about it....leave it stock and have a nice day
04-03-2004, 09:52 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by KAuss
Nope, not if you keep the revs high... If you take a turn and keep the revs higher say ave turbo has boost around 4K, you'll never have turbo lag once the car moves...
Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...
No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...
S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...
Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...
Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...
S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly
Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...
No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...
S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...
Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...
Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...
S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly
04-04-2004, 01:10 AM
#26
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco
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Yes, a centrifugal would help it, but remember a S/C is belt driven... For the weight that it is and for the expense of the way it's powered, a S/C is never the suited for a constant load application...
S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...
For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...
Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...
Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...
A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...
Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D
Edit:
Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...
S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...
For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...
Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...
Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...
A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...
Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D
Edit:
Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...
04-04-2004, 01:26 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by tC Junkie
Next Car = 02 Celica GTS,Scion Tc,or BMW 325Ci
youre seriously thinking of buying a celica or a tc when you have the option to buy a bwm?
youre seriously thinking of buying a celica or a tc when you have the option to buy a bwm?
let me ask u, on a $17-20K budget, which one would u buy?
04-04-2004, 01:30 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by KAuss
Yes, a centrifugal would help it, but remember a S/C is belt driven... For the weight that it is and for the expense of the way it's powered, a S/C is never the suited for a constant load application...
S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...
For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...
Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...
Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...
A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...
Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D
Edit:
Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...
S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...
For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...
Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...
Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...
A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...
Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D
Edit:
Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...
04-04-2004, 01:33 AM
#29
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I don't know if you can get a GTS for 20K...
Also, you're not using the car like anyone else on this forum :D So just figure out what you want to do with your car and spend it that way :D
Stock wise, a GTS will smoke the tC...
Room will go to the tC
Price is also with the tC
features and options I would have to say tC
Proven track record goes to the GTS (we have nothing on the tC yet)
Both would make good driving cars anyways though.. So just figure out what you're gonna do with it... Performance is about 80% of a car IMO, but thats just cause I look at numbers a lot... Rarely use it... It's nice to know you have spare juice left tho...
Also, you're not using the car like anyone else on this forum :D So just figure out what you want to do with your car and spend it that way :D
Stock wise, a GTS will smoke the tC...
Room will go to the tC
Price is also with the tC
features and options I would have to say tC
Proven track record goes to the GTS (we have nothing on the tC yet)
Both would make good driving cars anyways though.. So just figure out what you're gonna do with it... Performance is about 80% of a car IMO, but thats just cause I look at numbers a lot... Rarely use it... It's nice to know you have spare juice left tho...
04-04-2004, 01:38 AM
#30
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well the GTS i wanted was listed at $27K so go figure. If i were to buy a GTS it would have to be used. I was thinking of a new GT . The tC looks incredible and i have a feeling im going to fall in love with it when i finally see it in person and drive it.
04-04-2004, 01:40 AM
#31
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If you're talking about the GT, then I seriously don't see from a value stand point where the GT would be more benificial...
At least with the Matrix you get praticality... The GT has modability... (not even a word)
Hands down, the tC should be a better buy IMO over the GT since you can at least haul stuff around with more room and an extra two small people wouldn't be an issue either...
Still I'm talking out of my ___ since I have never seen a tC to this date...
At least with the Matrix you get praticality... The GT has modability... (not even a word)
Hands down, the tC should be a better buy IMO over the GT since you can at least haul stuff around with more room and an extra two small people wouldn't be an issue either...
Still I'm talking out of my ___ since I have never seen a tC to this date...
04-04-2004, 01:47 AM
#32
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yeah, im only considering a GT because i really like the celica with the TRD kit. I cant afford a new GTS , (like i told u...$27K, which is insane)...the tC is looking good but like u said we've only seen pictures of it.
04-04-2004, 03:01 AM
#33
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Look at the veilside kit for the Celica... It's over the top but it's what I like in a kit :D
I'll post the link when I find the pic...
http://members.shaw.ca/fitnessfx/celica/veilside/
Scratch the headlights though... Those are hella whacked...
Anywho, this kit is cheap especially for a Veilside... It might look pretty FnF, but Veilside kits ARE tested to be aerodynamic so it isn't just for style... I know if I ever bought a Celica this is how it'll end up looking like...
Sorry for jumping way off topic...
I'll post the link when I find the pic...
http://members.shaw.ca/fitnessfx/celica/veilside/
Scratch the headlights though... Those are hella whacked...
Anywho, this kit is cheap especially for a Veilside... It might look pretty FnF, but Veilside kits ARE tested to be aerodynamic so it isn't just for style... I know if I ever bought a Celica this is how it'll end up looking like...
Sorry for jumping way off topic...
04-05-2004, 12:36 PM
#37
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Now I know I am biased, but every used GTS we have taken in trade (on the Toyota side)have been abused. Not to metion the problem with owners blowing engines from missing downshifts. At one point last month we had 4 GTS Celicas here in the same week. All for blown motors.
04-05-2004, 02:22 PM
#38
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How did this all of a sudden jump to blown motors on GTS'?
And by missing downshifts you mean they over rev in nuetral? Or they go into gear at way too high of speed causing over rev? Those must be some novice people... Either that or they're super hardcore keeping redline...
And by missing downshifts you mean they over rev in nuetral? Or they go into gear at way too high of speed causing over rev? Those must be some novice people... Either that or they're super hardcore keeping redline...
04-06-2004, 10:42 PM
#39
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^^^ i was at this one celica forum and i've read so many threads about blown motors. here is some of what i've read about blown motors in the gts. 1) since reverse is on the left side of 2nd gear, when people start to haul ___ in first then tries to get into 2nd, it goes into reverse. 2) when people are hauling ___ in 3rd gear, and is about to shift to 4th, it goes into 2nd. 3) when people are in high gears and wants to donwshift, they downshift into the wrong gear like instead of 4th to 3rd they go from 4th to 1st.
the celica's gearing are pretty close from what i've read.
the celica's gearing are pretty close from what i've read.