what to do
07-14-2007, 04:16 AM
#1
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what to do
I really love my scion and dont wanna trade it, but. I want a n/a power scion. After i order i/h/e and light pulley will i like the power gain. And will they come out with computer chips, cams, etc... and if i get the i/h/e since it takes away low end, then if i get it ported for low-mid range will i have a good power gain. thanks peace
07-14-2007, 04:21 AM
#2
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you'll have some more power... Cams are being made right now, they should be released hopefully by the end of summer. Personally If you were going to spend that much on NA with port + polish.. go FI. you'll endjoy it!
07-14-2007, 04:30 AM
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I respect the n/a aspirations!
You will gain more power with all those things, how much exactly is debatable. I raced a guy at irwindale with cams, intake and underdrive pulley. I beat him both times I raced him, and Im bone stock...
He was running 20 in rims though. SO all that money he spent on making his ride more "powerful" was for not. The rims completely destroyed his bottom end abilities.
Long story short, there are a lot of factors to making power with a n/a engine. And it will probably cost you. Once you get the i/h/e and if you do get cams and maybe a little bit of porting, I would look into having a custom flash done to your ecu. One that utilizes all your mods...
You will gain more power with all those things, how much exactly is debatable. I raced a guy at irwindale with cams, intake and underdrive pulley. I beat him both times I raced him, and Im bone stock...
He was running 20 in rims though. SO all that money he spent on making his ride more "powerful" was for not. The rims completely destroyed his bottom end abilities.
Long story short, there are a lot of factors to making power with a n/a engine. And it will probably cost you. Once you get the i/h/e and if you do get cams and maybe a little bit of porting, I would look into having a custom flash done to your ecu. One that utilizes all your mods...
07-14-2007, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by xIxAMxHOLLYWOODx
Once you get the i/h/e and if you do get cams and maybe a little bit of porting, I would look into having a custom flash done to your ecu. One that utilizes all your mods...
07-14-2007, 04:44 AM
#5
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its also dependent on what you're trying to accomplish...
better numbers at the track? If so, i would look into purchasing a limited slip differential and some drag slicks. Getting the power to the ground in the tc is the hardest battle...
better numbers at the track? If so, i would look into purchasing a limited slip differential and some drag slicks. Getting the power to the ground in the tc is the hardest battle...
07-14-2007, 04:45 AM
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Where did he get his "cams" ? The only I know of are a few that have had regrinds done, and there isnt a lot to gain from that on our car. No one makes cams for it that I know of. And with VVTi, custom cams are hard to design. Pullies as I have always said are such a minimal gain you wont notice it. People who buy them love to say "I can tell I got more power" (and you get no more power... you make it easier to rev but lose inertia as well) but I have had two people actually show track results for thier "15 whp" gain from a pulley. One almost can claim .1 second, but not with enough data to say it wasnt just conditions or driving variables, the other found he ran worse as much as he did better.. then took it off after a mysterious crank seal leak occurred. The only inertia gain that will get you noticeable results will be a flywheel swap (and that is much safer for the engine anyway).
IHE has shown to give about 15 WHP max.. and most times less from what I have seen. So I dont doubt that you would have hung with him even if he didnt have 20 inch rims. And I still wonder if he really had any cam work done at all, especially without any other tuning done.
If you want to really push it N/A, one thing is to raise redline. To do that, you need to get the piston velocity down. In other words de-stroking the engine. You can have it sleeved and bored out to just over 2.5L safely last I heard from builders that have looked at it. Then raise the compression. After that you can have cams made to flow more and do the head work. In the end I would be suprised if you surpassed 215WHP, but you never know. If you actually de-stroked it maybe more, but that is a bunch more money. And of course all of this requires fuel system tuning to the extent of a stand alone to do it right.
And you will spend a LOT more than comparable power from FI, but it would be a fun project if you had the cash and time to do it.
IHE has shown to give about 15 WHP max.. and most times less from what I have seen. So I dont doubt that you would have hung with him even if he didnt have 20 inch rims. And I still wonder if he really had any cam work done at all, especially without any other tuning done.
If you want to really push it N/A, one thing is to raise redline. To do that, you need to get the piston velocity down. In other words de-stroking the engine. You can have it sleeved and bored out to just over 2.5L safely last I heard from builders that have looked at it. Then raise the compression. After that you can have cams made to flow more and do the head work. In the end I would be suprised if you surpassed 215WHP, but you never know. If you actually de-stroked it maybe more, but that is a bunch more money. And of course all of this requires fuel system tuning to the extent of a stand alone to do it right.
And you will spend a LOT more than comparable power from FI, but it would be a fun project if you had the cash and time to do it.
07-14-2007, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by engifineer
Where did he get his "cams" ? The only I know of are a few that have had regrinds done, and there isnt a lot to gain from that on our car. No one makes cams for it that I know of. And with VVTi, custom cams are hard to design. Pullies as I have always said are such a minimal gain you wont notice it. People who buy them love to say "I can tell I got more power" (and you get no more power... you make it easier to rev but lose inertia as well) but I have had two people actually show track results for thier "15 whp" gain from a pulley. One almost can claim .1 second, but not with enough data to say it wasnt just conditions or driving variables, the other found he ran worse as much as he did better.. then took it off after a mysterious crank seal leak occurred. The only inertia gain that will get you noticeable results will be a flywheel swap (and that is much safer for the engine anyway).
IHE has shown to give about 15 WHP max.. and most times less from what I have seen. So I dont doubt that you would have hung with him even if he didnt have 20 inch rims. And I still wonder if he really had any cam work done at all, especially without any other tuning done.
If you want to really push it N/A, one thing is to raise redline. To do that, you need to get the piston velocity down. In other words de-stroking the engine. You can have it sleeved and bored out to just over 2.5L safely last I heard from builders that have looked at it. Then raise the compression. After that you can have cams made to flow more and do the head work. In the end I would be suprised if you surpassed 215WHP, but you never know. If you actually de-stroked it maybe more, but that is a bunch more money. And of course all of this requires fuel system tuning to the extent of a stand alone to do it right.
And you will spend a LOT more than comparable power from FI, but it would be a fun project if you had the cash and time to do it.
IHE has shown to give about 15 WHP max.. and most times less from what I have seen. So I dont doubt that you would have hung with him even if he didnt have 20 inch rims. And I still wonder if he really had any cam work done at all, especially without any other tuning done.
If you want to really push it N/A, one thing is to raise redline. To do that, you need to get the piston velocity down. In other words de-stroking the engine. You can have it sleeved and bored out to just over 2.5L safely last I heard from builders that have looked at it. Then raise the compression. After that you can have cams made to flow more and do the head work. In the end I would be suprised if you surpassed 215WHP, but you never know. If you actually de-stroked it maybe more, but that is a bunch more money. And of course all of this requires fuel system tuning to the extent of a stand alone to do it right.
And you will spend a LOT more than comparable power from FI, but it would be a fun project if you had the cash and time to do it.
07-14-2007, 05:04 AM
#8
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Scikotics
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Yeah, there is usually more to gain from cams on larger engines.. especially older ones. Same goes for pnp and port matching.. todays heads are much cleaner and tightly specd from the factory.
56 bel air would be nice.. one of the cars I would like to own some day along with the 69 short bed chevy, chevelle ss and 69 ss camaro :D
56 bel air would be nice.. one of the cars I would like to own some day along with the 69 short bed chevy, chevelle ss and 69 ss camaro :D
07-14-2007, 05:38 AM
#10
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Yeah, that shows what big displacement power can do for you. My dad has pics of his high school project car still. 1957 chevy that ran low 13s at the track. Keep in mind this was a fully streetable NA built car that weighed over 3000 lbs! Too bad they arent as easy and cheap to build these days 
