So there is a lot of discussion going back and forth lately about which is better at this psi or what is better with these supporting mods, etc.

Lets assume we have a supercharged tC at 230WHP vs a turbocharged tC at 230WHP. Forget the other supporting engine mods for now, but lets assume they both have the SAME suspension, wheels, and tires.

Which car would most likely win in the following competitions;

1. Drag Race
2. Autocross course
3. Endurance

4. Did i forget anything else that may be important? Drifting perhaps

Share your thoughts and ideas. Also if you have any concrete evidence (timeslips) please feel free to share them.

 

I am going to say ceteris paribus, the supercharger would win 1 (due to low end although the turbo might catch up when the super poops out up top) and 2 but 3 is a toss up. Having said that there is no such thing as ceteris paribus when comparing a super to a turbo. NO SUCH THING. Get what you like and get ready for a roasting

 

In a drag race... As packaged, a Supercharged tC will lose every time to a ZPI Stage 0 turbo kit. Even at 9psi on the S/C, with the equal drivers, the Stage 0 will pull away, although the margin will be smaller.

As for Autocross or Endurance racing, I dunno. ZPIracing and it's employees do not actively participate in any motorsport that involves turning or extended driving. :D :D

 

Especially in a turn-ridden course, the ZPI turbo should be at a disadvantage. When you come to a turn and slow down and downshift, you'll probably be at a relatively high RPM as you exit the turn. As soon as the clutch pedal comes out, the 16G will boost its fullest and without a LSD you will spin to high heaven. This is one reason why the RAAMaudio tC doesn't have a ball bearing turbo: in auto x, quick spool can easily be detrimental.

Which is also why I think the supercharger is better in an auto x course. Boost response is instantaneous and always matched to the RPM properly as crank and supercharger are connected (as opposed to on a turbo where full boost exists at almost all RPM.)

Of course, that's with all else equal. With LSD, the turbo will probably be the best choice everywhere.

 

My thoughts

1) Turbo
2) S/C
3) Turbo


Reason being is, turbo's hold boost from say 3k rpm up to redline. Whereas the S/C (at least in the tC's case) does NOT reach full power till it's AT redline, it does not carry the power with it, but instead meets up to it. On the AutoX, it's short and involves a good range of low and high rpm's. On a road course however, the turns are larger, more swooping, and there are straight-aways. On a road course, you would deploy HEEL-Toe driving on just about every turn. Therefore, the ability to keep the quick spooling 16g Turbine into boost, and a good driver can utilize that, and won't spin his tires due to boost levels.

If you guys have never seen the N/A vs. Turbo battle from the MotorRing Videos, I suggest you go get it. The whole spinning tires while going around a corner due to boost, is because the driver sucks, not because it's Turbocharged.

As for Drift, I don't think there is a difference. Their is a mixture of S/C and Turbo applications in D1. They only differ in how much power the cars are putting down, not how much angle they get.

 

I'm looking to getting into Drifting and AutoX, so maybe I can be the extention to the ZPI race team that goes around corners...

 

Well as far as I know, a turbo in auto x is fine so long as there's a way to mitigate that turbo 'kick.' Even if you were to heel toe, the power that's going down will throw the tire out of control for a little bit.

Heel toe matches engine speed to wheel speed but does not match engine output to wheel speed. It certainly helps though.

So long as there's an LSD installed, imo, turbo will dominate all. AWD helps a bit but it's not something we can easily do.

As far as drifting, I really don't see you plan to get good drifts with the tC. I hope you're talking about a different car? FWD cars can drift but it's either not nearly as flashy or isn't easy to get a good one.

But for drifitng I'm going to say that turbo is better since it's easier to over power your drive wheels with a turbo but yea, in drift power is more important than power delivery (as far as I know which isn't that much, I admit.)

 

In my opinion I have never seen a supercharged 4 cylinder car run as good as a turbo 4 cylinder car EVER! (Notice I said 4 cylinder) Drag, autocross whatever. Turbo is the way to go for the real action.

 

I think auto x and is a lot more driving and suspension then how you are boosting. If you are a good driver wont worry what you have a sc or a turbo. Srt4 is turbo fwd and handles pretty well evenwhen it didnt have an lsd. Auto x is more skill then anything else really. Ofcourse for a pro it would make a diff but for someone just learning having a sc wont give some magical advantage of taking off a huge amount of time.

As for drag trubo and sc at the same hp I think turbo would have a slight advantage due to having more hp down low. But to make the sc compete with the turbo you would spend more money on making the same amount of hp but with less maintance, Sc has a lot less piping to worry about leaking and other things going wrong. Its really preference at that point not necesserily whats faster. A car is more then just its hp number. Traction has a lot to do with it aswell.

Imo I think turbo is a better deal simply because turbo are more upgradable at this point with cheaper mods that produce more hp. While the sc you got i/h/e a pulley, so far no intercooler(that works well)

 

^^^ Rasta makes a good point aswell. While its possible to make decent power with the sc its easier, cheaper, and imo more fun to do it with a turbo. Think about it do you want to have your boost increase your hp from 3000 rpm or do you want it make full boost at redline. Ofcourse you can increase boost on the sc so that down low is better but you can never change the way a centrifugal sc works which is boost relative to engine rpm. I think the sc is good too and has its place its easier to maintane and not eveyone wants to be always checking and rechecking things on their car.

 

I just wanted to point out that there are not any SC'ed tC's in the 13s yet.. Not even a 13.9. That tells you something right there.

There are a few turbo tC's running low 12s and pretty much every single one is in the 13s.

 

^^^ well thats the less upgradeble thing I was saying, if someone can make an intercooler for the sc with fm you can increase boost higher. Not sure how the whole boost thing works on sc. Is it the same as a turbo and at about 10-12 you shoudl start thinking about beefier internals?

 

Hopefully we are all smart enough to figure out, that I was talking about in a different, RWD car.

 

HUGE rear sway bar? and handbrake are you best friends hahahahaha

 

Hopefully we are also smart enough to realize that the pertinent part is the part that relates to the thread.

 

the original comment was not to induce an OFFtopic frenzy of discussion, therefore invalid is your response.... it was just a friendly little comment between Nester and I, nothing more.

 

My original comment was also not meant to induce anything further off topic but I would hardly consider this a frenzy therefore it's all invalid. But enough of this..

 

Have you guys actually tried drifting the tC? Mine is stock except for TRD springs, and I think it drifts fairly well for a FWD. Very easy to pitch sideways and keep it sliding with the throttle, especially with the stock Yoko's. While it's likely not up to snuff for any type of drifting competition, it's a lot of fun for casual drifting.