Northwest side, not far from the shop i mentioned.

Here is the website http://www.spracingonline.com/ they are known nationwide so definitely check it out.

 

I work close to that area. In Melrose Park. I was looking at their website.

I live on the Northside of Chicago, a couple miles north of Wrigley Field.

 

Hey man,
Just start back at ground zero like people of mentioned. First, get all of your bolt on parts taken off. Obviously leave the SC on and take it to a trusty tuner that an Illinois member of SL can help refer you to. If not, take it to a Toyta dealership and have them reflash your ECU. This will bring your car out of limp mode. Next, enjoy and appreciate the car with just the SC for a few thousand miles and then add your bolt on parts at that point. I can tell one thing that I have not regretted with my tC tuning. Is the fact that I have been so broke over the past four years of owning my car that adding one part at a time really gives you an appreciation for how your money is being spent and where you might not spend your money in the future. You will get it all figured out man, trust me I have been through tons of crappy local tuners here in KY and you live and learn.

 

We (the new tuner I am working with and myself) figured out for sure that the re-flash was not done. That's the problem.

The morons that did the original work just ran the FIC piggyback by itself and tuned it that way. Completely skipped the re-flash. Didn't even open the little box the module was in.

I'm waiting for scheduled time with his tuner now. Not driving the car at all until this is done. He's got a friend that works at a Toyota dealer that can do the re-flash on the side for me for about $200, then they are going to re-tune.

What a hassle those guys put me through. But, at least I'm getting to the bottom of it.

 

The reflash only costs $100, and you have an fic already, so why waste money on the reflash just to retune it with the fic?

 

You have to if you have the TRD supercharger, which I do. If you don't re-flash, you have the problem I am having. You can't rely on the FIC to perform what the ECU is supposed to do. This is the same mistake the shop that did all the work made. Re-flash is absolutely necessary.

Only the dealer has the equipment needed to perform the re-flash, and they gave me about the same price anyways.

 

I've got a friend with S/C 9.5 setup. All he did was have the kit installed and had the toyota reflash. His A/F was just fine and the car ran like a champ. I would say eliminate the F/IC and intake, get it reflashed by toyota after putting the stock pulley back on and drive it around for a while. Then you can add one piece at a time to let the ecu do the learning. You need to make a big decision whether you want to use a piggyback or not. If you are firm on your choice of using the FI/C, then forget all of what I said and find a top notch tuner and pray he can get it running correctly. As far as an EMS, it sounds like a bit of overkill to me.

 

The discussion with the EMS only came up because the guy who I'm working with now didn't realize that the TRD S/C came with the TRD module for re-flash. Prior to knowing this, his suggestion was to get rid of the FIC and get an EMS.

Now that he and I are on the same page, he agrees that the re-flash needs to be done and the EMS is way overkill.

At this point, I'm having the re-flash done and we're going to run the car like that without the FIC for a while and I will make a decision from there. But, it is evident that the re-flash WAS NOT done. This is for sure the problem.

The car is trying to run the S/C on the FIC with tune only. The ECU is fighting it.

 

may not have been the problem....peep the fic set up sticky....if the fic isnt set up properly youll run into alot of issues including injector sudden cut off at wot, cam and crank cels, poor drivability. just because your supercharged doesnt mean that the fic isnt a viable option. The fic cant tell if your turbo or supercharged so it doesnt matter. Iv had enough experiance with it to know.

 

^^ Listen to crush in regards to setting up the F/IC. It MUST be properly calibrated...even if you plopped a tune on it. For now, I would suggest running exactly what TRD had intended to make sure you have a solid baseline performance to make further decisions on. I'll be following this thread to help you out as much as I can. GL

 

absolutely don't "have" to have the relash. All you need is to get tuned for boost. How do you figure turbo guys are running the fi/c fine and its only causing you problems? boost is boost. A reflash + tuning is like doing the same thing twice, and the fi/c can't advance timing so if you get the reflash you'll be loosing the benefit of running higher timing than the trd tune will allow you to.

 

Let me "rephrase" that then. Especially after spending the last month getting my hands dirty in the car with my tuner working on a few projects (including fixing the afore mentioned problem).

1. No, you don't have to install the TRD reflash. Yes, the car will run without it BUT the ECM is struggling to keep the motor safe. Is it ALWAYS best to reflash the ECM, you bettcha.

2. Boost IS NOT Boost. A S/C brings on the boost in a linear fashion with the engine RPMs. This is much easier on an engine and gives the ECM time to react. Turbo boost comes on very sudden and exerts stress into the motor. The ECM has very little time to react. How many motors have you ever heard that were damaged by the boost from their S/C? Now how many from a turbo?

3. Turbos can run with JUST a piggyback because what they need is fuel hard and fast.

4. No matter what you hook up, the ECM is calling the shots. This is especially true with ignition timing. A friend of mine (who has assisted me from afar) has the Mack Daddy of piggybacks (Greddy Ultimate) and veteran tuner Kenny Tran with many years of experience with Scions, and even he can't get the ECM to behave. It is a spoiled brat.

The TRD maps are already set and unchangeable, therefore by definition, NOT considered tuning. It is a reflash of the ECM EEPROM. There is so much more to what the ECM does that a piggyback can't even come close. In fact, our ECM does more than the best standalone out there. Piggyback controllers really only affect WOT settings. Other than that, the ECM is calling the shots.

The computer in our car is exceptionally smart. What is the Scion’s computer called, an ECU or an ECM? We know it's true acronym; the ECM.

 

boost is boost, whether its in a linear fashion, or full boost at 2.5 rpm, all it is is forced induction

no reason why the FIC cant tune the supercharger, seems like you have a lot of reading to do.

the reason why people end up with blown motors is 1, turbo has the ability to generate tons more boost, whereas the supercharger is seriously limited by pulley size and rpm limit, therefore making is "safer" does not mean that a turbo is "dangerous" for your engine!

it all comes down to tuning, like everyone said, start picking off the parts, get the reflash and forget about the FIC, or just find someone who can tune your FIC properly, plenty of people are running FICs with little or no issues.

 

That still doesn't make sense because getting the TRD tune and then retuning right away is tuning twice. And if you read up on it you would know that the TRD tune causes problems with tuning with a piggy back. Also the TRD tune has a very conservative ignition timing map which piggybacks can't adjust. Thats why your better off just tuning a stock non trd ecu.

 

Exactly. I came in here to basically say that.

The TRD Re-flash is basically the same thing as the F/IC. The only difference is that the TRD re-flash comes pre-tuned, the F/IC does not. They can both do the exact same thing in terms of fuel and ignition adjustments.

If you run the TRD re-flash, the F/IC is a waste of money unless you're planning on going with a 12+ PSI pulley. Tons of people have the TRD+9.5 pulley and they're cars run fine.

Boost = Boost. Boost is nothing more than the introduction of pressurized air. Just because it is created in a different manor, doesn't mean that it's a completely different thing.

With that said, that's exactly why the F/IC can work with the S/C. The maps will be completely different from a turbo setup, but it can still work.

So why wouldn't the F/IC work with the S/C? You do know that you can adjust the fuel map in the F/IC to add more fuel at a slower rate, right? That's why piggybacks would work on a 1psi setup or a 30psi setup. They're flexible. With something like the F/IC, all you need to do is tune the O2 map, and you're damn near finished. The fuel map is only there to make slight alterations to smooth out the AFRs. It (just like you said) allows the stock ECM to control the fuel flow, and (just like you said, again) the stock ECM is very fast. That's why piggybacks work so well.

Another thing. If turbo's stress out an engine so much more than a S/C, why do so many cars come from the factory with turbos...and almost none come with S/C? Sure, turbos are MUCH better for power and fuel efficiency, but a car manufacturers #1 concern is reliability.

 

To put it as easy as possible.

Let's take a S/C that flows 50lb/min and a turbo that flows 50lb/min. Identically sized units, running on the exact same engines, with the same exact injectors, etc etc. Now the S/C has a 10lb pulley, meaning it will peak @ 10PSI at redline. The turbo has a 10lb wastegate spring, meaning the wastegate will expel excess air when the manifold has 10 lbs of pressurized air.

Okay, you still with me so far?

Now, when the S/C hits 10PSI at redline, and the turbo hits 10PSI at redline, how is the 10PSI from the S/C different from the 10PSI in the turbo? Both are creating 10lbs of pressurized air, and since both units have the same airflow rating, both are flowing the same CFM.

 

And one more thing.

Turbos do not blow up motors. Detonation blows up motors.

Ask ANY tuner and they will tell you that the #1 cause to blown motors is detonation. If they don't tell you this, I HIGHLY suggest you find another tuner, because they don't have a clue as to wtf they're talking about.

 

also SC are at a big disadvantage simply because they put a big parasitic drain on your engine to make power, whereas a turbo is using spent gases to power the turbine, so i dont know who told you that turbos "exerts stress into the motor" when infact its superchargers that cause stress

like i said up top, you have a lot of reading to do, and find a good tuner

 

The parasitic loss is a big deal when it comes to a 4cyl forced induction setup via a supercharger. The TRD supercharger is the least efficient supercharger design. The turbo is putting the same amount of stress on the motor as the supercharger if they are both making the same power, at the same AFR's, at the same boost. However, the turbo will hit peak boost long before redline (assuming correctly matched turbo setup is installed) and thus will make your car faster. The downside that can easily be fixed by using the proper size turbo, is boost lag. In the grand scheme of things, the pro's outweigh the con's by far by going turbo for power. For warranty, reliability, and ease of tuning, the supercharger has it's benefits but if you are like most of us in the forced induction forums, you want to go as fast as safely possible. This would mean a turbo set-up is a better choice. In a case where you simply want more power than a simple I/H/E setup can yield you but you don't want to go through the intricacies and hassle of installing a turbo set-up, the supercharger is your only option besides nitrous. I wish you the best of luck in whatever venture you choose just like any other SL member here and love to see progress on our TC's.

 

I just always have to chime in when someone mentions warranty, reliability, and the TRD supercharger in the same sentence. Have you owned a trd supercharger? If you had you would know that both warranty and reliability are crap.