exactly what i'm worried about

phil, your maps are notttttt running good on my car

i went and tried starting my car yesterday and left it running for 15 minutes.....by 10 minutes the rpm's were dying and eventually got to the point that i had to restart the car.

 

Um...youhave not downpipe and no primary OR secondary 02 sensor in!

 

Only one of the maps I gave you even run with the CEL on. The other 2 should run once you get your pipe finished and the sensors put in....maybe.

 

hahah they all ran for a bit.

GUESS WHAT I FOUND! i didn't tighten my bolts from the manifold to the turbo

holy crap.

 

holy crap is right.

I no longer think I want to be there when you starting driving that thing on the street!

hey, why don't you post some pics of how big that turbo is in there? And do you have an intake pipe on there yet?

 

You need to continue looking up info and learning how to do it your self. Sending it off to be tuned will not give you the greatest tune possible. Those tuners use safe maps because they want it to work for everyone. There will be areas you can improve on. It will be a good base tune, a point to start from, but it won't be a end all solution. Then when you get the tune back, run it on a dyno, get your bragging rights and remember that # Then when you learn how to tune you can and will see the areas that you can improve on. Then when you get it tuned to your satisfaction take it back to the dyno and your # WILL be higher. No 2 cars are the same, there will allways be differences in the tune of each car.

 

Yea man, thanks to you i actually have a intake on there. If you want i can give you some cash for it btw

 

so i went to tighten the bolts. guess what i found.

oh lovely treadstone decided to send me the bolts with the right tread and right pitch.'

only problem is that, on the manifold the hole isn't tapped all the way down the same distance as the bolt itself; so thats the reason why it wasn't on properly, luckily my twisting and turning stripped hte bolt and it fell deeper into the half tapped hole and it's sitting flush now.

-whew.

 

Sweet! I'm just glad it worked for you.
Did it fit perfect, or did you have the zip tie the MAF sensor down?

 

zip tie, matt is still giving me the 3inch pipe i think......it doesn't neccessarily fit perfect because i DO have a 4 inch inlet lol

 

ya i just emailed todd about that again.
so hopefully the mexicans will get here with their mules and bring me my stuff

 

Um...the one I gave you was a 2.5, I think. but you found a coupler to work?

 

i just tightened it down till it met up hahah

 

so i opened up the owners manual and it was right in front of my face.

i can for sure tune.

 

Yeah, I feel ya Malloynx cars are much more sensitive to modifications now than before, thus in some ways making it harder for people to tweak them as they please.

I think the road tune with STFT and LTFT would most likely stretch over 2-3 days, 2 hours per day. Reason I had done this is because the STFT influences the LTFT and would probably take 50+ miles before the values stabilise and you get your true reading.

As I would explain to aen (if you are reading this) :

ie. Now you see your idle @ 1k rpm @ 20inHg @ +5.5% STFT and + 10.0% LTFT, what this means is that your injectors are spraying more gas (5.5%) to keep the stoich value of AFR 14.7 in close loop. The LTFT of +10.0% are the accumulated and extrapolation of all the STFT values recorded over time so that cannot be altered quickly or immediately.

In order to reduce the STFT and LTFT, we would then need to use a piggyback to increase the pulse width signal sent by the ecu to spray more gas ie. volts or cell values on the aftermarket map hack

When this happens, you see that your STFT has perhaps fallen to -7.0% (too much fuel, ecu reducing injector rate). WAIT! don't panic, after driving perhaps for 15 miles, you see your LTFT falling as well ie. perhaps to +2.0%. Yes, this is primarily what you are trying to achieve, a reduction of both FTs whereby the ideal values are 0.0%.

So in essence,

a) +5% STFT and +10% LTFT = +15% total buffer value

b) -7% STFT and +2% LTFT = -5% total buffer value

Bearing in mind 2 values would be self cancelling ie +2 and -2 = 0

STFT values are dynamic and constantly change in order to achieve the embedded ecu protocol for 14.7AFR in close loop. When it goes open loop, the ecu relies on the LTFT + look up tables in the stock ecu to help fueling in those regions. So if you screw up ST, most like your LT is poop too. Their relationship is symbiotic in nature and cannot be independent or isolated.

Classic example to illustrate :

Remember ZPI Stage 0 where Kenny and boys stated NO piggyback is required to run their 6.5psi intercooler-less bolt on wonder bra?

Well, they weren't lying but its just that they did not disclose the fact that the STFT and LTFT values would be running very high ie +19% STFT and +22% LTFT. Very close to the CEL trigger point, they were lucky it did not trip the CEL or sales wouldn't be that many in the 1st place The car ran I'm sure ok on the stock injectors but perhaps on 90% duty cycle and still somewhat leanish? Not to mention the partial throttle or close loop region would still be AFR 14.5-ish as well.

So is STFT and LTFT important in tuning up performance when installing power adders? Most definitely, since current cars all employ positive feedback loop systems aka the o2 sensors

I figured tweaking will eventually be harder once CAN protocol is in place. This complicates tuning a little more since ALL feedback sensors will be LINKED to the stock ecu (no more seperate boxes or modules running different stuff)

 

of course i'm reading this!

and understanding quite a bit too! it's making more and more sense now that i opened up the owners manual and figured out what the values meant in this program.

i have a bunch of questions though

1. what is inHG?
2. in order to know my stft and ltft i would need the obII scanner yes?
3. could i tune according to AFR's by changing fuel values based off of load and rpm?

 

This would depend on your personal character and/or future plans to your car mod endeavours. Only you yourself can answer this question.

To help nudge you in the right direction :

a) Do you want to be forever at the mercy of "tuners" and keep shelling out Benjis only to find out that what "tuners" have done, you could do it yourself?

b) Do you intend to use "special" products that only authorised dealers can tweak? ie. UniChip(not sure), Motec, HKS F-Con Pro, Autronic

c) Do you always accept what the "tuners" say as the gospel truth about stuff in general even though it maybe proven otherwise?

d) Do you something think about certain comments by "tuner shops" and say 'He must know his thang! He has a shop for goodness sakes!' but what he/she says seem to defy simple logic and you grow suspicious?

e) Is tuning that freakin' difficult that you do not intend to even attempt to learn more?

If your answers are mostly NO, start reading books and asking questions in the forums. There is no such thing as a stupid question, we all learn. The trick to bear in mind is that not all posted info are applicable or usable. Learn over time to filter out crap, atrocity and garbage info posted.

I can't help but to think sometimes that the truly knowledgable car enthusiast rarely post on the forum, they just read through it after a bad day at work and have a good laugh over the nonsensical comments we've all posted one time or another (this includes me), then they sleep better at night

 

1) Inches in Mercury. Thats the measure of vacuum, as opposed to Inches of Water which measures pressure (This is the method used to determine the best position to place your air ram duct funnel on your car front bumper)

2) Some handheld scanners DO read while others may not (ie. only reset fault codes) you would need to run through ebay to have an idea

3) Yes you can. Its just a little more troublesome since the cell values on the map will have to correspond to the co-efficient values inputed in the earlier clamp tables or such (not too familiar with fic, sorry I didn't buy it)

 

lol, education is only measured by the amount of cash you have in your pocket.....well in this society it's like that. oh, but yea! for sure i'm going to learn

right now though...i'm going to try and see if i can tune without hte OB II scanner.

 

I couldn't agree with you more DarkSnake

You poisonous.... You bite.... I die....

You know whats happening in this sh11ty world of biz and consumers' wants.