tC Sound Quality Build from Simplicity in Sound *pics*
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Club One
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 882
From: Austin, TX
I was curious as to why the tweeters were put into the pillar as well. I don't know too much about car sq, but I thought they sounded best in the door similar to where the stock tC tweeter mount is?
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Club One
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 882
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by mike6789k
wrong, they will sound best as close as possible to the midbass driver.. in our cars the easiest place is to put it in the kick panel... really easy to wire as well!
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Oolollol
Originally Posted by WeaponX6X
Originally Posted by mike6789k
wrong, they will sound best as close as possible to the midbass driver.. in our cars the easiest place is to put it in the kick panel... really easy to wire as well!
but i prefer soft tweeters so that you can have them close to the midbass and still fire on-axis
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 48
From: San Jose, CA
hey guys,
in my expereince competing in and building cars for SQ competitions, i dont agree with you guys on a few things:
1. putting metal dome tweeters off axis does indeed help with harshenss in certain vehicles, but it certainly isnt not done so by reflecting off the windshield. infact, windshield reflections cuase the exact opposite effect, it cuases harshness in the upper mirdange and highs.
2. there is no such rule as you MUST have time alignment to put tweeters into the A pillars, it varies a lot from car to car. sure, the combinationof TA and a pillar works well to gain a high stage and good center image for a single seat listening position, but there is nothing to say that having A pillar tweets without TA for some odd reason would sound horrible. especially in a car such as the TC, wehre the long dash and windshield makes for a relatively equal pathlength mount for the A pillar.
3. In the TC, i have done kick, mounted tweeters: http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37244
and we talked about doing it again for this car, but the customer ultimated chose the A pillar location, comparing the two, the A pillarlocation yielded a less overall rainbowing of the sound staging versus the kick panel. my opinion is without an full array of DSP and active amping, the two locations in the Z, isnt all that different SQ wise.
4. the stock location tweeters in most cars, upper door or saile panel, is one of hte worst locations you can do, they for hte mos tpart, yield way too much highs and cuasing even normally smooth speakres to sound harsh. the idea in general is to put tweeters as far forward as possile in the vehicle.
5. the debate of on axis versus off axis tweeters is one thats been ongoing for a long time in the SQ circles. beyond the fact that this is not a serious SQ vehicle, my experinece with doing more serious SQ vehicles and off/on axis tweetrs is this, off axis tweeters often yields a deeper stage and better overall imaging, while on axis tweets is easier to tune for tonality. but there are plenty of SQ comp cars out there, htat feature both designs.
in the end, my suggestion is to pay less attention to theory and just go out nad listen to various cars at sq comps, you will find that many different solutions can get you great results
b
in my expereince competing in and building cars for SQ competitions, i dont agree with you guys on a few things:
1. putting metal dome tweeters off axis does indeed help with harshenss in certain vehicles, but it certainly isnt not done so by reflecting off the windshield. infact, windshield reflections cuase the exact opposite effect, it cuases harshness in the upper mirdange and highs.
2. there is no such rule as you MUST have time alignment to put tweeters into the A pillars, it varies a lot from car to car. sure, the combinationof TA and a pillar works well to gain a high stage and good center image for a single seat listening position, but there is nothing to say that having A pillar tweets without TA for some odd reason would sound horrible. especially in a car such as the TC, wehre the long dash and windshield makes for a relatively equal pathlength mount for the A pillar.
3. In the TC, i have done kick, mounted tweeters: http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37244
and we talked about doing it again for this car, but the customer ultimated chose the A pillar location, comparing the two, the A pillarlocation yielded a less overall rainbowing of the sound staging versus the kick panel. my opinion is without an full array of DSP and active amping, the two locations in the Z, isnt all that different SQ wise.
4. the stock location tweeters in most cars, upper door or saile panel, is one of hte worst locations you can do, they for hte mos tpart, yield way too much highs and cuasing even normally smooth speakres to sound harsh. the idea in general is to put tweeters as far forward as possile in the vehicle.
5. the debate of on axis versus off axis tweeters is one thats been ongoing for a long time in the SQ circles. beyond the fact that this is not a serious SQ vehicle, my experinece with doing more serious SQ vehicles and off/on axis tweetrs is this, off axis tweeters often yields a deeper stage and better overall imaging, while on axis tweets is easier to tune for tonality. but there are plenty of SQ comp cars out there, htat feature both designs.
in the end, my suggestion is to pay less attention to theory and just go out nad listen to various cars at sq comps, you will find that many different solutions can get you great results
b
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,406
From: Oolollol
Originally Posted by simplicityinsound
hey guys,
in my expereince competing in and building cars for SQ competitions, i dont agree with you guys on a few things:
1. putting metal dome tweeters off axis does indeed help with harshenss in certain vehicles, but it certainly isnt not done so by reflecting off the windshield. infact, windshield reflections cuase the exact opposite effect, it cuases harshness in the upper mirdange and highs.
2. there is no such rule as you MUST have time alignment to put tweeters into the A pillars, it varies a lot from car to car. sure, the combinationof TA and a pillar works well to gain a high stage and good center image for a single seat listening position, but there is nothing to say that having A pillar tweets without TA for some odd reason would sound horrible. especially in a car such as the TC, wehre the long dash and windshield makes for a relatively equal pathlength mount for the A pillar.
3. In the TC, i have done kick, mounted tweeters: http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37244
and we talked about doing it again for this car, but the customer ultimated chose the A pillar location, comparing the two, the A pillarlocation yielded a less overall rainbowing of the sound staging versus the kick panel. my opinion is without an full array of DSP and active amping, the two locations in the Z, isnt all that different SQ wise.
4. the stock location tweeters in most cars, upper door or saile panel, is one of hte worst locations you can do, they for hte mos tpart, yield way too much highs and cuasing even normally smooth speakres to sound harsh. the idea in general is to put tweeters as far forward as possile in the vehicle.
5. the debate of on axis versus off axis tweeters is one thats been ongoing for a long time in the SQ circles. beyond the fact that this is not a serious SQ vehicle, my experinece with doing more serious SQ vehicles and off/on axis tweetrs is this, off axis tweeters often yields a deeper stage and better overall imaging, while on axis tweets is easier to tune for tonality. but there are plenty of SQ comp cars out there, htat feature both designs.
in the end, my suggestion is to pay less attention to theory and just go out nad listen to various cars at sq comps, you will find that many different solutions can get you great results
b
in my expereince competing in and building cars for SQ competitions, i dont agree with you guys on a few things:
1. putting metal dome tweeters off axis does indeed help with harshenss in certain vehicles, but it certainly isnt not done so by reflecting off the windshield. infact, windshield reflections cuase the exact opposite effect, it cuases harshness in the upper mirdange and highs.
2. there is no such rule as you MUST have time alignment to put tweeters into the A pillars, it varies a lot from car to car. sure, the combinationof TA and a pillar works well to gain a high stage and good center image for a single seat listening position, but there is nothing to say that having A pillar tweets without TA for some odd reason would sound horrible. especially in a car such as the TC, wehre the long dash and windshield makes for a relatively equal pathlength mount for the A pillar.
3. In the TC, i have done kick, mounted tweeters: http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37244
and we talked about doing it again for this car, but the customer ultimated chose the A pillar location, comparing the two, the A pillarlocation yielded a less overall rainbowing of the sound staging versus the kick panel. my opinion is without an full array of DSP and active amping, the two locations in the Z, isnt all that different SQ wise.
4. the stock location tweeters in most cars, upper door or saile panel, is one of hte worst locations you can do, they for hte mos tpart, yield way too much highs and cuasing even normally smooth speakres to sound harsh. the idea in general is to put tweeters as far forward as possile in the vehicle.
5. the debate of on axis versus off axis tweeters is one thats been ongoing for a long time in the SQ circles. beyond the fact that this is not a serious SQ vehicle, my experinece with doing more serious SQ vehicles and off/on axis tweetrs is this, off axis tweeters often yields a deeper stage and better overall imaging, while on axis tweets is easier to tune for tonality. but there are plenty of SQ comp cars out there, htat feature both designs.
in the end, my suggestion is to pay less attention to theory and just go out nad listen to various cars at sq comps, you will find that many different solutions can get you great results
b
also that kick install is what inspired me to do my car like that, you're so good! :D
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 48
From: San Jose, CA
good deal i have laways said, i love working on scions, the interior is really nicely set up for SQ...and there are quite a few options avaialbe to get great results..whcih is why i am so keen on one day getting the opportunity to do perhaps a SQ comp install in one hehe
i have laways said, i love working on scions, the interior is really nicely set up for SQ...and there are quite a few options avaialbe to get great results..whcih is why i am so keen on one day getting the opportunity to do perhaps a SQ comp install in one hehe
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