To all you Scion salesmen (or women) out there, will you be selling your tC's at MSRP or will you be putting on ADM?

Definition: ADM = Additional Dealer Mark-up.
Thats what they call it down south at least.

 

MSRP Pure price!

 

MSRP!!!!

 

$MSRP...why ____ people off!!

 

Always MSRP.

 

Sweet! Honest car dealers...

also, is Scion going to be offering any special financing options to go along with the tC launch?

I know that your credit score (+etc.) ultimately affects your % and terms, just wondering if they were posting anything.

 

rates will be based only on that months promotion..so i dont think we will know until July 1st

 

MSRP. This has been discussed by several dealers and the concensus has been that it would be better to live with lower initial gross profits and product shortages than to ____ off the customer base. In the long term, its a better way to do things and keeps the integrity of the Pure Price system.

As for rates, don't look for anything beyond what we currently have. This varies by region, but here in the Central Atlantic Region, tier 1 is at 4.4% and tier 2 is 5.3%. The 1.9% we have on some Toyota's is and incentivized rate, meaning the manufacturer buys down the standard rate to help move units that need help.

 

if you can lock it in before july (meaning purchase your car b4 july1st) you can get down to 4.25. but who knows what itll climb to in july, especially with the way things are looking

 

With Scions, the "ADM" usually takes the form of a "documentation fee" tacked on at the end of the transaction. This lets the dealers crow about selling at MSRP but still raise the real price to the customer. Make sure you ask your salesman about non-governmental fees early on in the transaction, but don't expect a straight answer without some probing.

"Pure Price" translates to "We charge everyone the same price today." That's all. Dealers are free to set whatever price they wish, but in most cases this has meant MSRP. Remembering that most other cars sell for well under MSRP, so getting a Scion at MSRP isn't all that great for the customer. The dealers, of course, love the guaranteed profit margin.

 

C'mon George, every car that rolls out of a dealership has the exact same Doc fee, whether it's something we're not making a lot of money on (i.e. scions, corollas, echos) or something we make a ton of money on. To say that the ADM takes the form of Doc fees for Scions is just inaccurate.

Doc fees are legitimate processing and handling fees that dealerships ask for in return for doing the DMV paperwork and arranging your reg and plates. Most dealerships ask a reasonable price, ours is $45.

I DO agree with you that some dealerships flat out rip people off on this. I would never pay a Doc fee of over $100, as this is just gouging in my personal opinion. This is another debate all together though.

To say we charge Doc fees to make money on Scions in lieu of ADM is wrong. The same Doc fees are charged to every deal no matter what they customer buys.

 

I'd love it a whole lot more if that margin was more than $650 gross! LOL. Seriously George, in exchange for an easy process, we accept lower gross profits and I am actually satisfied with that. Its a mutally beneficial trade-off.

 

[quote Remembering that most other cars sell for well under MSRP, so getting a Scion at MSRP isn't all that great for the customer. The dealers, of course, love the guaranteed profit margin.[/quote]

Also remember "most" cars have around 10-12% markup from cost to MSRP which the scions do not. The Scions also do not have holdback like "most" cars. One more thing, the auto industry has always had one of the smallest profit margins in the retail sector. I think if the dealers who post on this forum were just out for profit many of them would go back their Toyota sides of the dealerships where profits are well above Scion in dollar amount and percentage.

All of you are getting a fantastic car at would could be considered well under what this car would "list" or actually sell for if made by any other auto company.

And I for one would never go back to our Toyota side for more profit, I love these cars and customers too much :D !

 

they might not have a ADM but watch out for the little things, my dealer tried to put the $200 window vin # Etching fee on the deal. I told them no... It only took me talking to the general sales manger to take it off my bill.

 

Ah, the salesmen protest!

The fact that everyone who shops at your dealership get stuck with a junk fee doesn't change the fact that:

Additional Dealer Markup = more money out of the customer's pocket and into the dealer's
Documentation Fee = more money out of the customer's pocket and into the dealer's

From the customer's end, there's no difference except that the documentation fee is less obvious.

In conventional auto sales, many dealers are happy to sell at invoice and live on the 2%-3% holdback. That's $300-$450 gross on a $15K car. Suddenly a guaranteed $650 gross isn't all that bad!

How do we know that a number of salesmen haven't followed exactly that route? At least with Scion you don't have to compete with a dozen other salesmen, as well as spend your days haggling with customers.

I don't know of any dealership that is run for charitable reasons. The entire goal is to make money and as much of it as possible. I cannot speak to the motivations of the salesmen who post here except to say that they seem to be surviving.

If you think that the retail auto business has a small profit margin, you should check out the retail grocery business! 2% is fantastic there, and they aren't selling $15k to every customer either! Frankly, I don't see any basis for the car salesman's whines of poverty, as car dealerships seem to be in better shape than most businesses. Our local Toyota dealer just built a $$$ multistory parking structure!

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Would a Cube sell for more than an xB? Could Toyota have sold the xB to the dealers for $2K less? The only way we will find out is when there is more competition. As long as Toyota is selling all the xBs they import, there is no reason to change the price. What Toyota does with the price of all the leftover 2004 xAs will be very instructive!

George

 

I love it.

Regardless of how a forum starts, once George gets involved, it becomes a sounding board for his anti-dealer politics!

It seems that no matter what any of us (dealers) do, George will somehow have his Cheerios ____ed in.

We give up George. You're right. Car dealers shouldn't be allowed profit, ever. What we do is EXACTLY the same as a grocery store, and we're all out to get you, in particular.**

Sorry about the tone, but I've just spent another Saturday of my life getting verbally abused by indignant customers who feel I am less of a human due to my chosen profession.

LATER

**JK

 

ADM = Unjustified increase in profit to make money on a hot item
Doc Fee = Justified charge for handling paperwork and DMV processing. The DMV clerks employed by the dealership don't work for free.

We take a lot of deals at invoice or just over, true. In fact, fleet/internet depts do this constantly to insure the dealership meets volume quotas and gain better allocations. However the retail sales floor averages a lot more than $300-$400 per copy. A $650 gross is skimpy when you're talking about MSRP on a $16,000 unit, and keep in mind the average salesman is going to get a $100 mini commission on $650 gross.

Nobody here is whining about being in poverty, but think about how many Scions you have to sell to make a living when you're making $100 a shot.

C'mon, comparing the average gross between a grocery store, which sells more items a day than most dealerships do in a month is stretching it. Sure a grocery store makes a mere 2%, but they're selling thousands of things a day, all day, every day.

No salesman here is whining about being poor (although your average salesman is making about $30K a year, nothing great), nor is anybody denying that dealerships make a ton of money. The owners of my dealership are loaded...$$$$bling bling loaded. However, I don't know what your local dealership's $$$parking structure has to do with the fact that they're making $650 a copy on scions, of which they probably sell 20 a month. Dealerships are getting money from parts dept, service dept, vendors, and probably other investments as well. The owners of my dealership are heavily invested in real estate and bring a lot of their profit from that back into the dealership.

There is such a bad stigma associated with the car business. In my brief time in the industry, I've met more honest hardworking people at this dealership than I have in any previous job. So what if dealerships are trying to make a profit, who isn't? It's the point of a business. As long as they do it in a reasonable, fair, and honest manner. If a customer doesn't like the way their dealership is treating them, then they should leave. I know I wouldn't do business anywhere I felt uncomfortable.

People like Verone, Rich, Rick, Shannon, myself and just about every other salesman who cares enough to post on this forum bust our asses to give our customers as positive an experience possible. If I have a customer who is unhappy I take it personally and I do what I can to correct the problem.

Charging a $45 doc fee to help pay the DMV clerk who processes hundreds of registration and title forms each month doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Scion is a great product at a more than great price. Toyota has done a fantastic job of putting in place a system that prevents people from getting ripped off. It's by no means a perfect science, but it's leaps and bounds ahead of the old school car selling process.

 

lol....tell me about it. I'm going to re-enlist.

 

Here in Kasas City, we will be selling them at MSRP.

 

Sorry to hear that.. other salesmen certainly ruin it for the good ones. I've been car shopping for over 2 months.. met 13 salesmen and only found one that's been completely straight with me... it's not your fault other salesmen suck, but by chosing that profession, you have to push off the occasional attack :D Worth it considering what you make (if you're good at it of course ).

Luckily your not alone.. you share that same pain with a lot of attorneys, cops, tax collectors, and algebra teachers

Not all dealers are the devil... I have the feeling George, like myself, has been screwed more times than the new guy in cell block c.

As far as this pricing issue goes.. you can always walk away if you're not feeling good about the deal. This pure pricing deal is a good trade.. just don't get taken by unnecessary warranties, scotchguarding, VIN etching, inflated interest rates, and mostly odd and end fees. It's up to you to be strong and not let yourself get screwed.

Thanks to all of the good salesmen that try to make it a pleasant experience.. now as for those finance guys.. WATCH OUT! :o