engifineer

People need to realize, the car really isnt cheap. If it were 19 - 20k, you would be able to talk them down to 17k easy. They just took that step out of it. I got more than I paid for IMO (in todays terms anyway). I have a great car, by a good manufacturer that moves pretty well for a 4 banger and has the features that comparable cars SHOULD already have. I see it more as proof that a company does not have to charge more for what we have. Hopefully the others will follow suit. And Scion is raking in the cash due to it. They drop the price and sell 3 times the amount of cars. Works out great for them.

And as far as expecting BMW? Well, I know many people who own BMWs... and I would expect a HELL of a lot more for what you spend on one of those.. IMO you get better car per dollar anywere else. The ones I know that are more than a couple of years old need the door pins replaced because the doors sag like hell, they rattle, and basically become like any other car. The engine and tranny hold their own, but then again, so does toyota. And lexus... well, if I was going to spend that much I would just shop around and buy a real beamer you gotta realize that many of those "premium" cars are priced to be "premium" cars. Take a good 20,000 dollar car and price it at 35,000 and you know what you have? A bunch of richer people buying them because now they are "premium" cars. Not to say you never get what you pay for, but many times you are paying more than what it is worth from the get go.

ALL cars are grossly overpriced these days to start with. And being from an engineering background and having spent many days beneath the hoods of various cars I can tell you the design is lacking in most of them. They are becoming disposable commodities. But, that is getting off onto a different story....

engifineer

Hell, shoulda read your post all the way through before posting mine Very well put. I am glad to see that others out there in the market realize the pricing strategy as well. If BMW started selling thier cars for 20k none of the beamer crowd would buy them anymore because then they would be "cheap" cars.

Captain_tC

Exactly!!

And Engifineer and I are not talking out our ***** either. It's based on engineering experience, and some business courses - "Marketing". The beamers would definitely lose sales if they lower their prices. Lots of psychology, brain washing crap goes into marketing.

matt_a

Well said. I agree completely. I can't believe someone would pay $17,000 for ANYTHING and then say, "Oh well, what do you expect? " Quality should be top priority. If a company can't put out a quality product for $17,000, then they shouldn't release it. I'm not suggesting that the tC is not quality. I'm going by what I've read here and the responces he got. My xA only cost me $12,995 and it's been flawless.

Jaywade24

well said

Rivulent

People sure do pounce on these types of threads.

ZlineDavid

I wouldn't give you 20K for a BMW, unless it came with a lifetime warranty and free rental cars for the duration of my ownership.

Bavarian
Money
Wasters[/b]

TrafficinLA

*pounces*

Since I bought the car, I'll let my car speak for itself. So far, after 30,000 miles, I've experienced hatch rattle at times and a squeaky head unit door. Oil changes are done every 5000 miles and maintenance every 10,000. Do I baby my car? Not really. I go to car washes maybe twice a month and let them do whatever. I've been accused of driving like I do in Gran Turismo and squealing the tires on certain turns. I commute with the tC and it has been great to me.

jaydub

I think what some of us were saying by bringing the car's price into the equation is that some people's perceptions of how a car should be at this price point are a bit skewed. My reason for saying that is because it's unreasonable to expect a $17k car be a premium luxury car. I agree with what you've been saying though, and marketing plays a HUGE role in Scion's success, which I think is awesome because I'm a marketing major.

fivepointnine

dont know what all you guys are talking about...the stock shifter sucks, but so does a civics, TWM took care of that. I have a little sunroof rattle, but Im not concerned. I have 7700 miles and 6 months, nothing has went wrong with my car....NOTHING! and I definately DO NOT baby it.

Captain_tC

I dont think anyone is suggesting the tC is a luxary/premium car. We dont have super powerful engines, climate control, standard side airbags, leather/power seats etc. But since when are things like a rattle free car a feature exclusive to mercedes or BMWs? Ah hah! gotcha

My main problem with some responses are the fact that people say things like "deal with your problems, you bought a cheap car". That is pure nonsense.

engifineer

But the main point is, going off of Toyotas track record.. the minor issues that have occured will be addressed and taken care of over time. It does take time to figure some of them out. Toyota is a top runner right now, they arent going to be stupid and drop the ball on one of their new high visibility products.

TRDtC480

I think we need some tissue to wipe tears in some of these posts.

jaydub

No, you're exactly right. Toyota doesn't have issues with fixing things that are truly problematic, and I don't think they'd pull a VW and deny, deny, deny. It was shameful, lots of VW 1.8t owners had problems with failed coilpacks, and VW said there was no issue. A bit later, they recalled them all and fixed them.

I have had to deal with Scion customer care due to my roof problem, and they have been nothing short of amazing (though assisting me with a rental car would've been nice). I know they're aware of how their reputation affects their sales, so I know they wouldn't let some minor problem tarnish their name.

tonytc

well 1st off people don't start a thread with My Tranny is great... or my paint is great... It's only the few that are experencing problems that need to vent... I have one of the last 05's built and they have corrected these minor problems ... my mats are the same one on the 06's ... No rattles ... riding with the radio off I could see how quiet this car really is.... I have the Auto and you can't even feel it shift .. it is butter smooth... As far as the paint Every Car's paint will chip from highway driving behind someone.. little stones will hit your car at 60MPH I don't drive too much highway and have NO chips yet... The car I had before this was a Nissan Spec V and I had more chips on that car in the same time .. and on their Forums thay will always say how cheap the paint is.... to me this car is Lexus quaility .. ride ,fit and finish, materials used .. the frame has been in production for years in the European Version.. the engine is in the #1 selling car in the US (camry) ... this makes for a very refined car. For the money this car should cost much more... Another thing is I don't care what kind of car it is 17K or a 50k car .. someone out there will still have a problem and complain... Iam 110% satisfied with my desision to purchase this car ... would do it all over again in a heart beat...

lucky

"Toyota doesn't have issues with fixing things that are truly problematic, and I don't think they'd pull a VW and deny, deny, deny. It was shameful"


Uh, hello, engine sludge?

jaydub

News to me. My family currently has four Toyota products and with each one, we've been informed in a timely manner of any recalls (really the only one I can remember was on my wife's Tacoma, some fuel filler nozzle fix). Engine sludge is something VW/Audi had to deal with as well, due to people's inability to change their oil. I remember that one was fairly recent.

engifineer

Out of the literally hundreds of Toyota owners I have known, not one has had issues with engine sludge. As a matter of fact, other than two mentions of it on here (including yours) I have NEVER heard of that happening, other than people using "extended" drain intervals (and not only on toyota products). And I owned a corolla with over 300,000 miles on it.

engifineer

Exactly, people bought right into the 7k or more extended intervals with synthetic, completely disregarding the crap that builds up in your oil system regardless. So now companies have to design for peoples mistakes. But, I will get flamed for even bringing that up I am sure. But, I have seen it happen, my father has seen it happen to many cars of his customers, hell I dont know a mechanic that hasnt heard of it happening... but what do i know?

tom

I had to take my car in for some rattling issues and the loaner cars I've gotten have been a 2002 escort with 40k miles and a 2002 prism with about the same number of miles. Both were rattle free, and were, sadly, a relief to drive compared to the interior noise my car generates. Both are cars that could, being generous, sell for 4-8k. Don't get me wrong... the escort was a piece of crap considering how new it was, but it was also decidedly rattle free.

In that sense, I think it's *perfectly* reasonable to expect a car to be rattle-free for at least 40k miles when the initial selling price is 16-17k. $16 thousand really isn't cheap considering the quality of car you can get for less than that on the used market.