I honestly can't say anything about the fuel-cut issue. In my 06, I believe it only cuts spark and pulls the timing. This allows the powertrain to continue rotating, making it smoother.

If it does undergo fuel cut, it'd be like hitting a brick wall, losing speed in the process. We'll have to confirm this with an actual 07+ owner.

I can bounce off the rev limiter without losing speed. I simply just don't gain any while it's bouncing. As a matter of technique, I hit the rev limiter, and try to simply hold RPMs at just below, keeping my speed. I've never had a course where it'd be worth it to go to 3rd, particularly because I'd QUICKLY out-accelerate my ability to slow.

I've had a few runs (at the end of the day) where I started trying new things... actually built up speed during a long sweeper (just following a tight right-hander) ... so much so that I could actually get to 3rd as the sweeper went straight.

The straightaway led to a tight turn, and I ended up waiting far too late to brake, coming from mid-3rd. ... and there I went, sailing completely THROUGH the turn.

Extremely funny. Thankfully, had already posted my best time.

 

My mistake. The 05-06 cuts spark, whereas the 06-07 cuts fuel. The fuel cut is actually pretty well documented on SL, and I might make a video of it when I get home from work. It seriously is just like hitting a brick wall; if I hit the fuel cut on a fast slalom, I almost eat the steering wheel.

 

i just talked to my AutoX mentor guy since he drove my friend 08 tC numerous times including this sunday passed. he said it goes up to redline and feels like it cuts just the same as any car that runs out of gear at redline. i dont see where it matters so much. either shift or dont hit it lol. as a rule we were told if u bounce more than 5 times shift to the next gear.less? hold current gear. u can usually feel it.

fuel starvation seems more violent to me. but then it might just be in my head cuz im violently urging the car to start accelerating again. meh. lol

 

This is the only time I have heard of the newer models doing this. Previously people have described it just like the 05 limiter. I typically try to just stay right under it, since the upshift to 3rd and the down shift to 2nd usually cancels out any gain of going to 3rd for a short burst. The exception is if it is at the end of the course and you can just stay in third the rest of the run. But I do hit it on some courses when they make a longer, faster course. Where I am worried is next year. After two seasons of learning the car and me planning to change to ss-p's and hotchkis sways (along with corner balancing and tweaking) I will running into the limiter more on some courses. I have already hit it in a slalom before, but it was a 7 cone slalom with about 30 pace spacing, which is abnormally open for most slaloms.

I have run into the fuel starvation issue a few times.. and it really sucks. Come out of a hard, right hand sweeper.. then a few seconds later it is nothing for a couple of seconds.. .and me swearing at the car It used to happen to me only down around 1/4 tank, but this season I am running Azenis instead of all seasons when I autox, so I get more grip in the faster corners So now it happens at nearly 1/2 tank.

A baffled fuel tank would be really nice, but no one has made one for the tC that I know of. It would be nice to leave out about 40 lbs of fuel.

Overall I have learned that the tC can be more competitive than most think in sts. The older civic si's are very hard to reach (The class was practically made for them) if they are a good driver, but I am seeing myself get closer timewise, and I am on mild suspension right now.

Nice finish and pics by the way!

 

Would that be legal for us? I'm not in a position to check the rule book right now.

The 89-91 Si's are becoming more and more of a sore spot for me with the SCCA. Comparing times from Nationals in previous years, there hasn't been a single year on the website that the Si hasn't occupied damn near the top 15 spots for STS, and they even run consistently faster than the top STS2 cars. I mean this year, 23 of the 25 signed up are Si's. They're embarrassingly dominant and the, to steal a phrase, "metaphorical shot of Bailey's in the formula that just overpowers everything else."

That being said, had Scion developed a proper Spec edition for us and actually took out all the heavy bits like they should have, our car would definitely at least be a Nationals contender. My car, prepped, weighs 2997 lbs (61% front bias) with half a tank of gas and my 155lb self; that's just under the weight of a prepped VR6 Golf. Very Heavy. If someone really invested and made a full STS-spec tC, I don't doubt that it would be able to run with Integra's and RS' at all.

EDIT: Okay, I have to play the retard card. I went out to videotape my rev limiter shenanigans, and it turns out I actually do have a proper rev cut; holds right at about 6550. The problem that inspired me to look up my problem (don't believe everything you read, kids) and come to the conclusion that I had the demon rev limiter from hell was... yep, you guessed it... fuel starve (well, that, and misinformation). Every instance where I've noticed that the engine "dies" to get below redline was a situation where I could easily starve the engine. Chalk one up for doing proper research.

 

Hey, at least you know now what is going on and can correct for it

I dont know about the tank. As long as it was the same size and capacity (And weight) of the stocker, then I think they would allow it at local events for sure, but nationals you really would have to go by the letter of the law, especially if you placed high.

Nationals events sts class is nicknamed the spec civic class.. so it is no surprise they do so well. They really hit the point of everything in the class: Cheap, cheap to mod, short wheelbase and really light. But, I dont mind really. It is cool when you find yourself getting closer to them.. I consider it a stretch goal The Subie 2.5 RS's are doing very well in sts as well. Normally it is a the father and son co-driving the si, a guy with tons of experience in an older neon and a guy in a 2.5rs imprezza that take the top spots in sts up here.

But really, the cool thing about autox is the variety of cars that really surprise you. I am usually fighting for place against a guy in a Focus wagon of all things. Coilovers, a lot of suspension tuning and a good driver makes that thing do very well. Plus, believe it or not, they are about 200 lbs lighter than a tC (his is an 02 I think).

There is also a guy in an elantra with a lot of work that does pretty well. That one surprised us all. On the courses with a lot of tight slow down sections he has trouble though due to lack of power coming back out.

But the most fun is seeing how the sts times compare to a lot of others. In raw times, I have plenty of guys in evos, sti's, vettes, etc behind me.. that is what feels good, knowing that you beat the driver At our last test n tune, I let a driver of a prepped gti, the #1 or #2 driver in our club.. many times nationals in high placing, evo driver, a subie driver and a miata driver take my tC through the course, and every one of them was impressed with it. I also had a few drivers ride along with me on my runs. One of the evo guys said I actually made him nervous coming into some of the faster sections because he thought my fwd would never hold through the corner, yet it stuck like glue So it is nice to hear those things.

I also drove a 2.5rs imprezza and a gti that day.. pretty fun cars. The subie I felt pretty at home in as far as knowing where the corners were.. the gti was a different world, but a fun car to drive.

 

I don't see anything about replacing the fuel tank in the STS allowances, which means that it falls under Stock allowances... and I'm pretty sure you can't replace the fuel tank in Stock. :\

I've actually heard it nicknamed the "Andy Hollis Spec class", but that's neither here nor there. They do hit the point of everything in the class, yeah, but my point was that they end up faster than the top STS2 cars; how does that make sense? I'd love to see them move it up with the STS2 Si in the interest of fairness; they'll still be extremely competitive in STS2, and it'll free STS from being the "Spec 89-91 Civic Si class" and actually allow different cars to win Nationals every once in a while.

That's actually how it was at the Midwest Divisional; The top spots were Si's, then a Neon, then an RS. I would honestly love to have an RS; one of the people that I went to Topeka with came in his STS-prep RS as his daily driver, and we were all riding around in it, and it just seems like it would be sublime on course. RS's, in my mind, are what I'd like to see give the Si's a black eye; they're pretty competitive, except when it's wet, and then they just clean house.


I think I know of the Elantra guy, actually. The top spot in STS right now belongs to a base Sentra, so I feel your pain with the Focus wagon.

Speaking of weight, I think I'm going to take out the A/C for my tC (which is legal for our class!). God only knows how much it has to weigh, plus it's eating my money.

 

I'd love to get more serious about STS for the tC, but I'll be honest, I'm not going to have this car for another 2 full years.

I've got an itchin for a stock class. A-stock S2000? B-stock RX8? That sorta thing.

The tC's a great car, but I'd like an actual sports car. Something to reward myself for attaining the "M.D.".

 

I am not sure removing AC is ok for sts (illegal weight reduction ?) since you cant buy the car sans ac to begin with. I will have to look that one up. But, it is my daily driver, so I dont want to remove it.

One thing to keep in mind is that other classes are not necessarily slower or faster, just different. But yes, it would be interesting to run without the si to see how things rounded out.

The elantra guy just runs locally here, so I am not sure that you know him, unless you know some people in MN. He was 2 places behind me at the last event, but time wise he was doing pretty good.

 

14.1 AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS - STS
A. All Solo Rules Stock Category allowances, plus all allowances contained in 14.1 through 14.10.
B. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part. This rule should not be interpreted to allow modification of the heater system.

Well, in the case of STS and STS2, STS2 is restricted to two-seater cars with 1.9L or less. That's the only difference. Following that, I can see why they wouldn't class the STS Si in STS2, but logic would dictate that STS2 cars should be faster than STS cars, right?

He posts on SCCAForums.com.

 

Jarod? He is a really cool guy, we always chat during events. Tell him Dave says hello. We like to give the focus guy (also a cool guy) a hard time every now and then about his Euro style mods

He and I have gone back and forth some this season place wise. As mentioned, the little Elantra that Could has surprised a few people! I think with his mods, if it had more power he would be even harder to beat. He is a good driver, which really is what makes it for most cars.

Thats the cool thing about sts.. wide variety of cars in it, and with good drivers, the class is very competitive. We see a time spread of .5 seconds from 3rd to 8th place sometimes at our events. Usually after 8th or so it starts spreading way out.

 

I completely understand that it's simply different... thing is.. it's personal preference.

Having modified and raced with 3 different cars, all STS, I think I'd rather spend the money upfront to get an actual sports car. Part of it is ease-of-use, part is the image and "aura" of an actual sports car, part is simplicity, part is being actually faster. I also want to be able to use Hoosiers.

With that being said, there are some stock "sports cars" that I currently run better raw times than... but that's a moot point. This is about drivers, more than the cars. I just think it'd be a lot cooler to own an RX8 / S2000 / STi / etc. than a scion tc.

 

Get an S2000, if that's in your list of cars. Hands down it's more fun than an RX-8 or an STi.

So does anyone run in H Stock with a tC? I mean, we all run in STS, but I haven't heard anyone chiming in about how a stock tC runs on R-Comps, and I'm quite curious, since I'd love to run HS if I didn't absolutely loathe the stock shifter.

 

I dont know anyone running it, but I know that some are interested in how it would do. Pat Washburn (if you post on the scca forums you probably know of him) took mine for a run during our last test n tune. He had said before that he thought it should be a good h stock car. He was happy with the way it rotated and handled. However, mine isnt stock, so it really isnt a good measure.

Pat is one hell of a driver.. but I guess doing it for about 20 years and hitting nationals each year does that He co-drives an Evo currently.

 

hello autoxers....

where is the best place to buy the progress rear sway?

thanks and also some input on my autox build please.

1. Pregress rear sway
2. dezod front end link replacement (keeping stock sway)
3. dc sport strut bar maybe DME? which you think? (more for looks as its impact will be minimul)
4. grippy tires (i spin 3rd gear... blah)
4. already have h techs and was thinking some struts instead of coiloevers.

so

should i go coil over or sturt/spring combo?

if so which combo is best?

if coilovers which is best?

thanks for your help and if you know where i can get the best deal on the items you recommend please include thanks!

java

 

TRD Sparks probably has the best deal on the bar.

You dont need new endlinks on the front unless yours are broken. Even with the progress or trd rear bar you dont need them. Stocks will be just fine.

I recommend Bridgestone RE-01Rs for the tires if you really want to spend a bit more, but the Falken Azenis are probably the next best, more affordable and what most are still using. I keep a spare set of stock rims with Azenis on them just for autox. Even then I will replace them every season.

For suspension, you really dont want to drop more than about 1.4 inches stock if you want the best suspension geometry.. H techs are a bit low, and the rates are way too low for the drop. TRDs have higher rates in the back than the h techs and the trds arent as low.. and if I could change anything, I wish the trds had higher rates.

For coilovers, probably the best setup right now is the Tein SS-p's. I am sure you can have something made by a high end company if you want to spend a few thousand more If you get coilovers, be sure you are going to utilize them by tuning the suspension. If not, the cost of them is not warranted. By tuning, I mean have the allignment guy corner balance it, set the optimum ride height (dropped about 1.4 inches from stock) and get the damping set the way it works best for you through trial and error.

And dont under estimate the effects of alignment. Simply setting my front camber to -1.75 made a big difference for me.

 

sweet! thanks too!

 

Given my open and vehement discontent with the STS class in certain areas, my desire to break free of the rather limiting bonds of said class, the possibility of competing in some hot Time Attack action, and that a few fellow St. Louis drivers are defecting over to SM... I think I might join them next season. As crazy as that sounds coming out of my budget-zealous mouth, I think I would enjoy putting the tC into the Spend Money class.

Limited Slip. TRD Super, 12psi with bonkers tune and water/meth. Limited Slip. Big ol' Hoosiers or Kumho's. Limited Slip. Small automotive loan. Gutted interior. Roll cage. You know, that sort of thing.

I'd like to get up to about 240-250hp, because I figure with my suspension setup that's about to go onto the car, and the R-comps and the limited slip that would go on, that's about the limit before I'll start to experience understeering woes again (unless someone more informed has a better opinion).

I'm in love with the variety of SM cars at all levels, from regional to national. I'm enamored with some of the things people do to their cars, and I want to be a part of that. I can only fiddle with my suspension so much before I just want to make a big industrial racket coming down a straight and smoke out an entire corner full of workers in a spectacular spin every once in a while. I thought a FWD car would have no chance of ever being competitive past STS, but there are a surprising number of cars that are, especially the SM Mini that shows up to our local events; I want to keep up with that more than I want to keep up with some rusted-out '89 Si that just brings out an ugly, jealous, competitive streak in me.

I figure if I'm gonna be a mediocre tC autocrosser, I'm gonna be a mediocre autocrosser in an ___-kicking tC. :D

 

actually getting MORE power in a FWD car makes it easier to understeer. u can tune a more neutral and forgiving suspension on a more neutral car. i've found that its much easier to fether the pedal and regain FWD traction on a lower hp car then a higher hp car. plus at high hp theres soooo much more going on so much faster. figuring which wheel is slipping, how much gas will spin this one while trying not to gas so much that u spin the ones u need. however with that last remark im thinking about when i was autoxing a friends STi. i'd say get ur suspension how u like it now. when u turbo, go up in increments on the power as u autoX OR keep 2 tunes. one for low boost at maybe 6psi and ur straight line high boost tune. when i was turbo'd 6 psi was a dream but i was on a 16G which is a very small turbo and at 2500 i had full boost so the tires had more of a chance to deal with the load on them versus a car that lags on a larger turbo then KICKS at 3400rpms and snaps the rubber free on the drive wheels. im not sure if thats completely what u were asking and sorry if im rambling bout sumthing u already know =)

btw if u wanna get GOOD at autoX, race on a NON-preped tC. a race prepped car will cover up all your driver mistakes and u'll build a false confidence that will keep u from peaking as a driver. i say this from experience. when i was on STOCK tires i thought they sucked. i upgraded to marginal tires. then became a better DRIVER. got BETTER tires and perfected a few things. tehn went back to stocks and realized they werent as bad as i thought. i was just a mediocre driver then lol. driving a full season on stock tires made me a much better driver. now im thinking about moving to R-comps next year. i think i will have matured enuf as a driver coming into my 4th year autox'ing regularly that it wont cover up as many mistakes to be on such nice rubber.

just my .02

 

Well, what I meant with the comment you're talking about was that with R-comps and an LSD, I'm going to be understeering much, much, much less than a stock tC on street tires. I will point it and it will go. With some cursory (and damn near unscientific) figuring, I've found that I could probably put a 240-250hp load on all the extra bits before I start to experience some really bad understeer again.

Your last part is exactly why I won't explore a turbo route, because I don't even want to deal with a slight amount of turbo lag.

My first priority is not to be GOOD at autocrossing. My first priority is to legally make my insides mush via an automobile. Becoming a good autocross driver is a close second, and I'm always mindful about making myself a better one, but it isn't why I'm doing this. Trust me, SM competition is by no means soft, either. If anything, you have more variables with the increased variety of the field. Unfortunately, most of those variables turn into dollar signs, but it still adds variety to the class that you just can't get in STS.

And don't think that STS is a pure driver's class, either...