Install Ingalls Damper
02-09-2007, 03:36 AM
#423
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 658
idk what to do it's really ____ing me off like i could understand if the tc wasn't my daily driver but it is...idk what to do i tried wrapping it in dynamat helped for like a second then i noticed when u apply pressure it stops it....so i strapped on three tie wraps real tight but then that didn't help...
02-09-2007, 03:57 AM
#425
you need to read the adjustment instructions. if you just slapped it on it is not the right length. note, that this is not the same as the 'preload' of 14mm. the instructions could be clearer.
the overall length of the unit (between each eyehole in the heim joints) must be exactly the same as the distance between the two boltholes in the strut and engine brackets...thats with the ball joints lying straight. you probably just made it fit by moving the balljoint until your bolts were able to line up. that would be incorrect.
it does not come adjusted exactly for the tC length when you buy it. mine was off by a bit more than 1/4" inch direct from factory.
that would account for a lot of your noise. after that you will still have some residual based upon the cold weather and the sound harmonics being transferred to the cabin.
the overall length of the unit (between each eyehole in the heim joints) must be exactly the same as the distance between the two boltholes in the strut and engine brackets...thats with the ball joints lying straight. you probably just made it fit by moving the balljoint until your bolts were able to line up. that would be incorrect.
it does not come adjusted exactly for the tC length when you buy it. mine was off by a bit more than 1/4" inch direct from factory.
that would account for a lot of your noise. after that you will still have some residual based upon the cold weather and the sound harmonics being transferred to the cabin.
02-09-2007, 12:54 PM
#428
no, the loosening/tightening is the adjustment of the plunger from 10mm-15mm...but that is just how stiff you want the stiffy to be. no pun intended.
that is controlled with the large nuts closest to the plunger unit..when looking at the stiffy the heim joint that goes to the strut..then you have a small lock nut, and then two larger nuts...the two large nuts there are for the millimeter adjustment.
anyway, you then need to slightly loosen the small nut. that will then allow you to adjust the length of the heim joint going to the strut..it is the one with the exposed threads. so by going counter or clockwise..adjust that until the eyeholes of the heim joints line up EXACTLY to the eyeholes on the brackets you installed..without any ball movement.
once you have that set, tighten the small lock nut to hold it in place...no more than 35 ft/lb i think.
along with measuring..what you can do is LIGHTLY bolt 1 end to the strut bracket and then do the lengthen/shorten procedure until you can pass your other bolt through the engine mount bracket without any movement. Ensure that as you twist the plunger, the eyehole on the strut brace is still perpendicular and not moving. THEN REMOVE THE STIFFY! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TIGHTEN IT WITH THE DAMPER INSTALLED. You may overtorque it (since it is being held in place) or you may loosen one of the other large nuts, which is your preload. both not good..and with one part held in place by the strut (your make shift vise) even with your hand you could easily do either of those.
so remove it...then tighten your small lock nut. Then reinstall.
The instructions really aren't that good to explain this well..if you read them 4 times, you will get it on the fourth reading. anyway i was able to install without any of the rattling some people here experience with careful measuring and using a caliper. i still have some engine harmonics which is due to a piece of metal carrying vibration from the engine to the pass cabine..that is the "racey" sound some others talk about.
although i have a theory on clearing that up as well and have some tests to perform in the next few days...just waiting on the parts.
that is controlled with the large nuts closest to the plunger unit..when looking at the stiffy the heim joint that goes to the strut..then you have a small lock nut, and then two larger nuts...the two large nuts there are for the millimeter adjustment.
anyway, you then need to slightly loosen the small nut. that will then allow you to adjust the length of the heim joint going to the strut..it is the one with the exposed threads. so by going counter or clockwise..adjust that until the eyeholes of the heim joints line up EXACTLY to the eyeholes on the brackets you installed..without any ball movement.
once you have that set, tighten the small lock nut to hold it in place...no more than 35 ft/lb i think.
along with measuring..what you can do is LIGHTLY bolt 1 end to the strut bracket and then do the lengthen/shorten procedure until you can pass your other bolt through the engine mount bracket without any movement. Ensure that as you twist the plunger, the eyehole on the strut brace is still perpendicular and not moving. THEN REMOVE THE STIFFY! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TIGHTEN IT WITH THE DAMPER INSTALLED. You may overtorque it (since it is being held in place) or you may loosen one of the other large nuts, which is your preload. both not good..and with one part held in place by the strut (your make shift vise) even with your hand you could easily do either of those.
so remove it...then tighten your small lock nut. Then reinstall.
The instructions really aren't that good to explain this well..if you read them 4 times, you will get it on the fourth reading. anyway i was able to install without any of the rattling some people here experience with careful measuring and using a caliper. i still have some engine harmonics which is due to a piece of metal carrying vibration from the engine to the pass cabine..that is the "racey" sound some others talk about.
although i have a theory on clearing that up as well and have some tests to perform in the next few days...just waiting on the parts.
02-09-2007, 05:23 PM
#429
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 658
i can deal with the sound harmonics like if it makes sounds once in a while say at start up thats cool but i cant even be at idle b/c it won't stop would i be able to see the parts you are talking about in the previous pics?
02-09-2007, 09:00 PM
#430
try this link:
http://ingallseng.com/graphics/Web%2...0breakdown.pdf
from left to right, you are looking to loosen the smallest nut on the left called the "heim joint locking jam nut"..then the threaded heim joint will be able to screw in or out as you adjust it.
http://ingallseng.com/graphics/Web%2...0breakdown.pdf
from left to right, you are looking to loosen the smallest nut on the left called the "heim joint locking jam nut"..then the threaded heim joint will be able to screw in or out as you adjust it.
02-10-2007, 01:06 AM
#431
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 2,434
yea you will still have slight cabin noise even if it's adjusted right but not a lot.
when it's cold, like below freezing you will hear a cracking, or popping noise. this is normal and will cause no harm apparently.
use 3-4 layers or dynamat or similar dampening material on the strut tower under the bracket for the stiffy. this will also help. the unit also has sort of a break in time. it will get a bit quitter after a couple days or using it.
the length is real important though so make it the right length. the factory length could be off quite a bit, so measure.
hope this all helps. i've had mine for a few months now and the only thing i don't like about it is the popping noises it makes when it's cold outside.
when it's cold, like below freezing you will hear a cracking, or popping noise. this is normal and will cause no harm apparently.
use 3-4 layers or dynamat or similar dampening material on the strut tower under the bracket for the stiffy. this will also help. the unit also has sort of a break in time. it will get a bit quitter after a couple days or using it.
the length is real important though so make it the right length. the factory length could be off quite a bit, so measure.
hope this all helps. i've had mine for a few months now and the only thing i don't like about it is the popping noises it makes when it's cold outside.
02-10-2007, 02:23 AM
#432
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 658
alright i think i got it...first off you would think since my pops is a mechanic he would like to help me with my car more often huh?
well that ain't the case but he did help me with this because i told him it was making noise so him a friend of mine and me decided to prep for surgery we figure out that it wasn't that main cylinder that was making the noise is was the ending joint that has the ball bearing inside of it
the bearing wouldn't move but the joint around it would so i dynamatted the poop out of the bracket that connects to the strut tower about two layers on top and bottom then replaced ingalls bolt with a longer one to allow the room added two polyurethane washers and that dropped the noise about 90%...
then it kept doing the noise slightly this was becuase of the ball joints still having some slight slack since the dynamat got squished ...
i then went to my trusty tie wrap idea because i love those damn things and i tie wrapped that ending space of the heim joint to the bracket that mounts to the motor mount and no more noise...when sitting in the cabin you can tell that there is something stressing a little bit but nothing crazy and no more noise!!!!
i hope that this isn't good for the stiffy but everything seems to be ok thanks for everyones help and hope this helps anyone else
well that ain't the case but he did help me with this because i told him it was making noise so him a friend of mine and me decided to prep for surgery we figure out that it wasn't that main cylinder that was making the noise is was the ending joint that has the ball bearing inside of it
the bearing wouldn't move but the joint around it would so i dynamatted the poop out of the bracket that connects to the strut tower about two layers on top and bottom then replaced ingalls bolt with a longer one to allow the room added two polyurethane washers and that dropped the noise about 90%...
then it kept doing the noise slightly this was becuase of the ball joints still having some slight slack since the dynamat got squished ...
i then went to my trusty tie wrap idea because i love those damn things and i tie wrapped that ending space of the heim joint to the bracket that mounts to the motor mount and no more noise...when sitting in the cabin you can tell that there is something stressing a little bit but nothing crazy and no more noise!!!!
i hope that this isn't good for the stiffy but everything seems to be ok thanks for everyones help and hope this helps anyone else
02-10-2007, 07:30 PM
#435
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 658
I'm pretty sure that there poly umm they only cost me like 20 cents a piece but the only thing is when u compress them they mold into that shape and get messed up...if u layer them w/ dynamat as well u should be alright
02-12-2007, 05:03 PM
#436
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 11
IcetC, I haven't heard of a heim being that noisy out of the packaging yet, but I guess there is a first for everything. If you are getting a lot of noise from the ball bearing/ending joint (refered to as Heim joint for the rest of this post) I'm rather concerned. If you can isolate the bearing from the race (via a rubber 14mm gromet) and the noise goes away then it could be the heim joint's race being out of specification. I'm even more concerned by the idea that this is such a large problem that you want to sell your ETD.
Like I've mentioned before I work for Ingalls as the Customer Service rep for all things ETD.
Shoot me an email (DanJ@IngallsEng.com) or a call and we can figure out a fix for your ETD so you can actually see the benefits of having it. I apologize this has been such a big headache for you.
Dan
Like I've mentioned before I work for Ingalls as the Customer Service rep for all things ETD.
Shoot me an email (DanJ@IngallsEng.com) or a call and we can figure out a fix for your ETD so you can actually see the benefits of having it. I apologize this has been such a big headache for you.
Dan
02-12-2007, 05:08 PM
#437
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 658
hey thanks i appreciate the help but i'm not sure if it is for me i really don't race my car much and i was satisfied by the way it performed without the stiffy i must admit though it is a great product it sort of "brings everything together" but i feel that i want some more suspension work than that i want better handling so i'm springing for sway bars and lowering springs i want overall ride quality to be better if i do make any decisions i will definetly consider your e-mail thank you though for being so helpful
02-12-2007, 05:46 PM
#438
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 11
No biggie, the sway bars and springs are going to definitely help handling. Be careful though, if noises in the car and creaks, pops, clicks, etc. annoy you on your daily commute then you need to look for rubber (not urethane or spherical ball) sway bar end links and a spring that doesn't lower the car very far and has a generous spring rate. Something like Tein S-Techs are going to be rather low and hard compared to OE ride as will Tanabe GF210s. I'd look into an Eibach Sportline or Vogtland Street spring set, neither will be to sporty, but will improve general handling.
Sadly in the aftermarket industry the saying goes you can have a luxury car or you can have a sports car, but you can't have both in the same car. I think our product fits that bill perfectly (the ETD at least), it does make the car respond to inputs better and helps eliminate wheel hop, but vibration and noise come with the territory.
Good luck with the tC though, I love the chassis and know the potential.
Dan
Sadly in the aftermarket industry the saying goes you can have a luxury car or you can have a sports car, but you can't have both in the same car. I think our product fits that bill perfectly (the ETD at least), it does make the car respond to inputs better and helps eliminate wheel hop, but vibration and noise come with the territory.
Good luck with the tC though, I love the chassis and know the potential.
Dan
02-13-2007, 05:51 AM
#439
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Tcguy85
Originally Posted by tcracing
hmmm i just took a look at it again and i notice that the top plate bracket is bended upwards so thats what that angle is. is there any other strut bar that you know of that will fit for sure?
so the dc-sport one fits perfectly fine.