Does anyone else get ridiculous amounts of wheel hop sometimes when you launch and am I damaging anything when it happens? Do lowering springs help this at all, if I were to go with TRD shocks springs and sway bars would this eliviate the horrible wheel hop that I get sometimes?

 

its basically bad tires. the stock re92s (most likely what you have) have bad grip. lowering does help a little but thats mainly keeping the front planted a little bit more.

 

Yeah, I get some bad hop sometimes when shifting hard between gears or with a hard launch. Not on stock tires anymore either - Have 19" Nittos. Ive heard an engine damper will help some...

 

I have had issues with wheel hop but then I played with the rmps that I was launching at. What RPM are you taking off at. If its higher that like 2k i'd say thats yoru problem. You will get a better start without really spinning the tires the whole way doing it that way. I'm not an expert but that just my experience.

 

Might wanna try the Phatom Grip LSD... phatomgrip.com...$300

 

this is the link for the one for the tc http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_l...hp?make=Toyota but what is the spring upgrade they say you need? and why dont you need it if you get the lsd for a turbo kit?

 

The Phantom grip is a piece of crap. I doesn't work well, will wear out relatively quickly and then you'll have to remove it or replace it (unless it disintegrates and takes your tranny with it.) A Quaife LSD is definitely worth the premium over the Phantom Grip.

 

There are really two factors to a better launch with the stock tC

1) driver skill
2) tires

If you are using the stock 17's I would highly recommend you upgrade them to a stickier tire. If you are concerned about rain as well, there are several all-seasons that are better than the potenzas we get. If you want pure performance than I usually recommend yoko's (AVS ES100's or Parada Spec-2's) But if you don't mine paying a lot more for the tires BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 is an awesome dry-traction tire as is Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position

As a personal opinion, the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 is the best tire in the stock size. But others may consider differently.

 

Wow, I see Quaife's LSDs are about 3-4 times more costly than Phantom's. I couldn't find an application for Scions though. Find any?

 

under toyota the link is listed above...

 

Sorry, I meant for Quaife LSDs

 

I don't believe they have one yet. I haven't heard if they're working on one for the tC/Camry transmissions, but I hope thay are. I already have problems with wheelspin with my stock motor, so I can't imagine what it will be like with a supercharger (I'm sure better tires would help too.)

The difference in price is justified. The Quaife will actually work and last as long as the car. The Phantom Grip won't. Unfortunately, an attractive price makes the "wrong way" of doing things more attractive to some people. Look at all the "intake sensor mods", "electric superchargers", cheap coilover "kits" (Ground Control is the only one that should only be considered, and even then real coilovers are far superior,) and many other things sold on eBay and elsewhere. There are always better ways to do these things, the "right way", but they're more expensive and take more time.

 

I emailed Quaife about producing an LSD for the tC. they responded saying they most likely will...supposedly its very similar to the LSD they make for the MR2. just keep checking their site or even better email em so they see there is interest.

 

Jason,
I would like to ask where you have obtained your information about the Phantom Grip being a bad product. From your own experience, from somebody you know personaly or somebody well known that is unbiased in their apraisal of gear(meaning no fincial ties to other manf, etc)?

The reason I ask it this, I have personal exeperience with running one in very fast turbo Matrix, it worked exceptionally well and still does in the second car the tranny has been in. John and Janice at PG made a unit for me when nobody else had anthing to sell and did it for a great price and quickly. Later when I added more boost and race tires they took care of it and the shpping across the country free of charge and fast again, less that a week turn around.

I ran a bunch of drag races and hundreds of autocross runs with 250whp and 230+ ft lbs of torque with 235/40/17 V700 R compound tires and was one of the fastest SM class cars in So Cal, always finishing in the top three out of 15 to 20 cars and against M3's and WRX's with many mods on them. I only drove the car to events and raced it then back to the garage, rarely any other time, 10k miles or so, worked flawlessly.

There is a pack of road race Mini's out east running the units, never heard of a failure there as well.

Sometimes I think rumors get started by those with a vested interest in bashing somebodies products. I have asked a few others these questions and not one has ever validated it with anything more than hearsay.

Not saying there have not been problems, all products can have a problem here and there, just saying I would like to know just how valid your info is. I can use that to access my decission to install one in my tC that will be boosted and to help guide others as well.

I have an interest in standing up for them, they have taken good care of me, they are true enthusiasts and to me have an excellent low cost way to acheive a major performance improvement .


I am not dissing you buddy, just asking for some backup to your statement since you are so adamantley against them.

Rick

 

Wheel Hop, Generally caused by your motor mounts, not tires, not lauch RPM, not a lack of LSD. Your engine twists on the mounts quite a great deal, then the tires let go, this repeats over and over until you are going fast enough to get real trackion, etc. It is hard on your car and not much fun.

I have tried every trick in the book to cure it, including some rather expensive machine work to make different torque braces, none of which work with much power. (I suppose a proper one in the right location with the right shock valving would help a great dea but it would rob some power doing so)

I had to make my own front and rear motor mounts on the Matrix because none were available when I built my car which I purchased on Valentines day 2002 and had it in a turbo shop the next day.

I am going to do so on the tC as well now, talked to Energy Suspensions today, not makeing us anything for now.

My fist batch for the Matrix I used a very stiff 2 part eurathane, durometer of around 98, way to stiff. I cut out most of the rubber and cast in the compound. Even the visors would resonate like crazy at idle, lol! I cut some out and drilled a bunch of holes in them and welded back the bosses for all the counter weights I had removed, then it was actaully fairly smooth and quiet but totally eliminated wheel hop.

I will cast some for the tC out of around a 70 compount and not cut out any rubber, will post how it goes when done. Best to just to the front and rear mounts but either one will help a bit, the rear the best, doing both will really work the best.

(I do not pretend to know it all, far from that, I just know what I have done and how to find out what I need to know for what I am about to do, plenty of real hands on experts around that love to help us out.

Bt the way, the first car I ever lowered was my 1972 Datsun 510, back in 1972;)


Rick

 

raamaudio, I have no financial or other interest in Phantom Grip nor Quaife. I'm basing my observations on others using the Phantom Grip product on Mazda MX-3s and Proteges, and Quaife LSDs on Proteges. It's been a while since I investigated the Phantom Grip, but I recall reading quite a really comprehensive write-up about the PG in an MX-3 a while ago. I can't find the article now, but it was by a respected member of the MX-3 community, and he pointed out a number of flaws in the design. Off the top of my head I recall that the part had to be modified to fit (even though it was the correct part for the application,) the springs were not strong enough to give a substantial locking effect, and the body of the PG started to show wear in a short period of time under autocross and street use.

I'm glad you had good experiences with the Phantom Grip, and I hope somebody tries it in a tC with good results. I would still be inclined to wait for a Quaife or other aftermarket "real"LSD and be willing to pay the premium for it.

(And I didn't mean to come off quite as harsh as I might have sounded, I'm just tired of people doing things half-assed then complaining about it later.)

 

Jason,
Thanks for being cool with your response, I really did not mean to sound hostil, just asking as have seen things get out of hand rumor wise in the past.

As I read this is seem it was one example and he had to mod it to fit, should of gone back to PG to have it taken care of first, maybe that is part of the wear problem, just speculating here of course.

As for the springs, they have more than one set, originally my car was not going to be raced, they built one for the street for me and it worked just fine. Once I started racing on R compound tires and ran more boost, it would not hold, not the units fault. I sent the differential back, they upgraded and inspected it all, then it worked exceptionally well, had to or else the car would never of been so fast on an autocross course.

I removed it one more time as my tranny had a tough life and wanted to check it out, looked just like the day I put it in and it had been abused since day one.

My personal experience has been nothing short of phenominal with the product and the company.

We installed a gear driven LSD into our Tacoma last December, needed it for a long trip over some rugger passes and I could get the unit right away. PG did not make one but were willing to do if I sent the diff to them. I would of done so and saved a couple of hundred bucks but just did not have the time to wait, even if only for a week.

Still, I am not saying they make a 100% perfect product but think about this, so far you are quoting one person that had a problem after modifying a unit to fit. I would like to know if others had a problem or just repeating what he said about his experience.

I really want to know, my experieinces are all good, only heard of a couple of problems we could identify as questionable and that is all in the negative realm. If there are truely more documented cases then we should all know about it.

By the way, I was trying to get a Quaiffe but the intial run was sold out and I could not wait, PG was the only company I could get anything from and they went out of their way to help me out;)

So far, we still plan on running the PG in our to be very very fast tC.

Thanks,
Rick