tC vs Si & GTi
11-13-2011, 12:40 PM
#22
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North NJ
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I KNEW someone would look at that single line and find a starting point to undermine my entire argument. I looked at it 10 times and could not think of a better way to word it... My point was, anyone who knows even the slightest about cars is going to know that's a V6 and not a "real" muscle car, including the driver. A guy I work with bought a V6 Camaro and he hates it; not because it doesn’t perform like he thought it would, but because in the back of his mind, he may as well be driving an Accord or Camary. And if you’re going to buy that type of car "for performance and not to show off to people" I’m sure millions would agree with me when I say: pay the extra money for the motor that truly performs. Just keep your tail end waxed and clean, in the off chance you want to show off.
Muscle cars don't need a v8; case in point:Buick Grand National GNX.
11-13-2011, 02:17 PM
#23
Sure, V-6's can make power. Now a days they are the size of the old v-8's, but I have to agree with Druidiron.....Its no muscle car. I did look at the v-6 mustang because of the price for that strong v-6, it is a good deal but I personally would have felt like a poser! Its more like a "cardio" car then a "muscle" car.
11-13-2011, 08:44 PM
#24
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The mustang has never been a muscle car... it's always been a Pony-Car. The closest thing to a muscle car these days would seem to be the Charger.
I make no pretense that the tC is remotely quick... Toyota tried to play it as a sport-compact, but in reality, it's a much less expensive alternative (with similar amenities) to a 4-banger Accord or Altima coupe. Wrong wheel drive, engine tuned like a Camry, the rear seat of a midsized car (more spacious than the aforementinoed midsize coupes, actually), good but conservative handling characteristics, and comfort over sportiness. I was looking at off-lease Accords at the time (dad has one, and I really like his), but finding one with a stick and a 4-cyl is pretty tricky.
I make no pretense that the tC is remotely quick... Toyota tried to play it as a sport-compact, but in reality, it's a much less expensive alternative (with similar amenities) to a 4-banger Accord or Altima coupe. Wrong wheel drive, engine tuned like a Camry, the rear seat of a midsized car (more spacious than the aforementinoed midsize coupes, actually), good but conservative handling characteristics, and comfort over sportiness. I was looking at off-lease Accords at the time (dad has one, and I really like his), but finding one with a stick and a 4-cyl is pretty tricky.
11-13-2011, 09:22 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North NJ
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Sure, V-6's can make power. Now a days they are the size of the old v-8's, but I have to agree with Druidiron.....Its no muscle car. I did look at the v-6 mustang because of the price for that strong v-6, it is a good deal but I personally would have felt like a poser! Its more like a "cardio" car then a "muscle" car.
And engine displacement per cylinder now is approximately the same as it was for the last 40 years. They are way more powerful because of higher machining tolerances, higher compression, overhead cams, and EFI.
11-13-2011, 10:41 PM
#26
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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For me personally it's not about having a muscle car or not feeling like a poser. I want a car that puts a smile on my face when I drive it. My tC does so by having good grip in turns, the mustang does it with 300hp turning the proper wheels, and small cars do it by feeling almost like motorcycles. Do I don't care if it's a v6 or a v8 or a 100 hp 4 banger if it can be great at the track(well, autox for the mazda2).
And engine displacement per cylinder now is approximately the same as it was for the last 40 years. They are way more powerful because of higher machining tolerances, higher compression, overhead cams, and EFI.
And engine displacement per cylinder now is approximately the same as it was for the last 40 years. They are way more powerful because of higher machining tolerances, higher compression, overhead cams, and EFI.
Mustang:
Skid pad
(200-ft. diameter)
lateral g
V6 Premium: 0.93
GT Premium: 0.93
Boss 302: 0.98
Shelby GT500: 0.99
Slalom, 6x100 ft. (mph) 67.3 70.3 72.0 70.1
V6 Premium: 67.3
GT Premium: 70.3
Boss 302: 72.0
Shelby GT500: 70.1
Scion tC:
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 64.4
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 63.6
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.84
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.86
Accord SE:
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 62.4
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 61.3
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.78
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.76
So, yeah, the tC nicely splits the difference between a sports car and a family sedan... which, incidentally, is a good middle ground in my opinion!
I'd say the Mustang would put a smile on your face with it's superior lateral grip. And proper-wheel-wheel drive.
11-16-2011, 09:47 AM
#28
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 592
I KNEW someone would look at that single line and find a starting point to undermine my entire argument. I looked at it 10 times and could not think of a better way to word it... My point was, anyone who knows even the slightest about cars is going to know that's a V6 and not a "real" muscle car, including the driver. A guy I work with bought a V6 Camaro and he hates it; not because it doesn’t perform like he thought it would, but because in the back of his mind, he may as well be driving an Accord or Camary. And if you’re going to buy that type of car "for performance and not to show off to people" I’m sure millions would agree with me when I say: pay the extra money for the motor that truly performs. Just keep your tail end waxed and clean, in the off chance you want to show off.
11-16-2011, 09:29 PM
#29
Thought the tC2 would do this, but damnned if it got bad quick. No smile = no fun. Heck I still have fun with the xB1, can't corner for spit (banned from SCCA lol) but it felt peppy and fun. ofc now that I have OEM FI in the VW, omfg I couldn't go back to the tC or any Scion unless there was a turbo in it & matching torque! 4dr sedan with loads of luxury, drop it to sport mode and tear *ss up the road? beauty. Smiles and Smiles.
Mustangs? Sure, probably fun, hate the feel of the new ones and spoiled by having owned a '65 convertible
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