yes and no. if it's a different size before and after the maf it's normally ok. it needs to be about teh same size at maf.

 

port and polish the 1nz head? 1nz is using timing chain right? bet it'll be more powerful to add highlift cams for the 1nz.....twiddler......you're a GOD!!!......cant wait to see when your engine is fully done......and post pics

 

since the engine is VVT-i its pretty hard to make a cam thats high lift due to it constantly adjusting cam timing...

 

GOOD INFO HERE!!

now we getting somewhere...
soon xb's will be hitting 13's..... yeah baby yeah!!

 

just gotta remove the VVT-i
follow the 4AGE's from Toyota Atlantic
lighten everything and hope for a high rpm monster

 

ha the 15 degree offset crank doesnt bode too well for high rpm or high load. bye bye wrist pin.

 

Twidler ...
Why not go further with your engine work and run higher compression pistons to maybe 11.5:1 compression, 5angle valve job ( only for n/a), 1mm over size valves, Port and polish the head, Individual throttle bodies with custom air box, knife edge the crank, balance and blue print the whole rotating assembly...

NOTE!!!
The 1zz-fe valves are are exactly 1.5mm over size compared to the 1nz-fe... The valve stems I heard was a little longer, why not have a machine shop; machine down the 1zz-fe valves stems to 1nz-fe spec ...

Now if your interested in doing a inidividual throttles, I know a shop that will custom fab a adapter plate for the 20valve throttle bodies to bolt up too the 1nz-fe ...

I've been dreaming of building a 1nz-fe like this but I would have to run a reprogrammable C-ONE ecu for my echo... The problem with this on your end is the ecu is not compatible to your car, because of the traction control. The main difference been echo ecu (16bit) vs XB/XA (64bit)...

Maybe next year after I'm done with my drag car project I'll build this motor...

 

damn with that valve setup this motor would humm. hmmmmm

 

.......do not underestimate the power of n.a!!!

it'll be ok to rename twiddler's car the Scion type [iR].....

so where iz twiddler btw....?[/i]

 

.......do not underestimate the power of n.a!!!

it'll be ok to rename twiddler's car the Scion xb Type [iR].....

so where iz twiddler btw....?[/i]

 

Any updates?

 

Updates!
I don't have any great updates but here is what's in the works. The extrude honing was supposed to take three weeks and it looks like it has taken more like six. The parts will be ready tomorrow at 3pm, but I don't feel like sitting in california grid lock at the peak of rush hour, so I'll be picking the parts up on Thursday am. I thought the parts might take longer since they weren't sure what they were gonna do with the intake manifold and there was a good chance of destoying it. I guess they didn't break it. lol. I'll take pictures on thursday and upload some.

I need to get with Tom at Westech next and plan an install weekend...this weekend is too busy but perhaps the 30th and 31st. I need to check with Tom to see if he is available. He is also working on the AF box that we want to try. He is testing one on his Tiburon and also testing one on mine. I'm not sure if we will find much power with it or not...can't hurt making the fuel curve better.

I did get the two factory Scion Manuals...they are massive. I haven't looked at them yet but the few pages I glanced at were well laid out and easy to read. Should be a great guide to have.

Side Notes
I'm running the Tanabe coil-overs and am wondering if anyone has tried these or the tien etc? I find the tanabe's to have a great ride feel, but the mechanism to adjust the rear height is difficult to use. I've never tried a different scion coil over so I don't have anything to comare it to. Just was wondering if anyone else was running this set up. I see the tien's use a more classic dual wrench adjustment like the front.

Here is a tip for installing air intakes...especially the extra long race ones...the injen instructions all say to remove the inner bumper guard or to remove the front bumper to gain access...I find that to be a complete pain in the ___...it's 100 times easier just to remove the battery and work the unit into place. If I was ever going to change the element, I would do the same thing...pop the ballery and pull the unit that way.

I did install the longer race injen a few weeks ago and it "feels" slower than the shorter unit. Feel and reality are two different things so I need to see the numbers on the dyno. One thing I did notice on the two installs...it the pipe from the crank case vent...on the short injen...they give you that plastic 3" tube with two females on the end and inside is some foam. I am not sure if this is a filter or what but I put this to my lips and smoked on it a bit and it was really hard to suck air through. On the longer injen, they don't use this part...could this small part be making a difference since the one semi blocks the air? Probably doesn't make any difference at all but I thought it was odd that it came with one unit and not the other.

slipknot490 wrote
I may be wrong but it is not any more restrictive with the amount of bends in it than the others on the market. Twiddler, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm here to learn too.

I basically agree. A straight tube flows better than a curved tube, but the curves are so good on these intakes that I don't think it would add up to any measureable amount....I'd say 1/10th of 1%. I've tested a lot of headers on the dyno and ugly tubes with a lot of bends seem to flow as well as some smoother tubes. Air seems to adapt well to curves...better than I would of imagined untill and I saw it with a lot of header testing on small block engines.

TOASTR wrote
Probably my biggest issue with this little engine is the fact that it seems so sluggish in the lower RPM band (below 3500).

Try the magnaflow cat back. You really feel the power sooner with it and a cold air intake. My friend Scott and I installed this setup on my Xb first and it was noticeably faster than his. We intalled his this week and now he has the stronger pull as well. The drawbacks are:

It's not free
It's loud. Racey not Ricey but still can be droany.

Wraith wrote
since the engine is VVT-i its pretty hard to make a cam thats high lift due to it constantly adjusting cam timing...

One thing that's not apparant about cams is that the lifter acceleration rate (the lobe shape) has a great deal to do with total power. Think of a cam lobe for a minute and it kind of looks like an upside-down letter U. The greatest cam lobe in the world, made from unobtanium, would be that U with no round faces, just three straight lines...like 3 sides of a square. So when the lifter or valve would hit it...it would be instantly raised to full lift...instantly rocketing the valve open, then instantly dropping it closed. lol ...I'm not sure if this example is making sense. So the best cam lobe, again made from unobtanium, would be like an on-off switch (cam open = on, and cam closed = off).

That ski jump shape of a cam lobe, can be adjusted from very mild, to very wild. The faster you force the valve from closed position to full open, the more power you will make. Let me see if I can find an example cam over at comp. Here is an example of a Toyota 22R cam. Now if you picked up that cam box in a store, it might be listed something like this:

252/252 0.41 lift with a 110 degree centerline

This is how all cams are sold. The missing information is the lobe shape or lifter acceleration rate! DynoSim software gives cams a rating from 1 to 6 in this regards. 1 being very tame, and 6 being full bore racing only.

Why am I saying all this? It's my opinion that probably the best route for altering the scion cam would be to leave stock duration and lift alone, and simple have the cam reground, exact same specs, except with a step or two higher lobe rate. This is what I would do if I was gonna play with the cam. I have mentioned it to my dyno buddies and they were hesitant...other things happen: more pressure on the valves...more pressure on the springs, and I think it can also change pressure in the cylinder. I am going to revisit the issue next time I am there and I am still not opposed to trying it as long as it's a relatively safe test. More research needs to be done.

If you would like to see a little more on the world of cam lobes, check out these custom lobes over at comp. The differences between each lobe are for make and model of engine and for aggressiveness of lobe. Comp Lobes.

Wraith wrote
Why not go further with your engine work and run higher compression pistons to maybe 11.5:1 compression, 5angle valve job ( only for n/a), 1mm over size valves, Port and polish the head, Individual throttle bodies with custom air box, knife edge the crank, balance and blue print the whole rotating assembly...

Well :D This is what you would do with a full race engine, but spending 25k on an engine for a 15k car, it just seems like the math doesn't work. lol I thought about compression and I find it easier to shave the head than to swap the pistons...less work...but compression is tricky since we are so restricted by damn factory ECUs...everything would be 100X easier without factory ECUs...they seems to be a big bottleneck with most upgrading.

I am a little lazy, a little scared, and so I am purposely trying to avoid getting into the rotating assembly (crank, rods and pistons) since this is my first import engine and I don't want to get in over my head. So I am trying to stick with stuff in the head or above to stay reasonable for now.

11.5 would make more power for sure. I personally don't believe fancy valve angle cuts are worth much. I don't think you get a lot of flow benefit from this. Knife edging the crank does make power. I have seen it in testing and read about it. A big honking crank sloshing around slaps around a ton of oil and oil slows an engine. Make that big blunt edge into more of a point and you do reduce friction and gain a small amount of power...I'd guess in the 1-2% range. Balance and blueprint would be trick but probably not worth much on anything less than a full tilt race engine.

One More Intake Note
Intakes and headers are more about tuning. You can model the right size for your certain powerband with sophisticated software, or you can also simply test for it. One thing we were gonna try but I am too lazy to do it now (and I have the short and long injen so I can at least test that) is that we were going to take maybe a 12" tube into the throttle body and add a 90 degee bend straight up. With a rubber coupling you then connect different lengths of pipe aiming upward. So you might test a 6", 12", 18", 24", 36". It doesn't matter that you have this honking chimney coming out the front of your car, we simply need to locate the peak power point that we want and which total length makes that. Once you determine the optimum length size, then you go about fabricating the actual cold air intake, bending it into coils or a pretzel to make it fit under the hood. My guess is that Injen and the others probably did a little testing and found close to optimum with their longer setups.


thanks for your time. those are my stories for today. Please take everything I say with a bag of salt.


Andy
http://www.piratesofhorsepower.com
http://www.cobralads.com

 

i never thot this post would be this long

 

i see you want to up compression. have you thought of utilizing water/alky injection?

this might be something you want to look into, and best of all it's like a 24/7 steam clean for your engine, just don't dump TOO much in...

 

Updates
I picked up the parts this afternoon and braved the traffic. They decided only to do the head and header. Total cost was a little over $1000. Head was like $600 and Header was $400. Is it worth it? On the header...probably not. That more than doubles the cost of the header and the gains will be small. On the head...maybe. If I don't gain at least 6-12HP, then the cost will be too high vs the gains.

I'm not that good at photographing in chambers. Here are four pictures that were not too blurry:
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4

The ports are now just about glass smooth with microscopic scratches going in the direction of flow. This should help the head flow 10-20% more. I've been reading How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems. It's a great book but a lot of it is over my head. One thing the author points out is that most factory ECU can compensate for 10-15% in changes to the engine...when you get outside that envalope, then things don't go well. This is a good reason not to go too extreme with mods unless you are swapping out the whole engine management system. I'm fairly confindent that the little scion computer is robust enough to handle the changes I'm attempting. The header came out as smooth as the head. I am looking forward to installing and testing them on the chassis dyno.


Andy

 

very, very awesome. i know i am not alone when i say that i am stoked to see what kind of gains this yields. good luck on the re-assembly!

-jon

 

Whoooaaaa......!!!

 

those chambers and ports look good.

 

http://www.twminduction.com/Throttle...dy2000-FR.html

 

So andy.....how did it go on the dyno? is it worth it ?