Problems with the Perrin Pulley
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 661
From: Sheboygan, WI
Originally Posted by squirrel
It looks like someone didn't read the drawing/blueprint corectly.
As soon as Munch gets the proper pulley installed, I'll order it.
As soon as Munch gets the proper pulley installed, I'll order it.
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From: 886motorwerx
Originally Posted by Dewmerz
Originally Posted by squirrel
As soon as Munch gets the proper pulley installed, I'll order it.
I waiting for some hardware to show, so I can do another mod before the week is out.
I have a few other items of interest, but I need the strength in my right hand to come back first.
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Originally Posted by squirrel
Originally Posted by Dewmerz
Originally Posted by squirrel
As soon as Munch gets the proper pulley installed, I'll order it.
I waiting for some hardware to show, so I can do another mod before the week is out.
I have a few other items of interest, but I need the strength in my right hand to come back first.
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Posts: 640
Originally Posted by mgithens
where do you get the idea that a harmonic balancer that has been lightened by a machinist is any better than an aftermarket part...?? that doesn't even get close to a comprehension of what a harmonic balancer does... you first need to go take a course in engineering called Kinematics... but before that you'll need Dynamics, because you'll at least need a handle on the physics behind the purpose of a harmonic balancer... then you can move on to machine design...
then you can come back and edit your post to let people know that you have absolutely no idea about engine parts...
physics/kinematics lesson... inertia is the force that keeps the engine in motion, mass is part of the equation... if you took away this "balancing" that is provided on one end by the flywheel and on the other end by the harmonic balancer/pulley you would get an engine that would shake to pieces - due to the nature that the engine is only firing one cylinder every 180 degrees, so we offset this to give the engine longevity... without it we'd lose oil pressure in literally months - instead of years because the vibration would first cause the bearing seats to deform or wear abnormally - thus causing the clearnces between crank and block to become irregular and over spec... so an engine designer will take into account all the aspect of this engine - crank couterweight design, compression, horsepower, environmental factors, etc... these are things that you can only guess about, they will not give up this info... now they take this info to determine the amount of inertia that the engine can use, more is better for vibration control, but more inertial resistance means a slow revving engine - so a balance must be determined... by shaving weight off the flywheel and/or harmonic balancer you will absolutely deviate from the expected life of the engine, but you will see a quicker revving engine, so downshifts and upshifts will occur quicker BUT you will be hard pressed to measure an acceleration difference... you will gain a benefit from a smaller pulley because all the accessories will be getting less power and the drivetrain will get that power instead...
YOU WANNA SAVE INERTIAL LOAD?? take those stupid 19" or 22" rims off your car that wasn't designed for that... get lighter rims, but KEEP THE SAME DIAMETER... use low profile tires and you will see a regearing that will absolutely make a difference in how much torque you are putting to the ground... torque is what you are after in a sports car, horsepower allows for higher top end speed, it is a measure of work - which has no time limits... torque is where the acceleration is... so how is torque measure... ft-lbs... that means a force applied over a distance - or more accurately at a distance... so let's talk numbers... let's say you have an engine that makes 100ft-lb, then you are in 1st gear and your total drive ratio for 1st gear is about 14:1... then drivetrain eats some power (which becomes heat), so after the reduction of speed to 1/14th of the speed you would expect 14 times the torque, but you will see maybe 11 times due to the losses... so we now have 1100ft-lbs of torque coming through the driveshaft... so to determine how much "force" or "power" you are putting to the ground you have to divide your available torque by the radius of your tire... most tires are like 28" tall - give or take, but we'll just say 24" because 1/2 of that (the radius) is 12"... 1 foot... so now we have 1100 lbs of force accelerating the car... ok... so let's look at a larger rim and tire combination... let's exagerate... go to 36"... half of that is 1.5 feet... so now we have to divide 1100 ft-lbs / 1.5 ft... so we get 733 lbs of "thrust"... so this is why your 4x4 truck is slower with the big wheels...
I'm rambling... but that is Capt Morgan talking... but the point is that this is information, not my opinion... I am backing what I say by the facts that have made me come to believe what I do... instead of just spewing useless opinions like so many in the message board realm do...
sorry for the flame, but I get so tired of people claiming to know something that they follow up with information that proves they don't...
then you can come back and edit your post to let people know that you have absolutely no idea about engine parts...
physics/kinematics lesson... inertia is the force that keeps the engine in motion, mass is part of the equation... if you took away this "balancing" that is provided on one end by the flywheel and on the other end by the harmonic balancer/pulley you would get an engine that would shake to pieces - due to the nature that the engine is only firing one cylinder every 180 degrees, so we offset this to give the engine longevity... without it we'd lose oil pressure in literally months - instead of years because the vibration would first cause the bearing seats to deform or wear abnormally - thus causing the clearnces between crank and block to become irregular and over spec... so an engine designer will take into account all the aspect of this engine - crank couterweight design, compression, horsepower, environmental factors, etc... these are things that you can only guess about, they will not give up this info... now they take this info to determine the amount of inertia that the engine can use, more is better for vibration control, but more inertial resistance means a slow revving engine - so a balance must be determined... by shaving weight off the flywheel and/or harmonic balancer you will absolutely deviate from the expected life of the engine, but you will see a quicker revving engine, so downshifts and upshifts will occur quicker BUT you will be hard pressed to measure an acceleration difference... you will gain a benefit from a smaller pulley because all the accessories will be getting less power and the drivetrain will get that power instead...
YOU WANNA SAVE INERTIAL LOAD?? take those stupid 19" or 22" rims off your car that wasn't designed for that... get lighter rims, but KEEP THE SAME DIAMETER... use low profile tires and you will see a regearing that will absolutely make a difference in how much torque you are putting to the ground... torque is what you are after in a sports car, horsepower allows for higher top end speed, it is a measure of work - which has no time limits... torque is where the acceleration is... so how is torque measure... ft-lbs... that means a force applied over a distance - or more accurately at a distance... so let's talk numbers... let's say you have an engine that makes 100ft-lb, then you are in 1st gear and your total drive ratio for 1st gear is about 14:1... then drivetrain eats some power (which becomes heat), so after the reduction of speed to 1/14th of the speed you would expect 14 times the torque, but you will see maybe 11 times due to the losses... so we now have 1100ft-lbs of torque coming through the driveshaft... so to determine how much "force" or "power" you are putting to the ground you have to divide your available torque by the radius of your tire... most tires are like 28" tall - give or take, but we'll just say 24" because 1/2 of that (the radius) is 12"... 1 foot... so now we have 1100 lbs of force accelerating the car... ok... so let's look at a larger rim and tire combination... let's exagerate... go to 36"... half of that is 1.5 feet... so now we have to divide 1100 ft-lbs / 1.5 ft... so we get 733 lbs of "thrust"... so this is why your 4x4 truck is slower with the big wheels...
I'm rambling... but that is Capt Morgan talking... but the point is that this is information, not my opinion... I am backing what I say by the facts that have made me come to believe what I do... instead of just spewing useless opinions like so many in the message board realm do...
sorry for the flame, but I get so tired of people claiming to know something that they follow up with information that proves they don't...
Originally Posted by George
Originally Posted by mgithens
Originally Posted by scionxb04
"where do you get the idea that a harmonic balancer that has been lightened by a machinist is any better than an aftermarket part...??"
because they can balance it after its been lightened and it still retains the harmonic dampener
because they can balance it after its been lightened and it still retains the harmonic dampener
George
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1
We goofed big time! Yes the pulley doens't fit, the inside pulley is a 10% reduction, which causes it to interfere with the oil pump housing.
We made 2 different pulleys as prototypes, one same size as stock, and one with a 10% reduction on the PS side of the pulley. During the test fitting, the stock one fit and the 10% reduced one didn't! When it came time to make the production part the program for the 10% reduction was used, not the stock size. That is also why on our site we don't mention anything about them being 10% reduced on the PS side, because its not supposed to be reduced.
Anyone that has one of these pulleys in hand needs to contact us so we can exchange them for the right pulley (which are going in production later today). You may also contact your dealer you bought it from to do the exchange. At this point it will be 2-3 weeks before we ship them out to the customers.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience we have caused to anyone that has installed this pulley. We are doing our best to quickly get the right parts made and out to the customers.
Munch thanks for bringing this to our attention, i am glad you are being very understandable about the situation.
The good thing about our goof is we now have some really cool, expensive paper weights for Christmas gifts!
We made 2 different pulleys as prototypes, one same size as stock, and one with a 10% reduction on the PS side of the pulley. During the test fitting, the stock one fit and the 10% reduced one didn't! When it came time to make the production part the program for the 10% reduction was used, not the stock size. That is also why on our site we don't mention anything about them being 10% reduced on the PS side, because its not supposed to be reduced.
Anyone that has one of these pulleys in hand needs to contact us so we can exchange them for the right pulley (which are going in production later today). You may also contact your dealer you bought it from to do the exchange. At this point it will be 2-3 weeks before we ship them out to the customers.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience we have caused to anyone that has installed this pulley. We are doing our best to quickly get the right parts made and out to the customers.
Munch thanks for bringing this to our attention, i am glad you are being very understandable about the situation.
The good thing about our goof is we now have some really cool, expensive paper weights for Christmas gifts!
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SL Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 661
From: Sheboygan, WI
Originally Posted by PERRIN
We goofed big time! Yes the pulley doens't fit, the inside pulley is a 10% reduction, which causes it to interfere with the oil pump housing.
We made 2 different pulleys as prototypes, one same size as stock, and one with a 10% reduction on the PS side of the pulley. During the test fitting, the stock one fit and the 10% reduced one didn't! When it came time to make the production part the program for the 10% reduction was used, not the stock size. That is also why on our site we don't mention anything about them being 10% reduced on the PS side, because its not supposed to be reduced.
Anyone that has one of these pulleys in hand needs to contact us so we can exchange them for the right pulley (which are going in production later today). You may also contact your dealer you bought it from to do the exchange. At this point it will be 2-3 weeks before we ship them out to the customers.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience we have caused to anyone that has installed this pulley. We are doing our best to quickly get the right parts made and out to the customers.
Munch thanks for bringing this to our attention, i am glad you are being very understandable about the situation.
The good thing about our goof is we now have some really cool, expensive paper weights for Christmas gifts!
We made 2 different pulleys as prototypes, one same size as stock, and one with a 10% reduction on the PS side of the pulley. During the test fitting, the stock one fit and the 10% reduced one didn't! When it came time to make the production part the program for the 10% reduction was used, not the stock size. That is also why on our site we don't mention anything about them being 10% reduced on the PS side, because its not supposed to be reduced.
Anyone that has one of these pulleys in hand needs to contact us so we can exchange them for the right pulley (which are going in production later today). You may also contact your dealer you bought it from to do the exchange. At this point it will be 2-3 weeks before we ship them out to the customers.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience we have caused to anyone that has installed this pulley. We are doing our best to quickly get the right parts made and out to the customers.
Munch thanks for bringing this to our attention, i am glad you are being very understandable about the situation.
The good thing about our goof is we now have some really cool, expensive paper weights for Christmas gifts!
now i need to go call vividracing. ill post what their course of action is after i get off the phone
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 661
From: Sheboygan, WI
ok i just called vividracing, jon is sending me a return label to send it back and is ordering the correct one for me. if you got yours from vividracing also drop them a line
sales@vividracing.com
1.866.44.VIVID ext 290
AIM - vrgraphixxxs
www.vividracing.com
sales@vividracing.com
1.866.44.VIVID ext 290
AIM - vrgraphixxxs
www.vividracing.com
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by TOAST3R
ok i just called vividracing, jon is sending me a return label to send it back and is ordering the correct one for me. if you got yours from vividracing also drop them a line
sales@vividracing.com
1.866.44.VIVID ext 290
AIM - vrgraphixxxs
www.vividracing.com
sales@vividracing.com
1.866.44.VIVID ext 290
AIM - vrgraphixxxs
www.vividracing.com
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,140
From: Elmira, NY
In my line of work it's a cliche to say "Every problem is realy an opportunity" I like to punch those people that say that in the mouth, but in this case it's true. I'll be getting the pully and shifter from Perrin because of this quick response and honesty.
