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Old Jun 21, 2006 | 09:02 PM
  #21  
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Default Re: 1NZ-FE TRD Turbo

Originally Posted by superfreestyle
Originally Posted by Experimental
Why is the TRD turbo kit for the 1NZ-FE not offered to the states. the Vios was offered limited edition from toyota turbocharged by TRD from factory. 143 hp @6400 RPM and 196 nm @4400 rpms. source http://paultan.org/archives/2005/11/...ta-vios-turbo/

seems it would have made the xB even more of a hot item had this been offered to us.
that explains why our motors can handle 10lbs of boost with ease.... toyota designed the motor to handle a turbo.... i feel sorry for my motor now, what if it had been shipped to the warehouse that made the Vios Turbo, my motor would have had such a better life with a turbo strapped on it
Not so... with 10.5 compression... it wont handle much boost at all... you will get detonation and burn up pistons... You need a lower CR and some forged rods, crank and pistons... to handle a descent amount of boost..
Old Jun 21, 2006 | 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mikem53
Originally Posted by rollhard
Originally Posted by mikem53
Originally Posted by Simplyscion
tuning issues...they use a MAP sensor instead of a MAF sensor and they run 100+ octane compared to our 91+ octane...running more timing to get those numbers over there is way less of an issue than being able to duplicate the numbers here with our lower octane rating...sucks to be us
Well I have a mini cooper S that uses a MAP sensor, is 1.6L that is forced induction and in stock form puts out 168hp. Currently running 192 HP with intake , exhaust and a 15% reduction pulley on the SC....
No reason the xB's MAP system can't handle it with the 91+ fuel...
It needs some ECM programming... My mini is still using stock programming....
The xB was designed for fuel economy... but you can have both... I get 27mpg city and 35 hwy in the mini... and its heavier than the scion...
It's only time before someone comes out with a reprogrammer or a piggy-back unit for the ECU. But the xB still won't be as quick... its not designed for speed...
How do you know that you are getting 192hp in the Mini? Also there are plenty of piggybacks for the Scion ECU already. The problem is that the self learning ECU will overwrite things...its THAT smart. As far as the XB going fast, I am certain a turbo xb will easily take a Cooper S with not problem at all. There are plenty of people running 15s NA with just bolt ons. Blown XBs can see mid to low 13s properly tuned.

The other problem is also that the Toyotas/Scions dont use a map sensor. All the newer cars use a Hotwire sensor.
Because I had the mini dynoed. If it were such a smart self-learning ECU, then it would know how to handle the airflow.. What you said makes no sense. MAF or MAP .. it doesn't matter... they both can read the airflow or pressure..
So what would you rather have? A bolt-on turbo for a econo-box that is factory set for fuel economy.. or a factory built car that is designed around forced induction?
There are twincharged minis running around with 350 whp. The box don't have a chance.. It is what it is...
Good luck trying to beat a cooper S with a xB.. blown or not..
I appologize if i offended you with my post. Im not blasting the mini at all. Its a great car and I owned one 5 years ago. There is an advantage of running a map pressure sensor of a hotwire type sensor. If I had a choice, I would go with the map sensor. A map sensor is limited to what it can read up to. Who know what the hotwire sensors limit is. Thats why the ecu wont know what to do with the extra airflow or pressure. The ECU senses that something is not right from the piggyback and it will try to make changes. How do I know? Because Ive been tuning this damn thing almost every day. Most piggybacks if not all, only allow you to alter certain signals that the ECU is getting. For instance, Greddy made some injector duty cycle corrections to help with fuel management on the Greddy turbo kit. The ECU will get readings from the water temp, air temp, pressure, flow, timing, speed, etc and will try to make the corrections. Once certain readings exceed its parameters, it wont know what to do aside from bringing everything back to stock levels. This has been an ongoing issue and the Elise guys are having the same problem as the ECUs characteristics are similar.
Old Jun 22, 2006 | 12:22 AM
  #23  
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Old Jun 22, 2006 | 01:13 AM
  #24  
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Ive been talking to someone at Toyota and the problem is because the ECU makes its adjustments from more parameters than the piggyback will allow you to control. Lets say the stock afm can read a range of 1 cfm to 300 cfm. Now that is only an example. And lets say with the car turbocharged will draw 350cfm, the ECU can only assume its going at 300cfm max, allow the correct ignition timing and fuel for 300cfm. Thats why people change or upgrade map sensors. For example some cars come with a 3 bar map sensor. So if you are going to run more than 3 bar, youll need something that can read more. I think the problem is that the Emanage is altering the airflow to trick the ecu into adding more fuel. The ecu is getting a reading that there is more fuel, but the water temp, speed, throttle position, etc. is all the same. For what it knows, its not supposed to be that way. I like what ZPI did. They added the larger injectors and didnt tune it. The ECU cant do anything or wont know how to hold that fuel in so there is no worry of fuel starvation. They will then use the Emanage to lean it out a bit. This might also mess with the ECU but a much safer way imo. I hope this makes sense. Ive been sitting here all day with exhaust fumes coming in and the sound of cars dynoing. I need to go home....
Old Jun 22, 2006 | 11:40 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by rollhard
Ive been talking to someone at Toyota and the problem is because the ECU makes its adjustments from more parameters than the piggyback will allow you to control. Lets say the stock afm can read a range of 1 cfm to 300 cfm. Now that is only an example. And lets say with the car turbocharged will draw 350cfm, the ECU can only assume its going at 300cfm max, allow the correct ignition timing and fuel for 300cfm. Thats why people change or upgrade map sensors. For example some cars come with a 3 bar map sensor. So if you are going to run more than 3 bar, youll need something that can read more. I think the problem is that the Emanage is altering the airflow to trick the ecu into adding more fuel. The ecu is getting a reading that there is more fuel, but the water temp, speed, throttle position, etc. is all the same. For what it knows, its not supposed to be that way. I like what ZPI did. They added the larger injectors and didnt tune it. The ECU cant do anything or wont know how to hold that fuel in so there is no worry of fuel starvation. They will then use the Emanage to lean it out a bit. This might also mess with the ECU but a much safer way imo. I hope this makes sense. Ive been sitting here all day with exhaust fumes coming in and the sound of cars dynoing. I need to go home....
I understand your issues.. you are pioneering new territory. Adding larger injectors might be the best way for now... They should be able to supply enough fuel at WOT with limited boost... When running closed loop mode the O2 sensors should limit fuel but you might run a bit richer during normal driving. Sounds like the piggy-back is not up to handling the air-flow you are creating with the turbo.. It's just a matter of time and demand beforethese issues are addressed.
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