RTon20s

You know, I don't know how many times, and on how many forums I have had to explain that performance parts' horsepower claims are not cumulative.

And even if you can get people understanding that, you still have to explain to them that the 10hp gain that a manufacturer claims still isn't necessarily peak horsepower. Hell an aftermarket part may actually decrease your peak horsepower but give you a 10hp gain at 1000 rpm. (And we all know how useful that is.) They can still claim a 10 hp gain without lying. Deceptive? Yes. Dishonest? No.

I know it is frustrating for me as a complete novice. I would hate to think of how annoying it is for the folks out there that actually have a clue.

By the way Rollhard... what would you charge an SL member to do some dyno runs? And what about doing those runs with some tuning on their car with say an e-manage?

rollhard

The only thing that will help you gain more hp the more mods you do is the exhaust system. We actually do hp tests for EPA here. They do the testing to see if manufactur claims are accurate. Its pretty funny seeing the results. Anyhow, you are dead right about some parts not giving power, at all. In fact they rob power. You guys have to understand the manufacturing process to know what goes on. There are advantages and disadvantages of companies making parts for your car. ZPI, for example, you can expect a company like that to test their products before selling it, assuming their test results are accurate. Some of the big companies, unless they are doing their own R&D, etc. most just order the exhaust or whatever overseas from a factory that copied something from probably someone else. All they do is make sure something fits your car and they go by the "bigger is better" idea....which is not always the case. For example, about a month ago, I had a customer come to do a baseline run on his 2006 S2000. He ran a baseline of 203whp. Not bad. He came back about 3 weeks ago and dynoed again because he added a JIC catback exhaust. Well, he made 184whp. Lol. People dont understand that the car manufacturers do a LOT of r&d to get the power. You cant simply make the same thing with a free flow muffler and larger pipes and expect hp gains.

As far as dyno testing. I have told someone else on SL, who joined Stech, that its $80 to do a baseline of 4 runs. If you can get some people together, Ill see what I can do for you as far as a group rate. I can tune your car also with the Emanage. Expect tuning to run you around the $120-$150 range. I dont cut corners, bs you or anything. During tuning, I will explain everything to you and show exactly how you are gaining or losing power.

earpl

lol you guys are funny...... the car was dyno'd by THOR (http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/) using their "Dynopack", standard the car dyno'd at 113bhp (at the wheels), obviously the HP figures toyota give is an average taken over a cirtain number of vehicles produced, book figure is 108bhp. so there has been a 26bhp increase from a A'pexi cone filter (relocated onto the throttle body) fujitsubo backbox, straight through 2.5" exhaust, uni-chip and a perrin crank pully. this is the UK's most powerfull N/A yaris Tsport, running the 1/4 in 15.7 secs, and for some reason not hitting the limiter untill 7000rpm instead of 6250. another Tsport is 131 bhp, a few between125/129 bhp and more lower down. as for the turbo, im not using a kit, im using a garett T3, external wastegate (exhausting through screamer pipe), HKS ssq bov, perrin fuel rail, walbro 250L per hour fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, FMIC, a few other bits and bobs to be sorted like ballencing all the valves, conrods, pistons (all easily done by myself) then send the crank off to be ballenced and acid treated to make it stronger, also porting and pollishing the head, appart from the head work + ballencing most other bits are nearly ready. gearbox wise i've mated the bell housing from my old gearbox (that i broke) to the rear half of a celica 6'spd box also using the celica linkages and gearshift.

RTon20s

We are the funny ones, yet you are the one using the terms brake horse power (bhp) and wheel horse power interchangeably. I am not too versed with international practices, standards and measurements, so maybe it is a conversion thing.

If it isn't though you are telling us that your put 113 hp to the ground STOCK. You stated yourself that the car was rated at 108 hp to the CRANK. Using the standard accepted 15% loss for wheel horse power vs. brake horse power that puts your stock 1NZFE at almost 133 hp at the crank. And I am sorry, but there is no way that the variance on Toyota's little 1.5 is as much as 25 hp. Almost 1/4 of the total output.

Then you claim that by clamping a cone shaped filter to your throttle body (No MAF I assume) adding a "black box" (whatever that is), a grossly oversized 2.5" exhaust, a chip, and a crank pulley you gained an additional 26 "bhp" to the wheels. This leaves you at the claimed 140 hp. (Actually 139, but since we are stretching already, what's another 1 hp?) And this is "to the wheels", right? So doing a little basic math, that puts your Yaris at 164+ hp to the crank!

That is amazing given you have very basic bolt-ons. And with all of that horsepower you are able to click off quarter mile runs in only 15.7?! Pretty amazing considering guys here with similar bolt ons in xB (save for the chip) are running similar times with what has to be less than 110 hp to the wheels. Heck the quickest xB auto. I am aware of just broke into the 14s. And he dumped $5k into new pistons and e-manage to bump compression up and gain 28 hp and 38 ft./lbs. And these are cars that weigh a couple HUNDRED more pounds than yours.

Regardless of what you have done, or what you plan to do, something about your posts just aren't right. Either your horsepower numbers are wrong. Or what you list for modifications isn't correct. Or your 1/4 mile times are wrong. Or as I originally stated, there is some conversion that takes place in the equation somewhere over the Atlantic between us and you.

And, sorry if I am coming off as a jerk. But when someone shows me 2+2=22, I have a hard time believing it. Even when they "show me the math." Never the less... I look forward to seeing the progress of your turbo build and 6 speed swap. I am sure there are many here that would be anxious to see pictures and performance results.

NeoXa

Kinda getting that " oh i put a b16c5 in my box/egg, all custom computer and linkage custom fab. to make it all work, turbo and all kinds of jazz " thread coming on with some of these claims. To be honest, i'll believe it when i see it.
Putting a 6 speed from a car where the motor in our car would never work unless you plan on ripping through firewall and cutting the bejesus out of the frame to make stuff fit. oh well...we shall see sometime in the near never.

Simplyscion

I would have easily broke into the 14's with my auto xB although I never brought it down to the track...I made 123 whp on a dynojet...put it on a mustang dyno and that 123 woulda turned into 130+ whp and this was only at 6 psi...8 psi woulda netted me 150+ and I dont even wanna imagine what I woulda put down when I had the boost controller set to spike out at around 10-13 psi...all on an automatic

RTon20s

Keep in mind... he has neither an xB or xA. He has a Toyota Yaris T Sport. From what I have seen these were available on the other side of the pond beginning in 2001. They might have a little more room under the hood to make things work. Then again... maybe not. We shall see.

To me, making the room for the motor on the subframe/firewall is no big deal. Then again, I come from the world of dragging frames, and bodies.

RTon20s

I have no doubt about your car's performance Vito. But the guy in here from England is claiming 140 hp naturally aspirated with "bolt-ons" in a Yaris. And with that 140 hp he can only turn a 15.7 quarter in a manual.

Simplyscion

yea, that seems a lil fishy to me also...I was looking under the hood of the yaris today and I noticed that the engine bay is set up slightly different...for starters the batteries are in a different location from the xA/xB and they use a different intake setup than the scions do...Im sure that it would be the same for the vitz also as they are both smaller cars than the xA/xB. Im also curious as to what "chip" this guy is talking about

edit...after reading further I see he used the unichip as his management

rollhard

I doubt that he made 140hp but that 15.7 1/4 is possible. When I started to race my 1st gen DSM. I ran consistent 15.5s. On my 4rth run, the staging guy asked me if I was running a turbo... I said yes. He was like "dude, just drop the clutch man!" Well, I did and I ran a 12.7. hahaha, the driving is such an important part. Now,...if he was driving and automatic, thats a different story. The same thing happened with my MR2. I was running all kinds of times at Atco that night. 14s, 13s, 12s, 15s, then I got one good launch and pulled an 11.9.

RTon20s

If what he claims to have on his car is true, it is obvious that there are some significant differences between the USDM 1NZFE found in the xB and xA and the units used over in England for the Yaris. Namely the ECU. That would have to be different if UNI has a chip for them. I know they don't have a chip for our cars. Neither does anyone else.

I also wonder if they use a MAF. I question that because he stated that he bolted the cone filter directly to the throttle body. I have a feeling an xA or xB would have quite a hard time running properly if we just left the MAF dangling from the wires in the engine bay. I guess they probably still run a MAP sensor. But not knowing the car, I can't say for sure.

Simplyscion

it might use the MAP sensor...I know the 1nz over in Japan uses a MAP sensor instead of the MAF that we are stuck with over here in North America...MAP sensors are sooo much more user friendly for tuning.

RTon20s

The way I understand it the Yaris T Sport was the "highest performance" Yaris available over on that side of the pond. I don't think they sell it anymore, but I'm not sure. The standard Yaris motors are 1.0 and 1.3 liters respectively. The "T Sport" got the bad boy 1.5 liter 1NZFE hot rod motor. And they were only available with a 5 speed.

I have no doubt he ran a 15.7. I also have no real doubt about the parts he has installed. (See my post above about the MAP sensor vs. MAF sensor.) The statements he made about those two things seem pretty consistent. Especially given the 200+/- pound weight advantage he would have over a similarly equipped xB.

I do highly doubt the dyno numbers though. Either there is some mathematic conversion that I am missing... we are having a miscommunication issue... the dyno is set up completely wrong... or he is full of crap.

rollhard

You gotta love it when we refer the 1.5 liter as the "hot rod motor" hahahaha

Simplyscion

BeQuietAndDrive

Yaris T-Sport got the same 1NZ we all did. No huge HP difference there.

And he didn't say he installed a "black box"...he said "back box"
which is Brit terminology for "cat-back exhaust system", and in his case, is made by Fujitsubo.

RTon20s

Oh... my mistake. I must have accidentally read "black" instead of "back."

That still doesn't change the fact that he claims 140 hp to the wheels with basic bolt-ons. To the wheels! That is almost 165 hp at the crank on a 1NZFE. All of this with a cone filter bolted to the throttle body (no intake tube at all), an oversized 2.5" cat-back exhaust, lightened crank pulley, and the all powerful UNI chip.

I just plain don't buy it. Unless, of course, UNI has found a way to tweak an additional 30+ wheel horse power out of a 1NZFE using a MAP with basic bolt-ons.

I am not trying to be a jerk here... just telling it like it is. With the power he is claiming he should be putting down mid 14 second runs in the quarter... EASY.

earpl

the only proven 1/4 times i've seen on here have been about right for a scion. but then people go on about oh i was running in the 14's bull____..... unless were talking daft yank mile measurments. as for the 140 hp, it was on the rollers. other UK Tsports with simlar modifications make about 12bhp less.............. and the car weighs 1,957.70lbs im not going to bite with all you "he's talking crap comments", cause it really doesn't bother me i know what it is and how it drives, and i know these cars inside out

rollhard

You're putting out 139whp, not bhp. You said the power was on the rollers. Who cares. The point is your car is a freak of nature and its putting out the same power as my engine...blown. I think we all got off topic here. It really doesnt bother me that you say your car puts out this and that amount of power or how fast it is. I agree with you though, that many people saying that they are running 14s, but I would like to see a video that has the car and the time. I havent called them out on it because I havent ran my car. At 2415lbs + driver + fuel + larger rims, etc, You would need to have a good amount of power to run 14s. Those automatic guys with bolt ons, saying they ran 14s....I dont know....

earpl

well thats just a missunderstanding in the way "bhp" is used across the atlantic. and yes one of the owners of a TTE supercharged yaris was there when i had mine dyno's (he ran at 142 whp (see i got it right!!)) he was gutted.