What is Max boost being put out so far on the stock xB motor
What is the Max amount of boost being put out so far on the stock xB motor with a turbo or supercharger setup. Just curious. Also what type of turbo is being run, anyone drop in a garret unit yet, like possibly a GT28RS or would that thing just blow that motor to pieces? Just thinking for a little future notice if I really want to start playing with this motor. I get bored easily,
Originally Posted by Spider13
I am pretty sure Matchbox gets up around 10 with no problems so far.
have been doing so for about year with no problems (except a burnt out clutch).
Originally Posted by dgHotLava
Originally Posted by Spider13
I am pretty sure Matchbox gets up around 10 with no problems so far.
have been doing so for about year with no problems (except a burnt out clutch).
if I can run 30 psi on a stock neon motor im sure this motor can handle 12psi daily
thanks for the info guys, but your all running small turbo units, anyone running something with some high cfm numbers
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From: 886motorwerx
Snake, for turbo applications anything more than 6 psi continually will snap the connecting rods. IMHO, a supercharger is the better route of the two to go.
The bottom ends aren't built to withstand anything more than what Toyota had designed the car for, commuting.
The bottom ends aren't built to withstand anything more than what Toyota had designed the car for, commuting.
1nz turbo story
Turbo charging the 1nz-fe has proven to be chore. It responds to boost quite nicely with a properly sized turbo. But its downfalls are the internals and its engine management.
Lets touch on the internals. First and foremost are the rods. Although quite strong for their size, they are designed for normal aspiration only. A half point higher in compression is about all they can handle daily without failure. Once boost is added to the equation, it becomes Russian roulette as to when they will let loose. You may last eight months with 50,000 miles or blow it the first pass down the street; there are no warning signs. We know this because of the testing of our turbo kit for the last year. The testing started on the Echo then was transferred to a Scion. The testing was controlled and only once was it taken past its set 7-psi mark while in our possession. Its one time high boost pass on the dyno was done to see how much the turbo would produce at maximum efficiency. Fueling and timing were changed to handle this. Every month the pan was dropped and there were no signs of abnormal rod bearing wear. The compression was straight across the board every time. The first motor lasted 6 months with about 35,000 miles. Its life was cut short while at the paint shop. Rumors placed it at the local street races near the paint shop, which they had for 3 weeks. All the baked on rubber in the fender well was the first clue. It let loose on its way back from them. A fresh motor was installed ASAP to continue the testing. The old motor was broke down to find the rod broke right above the crank pin. The dangling rod was beaten into the walls and punctured holes on both sides of the block. The second one let loose 12,467 miles later. It had seen one race with 3 passes at 9 psi. Fueling and timing were also changed to handle this. Other than that it was daily driven. The rods let go again, the same way, only this time it punctured the water jacket and destroyed the head. These engines have the crankshaft offset 12mm to the thrust side of the cylinder bore centerline. This reduces the side force generated at maximum compression, for reduced friction and improved fuel economy. Toyota calculates the offset crankshaft configuration reduces fuel consumption by between one and three percent. Unfortunately, this throws the angle of the rod way out on its upward travel causing the rod to just give up under boost and snap. If there is any detonation or pre-ignition this breakage will occur at an accelerated rate. The movement and breakage of the cylinder walls is the same as Honda’s open deck. Although we have yet to split one, we designed a block guard just in case. This product keeps cylinders from moving around and from splitting open the top of the bore. We are currently designing a forged replacement rod as well as a rod piston combo for high boost applications. The first of the sleeved blocks is being tested now.
Now for the ecu. It cannot handle boost in its stock form. Its timing is set for the stock parameters only. It will not handle larger injectors either. Piggyback or stand-alone management is needed to fuel the turbo properly, end of story.
From what we have seen, these issues probably were found by the likes of Blitz and Greddy long before we did. That’s why the boost on their kits was so low. The stock injectors will supply enough fuel for 3 to 4 psi if the MAF reaches full voltage and gets the injectors to 85 percent duty. Unfortunately you end up with a 15:1 AFR at peak rpm this way. Good for passing emissions but bad for the motor. The RS turbo Vitz has an ecu calibrated for the larger injectors that feed 150 ps at the flywheel which in turn is 127 ps at the wheels. The blitz s/c was turning 122 hp to the wheels without an ecu for the US market. With the ecu (JDM only), the s/c put down 129 ps to the wheels. It seems like the kits are limited to 150 at the flywheel but no one says how long it will last. Our turbo kit produced 144 hp and 150 tq to the wheels. That’s 170 hp at the flywheel. We have worked with several management systems and we will inform the public of the best one for our kit. We will release our kit soon but cannot warranty it except for workmanship. This kit will push your engine over the edge in the long run but if you build it our kit will be able to provide up to 250 hp at the flywheel. That’s 217 at the wheels. With all this said, it is up to you, the consumer, to decide whether this kit is right for you.
Turbo charging the 1nz-fe has proven to be chore. It responds to boost quite nicely with a properly sized turbo. But its downfalls are the internals and its engine management.
Lets touch on the internals. First and foremost are the rods. Although quite strong for their size, they are designed for normal aspiration only. A half point higher in compression is about all they can handle daily without failure. Once boost is added to the equation, it becomes Russian roulette as to when they will let loose. You may last eight months with 50,000 miles or blow it the first pass down the street; there are no warning signs. We know this because of the testing of our turbo kit for the last year. The testing started on the Echo then was transferred to a Scion. The testing was controlled and only once was it taken past its set 7-psi mark while in our possession. Its one time high boost pass on the dyno was done to see how much the turbo would produce at maximum efficiency. Fueling and timing were changed to handle this. Every month the pan was dropped and there were no signs of abnormal rod bearing wear. The compression was straight across the board every time. The first motor lasted 6 months with about 35,000 miles. Its life was cut short while at the paint shop. Rumors placed it at the local street races near the paint shop, which they had for 3 weeks. All the baked on rubber in the fender well was the first clue. It let loose on its way back from them. A fresh motor was installed ASAP to continue the testing. The old motor was broke down to find the rod broke right above the crank pin. The dangling rod was beaten into the walls and punctured holes on both sides of the block. The second one let loose 12,467 miles later. It had seen one race with 3 passes at 9 psi. Fueling and timing were also changed to handle this. Other than that it was daily driven. The rods let go again, the same way, only this time it punctured the water jacket and destroyed the head. These engines have the crankshaft offset 12mm to the thrust side of the cylinder bore centerline. This reduces the side force generated at maximum compression, for reduced friction and improved fuel economy. Toyota calculates the offset crankshaft configuration reduces fuel consumption by between one and three percent. Unfortunately, this throws the angle of the rod way out on its upward travel causing the rod to just give up under boost and snap. If there is any detonation or pre-ignition this breakage will occur at an accelerated rate. The movement and breakage of the cylinder walls is the same as Honda’s open deck. Although we have yet to split one, we designed a block guard just in case. This product keeps cylinders from moving around and from splitting open the top of the bore. We are currently designing a forged replacement rod as well as a rod piston combo for high boost applications. The first of the sleeved blocks is being tested now.
Now for the ecu. It cannot handle boost in its stock form. Its timing is set for the stock parameters only. It will not handle larger injectors either. Piggyback or stand-alone management is needed to fuel the turbo properly, end of story.
From what we have seen, these issues probably were found by the likes of Blitz and Greddy long before we did. That’s why the boost on their kits was so low. The stock injectors will supply enough fuel for 3 to 4 psi if the MAF reaches full voltage and gets the injectors to 85 percent duty. Unfortunately you end up with a 15:1 AFR at peak rpm this way. Good for passing emissions but bad for the motor. The RS turbo Vitz has an ecu calibrated for the larger injectors that feed 150 ps at the flywheel which in turn is 127 ps at the wheels. The blitz s/c was turning 122 hp to the wheels without an ecu for the US market. With the ecu (JDM only), the s/c put down 129 ps to the wheels. It seems like the kits are limited to 150 at the flywheel but no one says how long it will last. Our turbo kit produced 144 hp and 150 tq to the wheels. That’s 170 hp at the flywheel. We have worked with several management systems and we will inform the public of the best one for our kit. We will release our kit soon but cannot warranty it except for workmanship. This kit will push your engine over the edge in the long run but if you build it our kit will be able to provide up to 250 hp at the flywheel. That’s 217 at the wheels. With all this said, it is up to you, the consumer, to decide whether this kit is right for you.
On a 10 to 1 compression motor for a daily drive I would never go over 7 psi. Even 7 is a large amount of boost on stock internals. These motors were not designed for boost, adding boost is a roll of the dice. Adding boost without timing changes is even worse. The 12 psi motors I have a hard time believing, it's piossible but not safe in my eyes. The above mentioned kit putting down twice the amount of power as the stocker is a great claim. I've also seen pullies for my truck claim 80hp (Yeah if you build everything else to handle it) Detonation is a killer, I know I toasted 3 turbos and 2 blocks on my SVO, playing with boost. I now take boost much more seriously. I think the understanding of how turbo's and superchagers work is a bit misunderstood here. Neither generates constant PSI. There is Vaccum, and it is most of the time. Even when I'm driing around I hit boost pressure once or twice for a couple of seconds. It's possible to put a 20 PSI blower on these motors and last forever, if you never got into the boost it is just a noisy pretty object mounted on the motor running vaccum all the time. The harder you drive it the harder the motor is beat. One persons driving habit is not anothers. Even if you had a 12 psi turbo you could never drive it all the time in the boost, it is physiclly impossible, even on the freeway. It looks like ELP has some serious projects going on, I will keep watching as it's only a matter of time before the xa is boosted. But it will take quite a bit more than a 'Turbo intake" off ebay, a turbo and some fuel injectors to get me to play with that. One slip on the fuel or timing on my truck and boom the block now has air conditioning. I just want to excercise a word of caution to anyone that takes on a project of this size. I'll do it, not sure when but some time, be safe in the mean time. I can not stress how much forged internals are worth. I personally would never run boost on any car without forged pistons and rods.
Originally Posted by EExA
On a 10 to 1 compression motor for a daily drive I would never go over 7 psi. Even 7 is a large amount of boost on stock internals. These motors were not designed for boost, adding boost is a roll of the dice. Adding boost without timing changes is even worse. The 12 psi motors I have a hard time believing, it's piossible but not safe in my eyes. The above mentioned kit putting down twice the amount of power as the stocker is a great claim. I've also seen pullies for my truck claim 80hp (Yeah if you build everything else to handle it) Detonation is a killer, I know I toasted 3 turbos and 2 blocks on my SVO, playing with boost. I now take boost much more seriously. I think the understanding of how turbo's and superchagers work is a bit misunderstood here. Neither generates constant PSI. There is Vaccum, and it is most of the time. Even when I'm driing around I hit boost pressure once or twice for a couple of seconds. It's possible to put a 20 PSI blower on these motors and last forever, if you never got into the boost it is just a noisy pretty object mounted on the motor running vaccum all the time. The harder you drive it the harder the motor is beat. One persons driving habit is not anothers. Even if you had a 12 psi turbo you could never drive it all the time in the boost, it is physiclly impossible, even on the freeway. It looks like ELP has some serious projects going on, I will keep watching as it's only a matter of time before the xa is boosted. But it will take quite a bit more than a 'Turbo intake" off ebay, a turbo and some fuel injectors to get me to play with that. One slip on the fuel or timing on my truck and boom the block now has air conditioning. I just want to excercise a word of caution to anyone that takes on a project of this size. I'll do it, not sure when but some time, be safe in the mean time. I can not stress how much forged internals are worth. I personally would never run boost on any car without forged pistons and rods.
my supercharger puts 12psi into the motor at redline.
crusing on the highway its at a contsant 6psi (no vacuum).
this is a stock motor and an unmodified supercharger.
i have a 55 mile one way commute and 50 miles of it is at highway speeds (60-80).
all of this time its boosting.
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From: Smithtown Scion (NY)
Originally Posted by dgHotLava
wow....just wow...most of what you put up is just babble...
my supercharger puts 12psi into the motor at redline.
crusing on the highway its at a contsant 6psi (no vacuum).
this is a stock motor and an unmodified supercharger.
i have a 55 mile one way commute and 50 miles of it is at highway speeds (60-80).
all of this time its boosting.
my supercharger puts 12psi into the motor at redline.
crusing on the highway its at a contsant 6psi (no vacuum).
this is a stock motor and an unmodified supercharger.
i have a 55 mile one way commute and 50 miles of it is at highway speeds (60-80).
all of this time its boosting.
if your cruising down the highway at say. 3500 rpms, how are you in boost? your only in boost when you are accelarating. so if the cruise control is on, or your just driving a steady speed, your not in boost! its just not possible. check your boost gauge while cruising.
and i don't see a problem running 12 psi on the XB motor every once in a while. but i would have to agree, forged internals are well worth the money. 12psi all day, everyday would kill our motor very fast! is anyone running a FMIC? its even harder on the motor with out one. nothings worse than forcing HOT air into a N/A motor! Thats asking for the death bed!
and i don't see a problem running 12 psi on the XB motor every once in a while. but i would have to agree, forged internals are well worth the money. 12psi all day, everyday would kill our motor very fast! is anyone running a FMIC? its even harder on the motor with out one. nothings worse than forcing HOT air into a N/A motor! Thats asking for the death bed!






