yes... definitely keep us up to date jm! my leds were out of stock... so it may be a couple of weeks to get them in

 

You can count on it. I'm gonna borrow the digital camera from my job and will provide pics of the board plus any schematic drawings I will conjur up. The solution is so close I can feel it.

 

Because above average customers do notice and improve on a good design...... it's called modding It's a shame, but little wonder, you don't notice.

 

 

Engifineer, you can be as harsh as you wish, I am pretty thick-skinned and you won't hurt my feelings. I too have read many of your posts. I have never doubted your or ScionDads intelligence. I am quite convinced you are operating on sound principals. Your theory is sound. All I question is it's application. I understand the theory and application of grounds. The only reference I am making is their specific application as it applies to the Scion. Period. We're on a Scion forum, presumably discussing Scions. My only point is that Scions, in my humble opinion, do not suffer from a poorly designed grounding system. All theories are just that unless you can prove them in your application. I can't at this point. For example, let's say we have a simple circuit consisting of a 12 v. battery, a 12v. bulb of say 3 watts, and positive and negative wires of 14ga., connected appropriately. The bulb lights. All is good. Now if I understand your 'theory', without regards to application, I could surmise that the addition of an 8ga. wire spanning the neg. battery terminal and the neg. side of the bulb would somehow be "better". In theory maybe, in application highly doubtful. I don't fix cars in theory, I work in the real world. I don't have a shadetree understanding of an OBDII fuel control system, I understand all aspects of their operation. Along with a BS in physics and an AAS in avation technology, I hold an A&P liscense, ASE master certification with L1, and Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician certification. As for formal mechanical training, I don't know of any more that I could get. As for experience, I started tinkering in the garage at a very early age. I go to Tech Update classes as offered to learn new stuff. All this said, I still learn new things every day. Some would even consider me an excellent mechanic. But if you were to pull up in your new Chevy and I looked under the hood, I wouldn't have anything intelligent to offer. I don't often work on Chevys, I have little experience with modern Chevys. I am not completely familiar with exactly how Chevy is doing things these days, etc.... I know how they work in THEORY,and given enough time, I could figure any of it out, but for now I would have to say in all honesty, I don't know ____ about Chevys. The theorys I have proven and use regularly on Toyotas might not apply. This where experience plays into the equation. I respect your education and realize that you are probably very good at what you do. My only objection is sometimes on the forum, people mistakenly apply sound theories, and as you know, if it is reapeated twice, it suddenly becomes "fact" to be quoted as such relentlessly. Maybe a better question for you would be "Do you think elaborate ground systems are benificial as relating to a properly operating, late model Scion?" Multiple choice: yes or no. But as I stated before, I never doubt your or ScionDads intelligence. I have read more lucid and helpful posts from the both of you. And you're sorta cute when you're mad!

 

With everything there's room for improvement which is why everyone's here. Toyota has given us a great automobile but it's not perfect. Can they make it close to perfect, sure. Would it be affordable, no. With the design of everything, there is compromise.

Look at the Intake/Exhaust system for instance. The head, header and s-pipe on back are very restrictive. Is there room for improvement with this, absolutely, the Power Hungry forum is devoted to this single topic. Why did Toyota design it this way? Cost, reliability, who knows but they did it anyway. Now I'd assume that by the examples most of the systems the vehicle has that leaves room for improvement, I feel the elcetrical system is no less special and can also be improved upon (at least with the damn LED's anyways ).

We're all intelligent people here for the same reason, to get the most out of these beautiful cars we call Scion's. Besides if there was no room for improvement, tuning/modding would be awfully boring. :D

 

I do not doubt your ability... and I have already answered your question (in every post in here) does it affect the overall performance? Proabably.. by a noticable amount? Probably not. The "theories" I stated are not theories, they are laws of physics.. proven over and over. I also do not have a "shadetree knowledge of ODBII." I learned from a very experienced man and have used that knowledge to troubleshoot many systems on various automobiles. And you shouldnt say you would have nothing to offer on a chevy etc..... OBDII troubleshoots virtually the same way on every vehicle.. the application is a little different.. but the basics are the same. The whole point of OBDII was standardization. I have worked on the systems in Saturns as well as other GMs, Fords (which in my opinion are engineered by amateurs ), and toyotas. Like I said, the other components, systems are different, but with the knowledge of the OBDII system as well as basic control knowledge in the area of automobiles, any competent tech (such as yourself) can find their way to the answer. It is the common issues, specifics that can be found in the manuals, etc that take longer to find... but it is not too hard to figure out. As complicated as they are making them, an automobile control system is still nothing more than a basic closed loop control system. Like I said, I dont doubt you ability, and I am not at all stating wild theories.. I have seen and witnessed these theories in life. I know the value of real life experience, and would not quote any of the facts above without having had that experience. So.... lets all stop, have a beer... and cease the arguing!

 

great thread ,

i am not going to get into my level of education as far as electronics go , my job, or my daily hands on routine with automotive electronics ...

but my thinking is this (just my opinion) :
A) both sides of the thread know what there talking about ( you know who you are )

B) many people have made lots of money pushing the grounding kits

C) added grounding for any scion is a waste of money and time if is to remian in stock form - and will only aviod common aftermarket audio issue's such as... ground loops etc.

as far as the way you spend your money , you can do as you please, for example :
buy a grounding kit (80.00 usd) or buy 8 golden crown air fresheners to sit on your dash (10.00 ea. )

Both will have the same affect on your scions performance and idle ...

 

i bought this from ebay . i have not put it on my tC yet. so from reading the forum its just a waste. o well 10 bucs

 

Your opinion is well noted and you have so right to express it. Grounding kits, if properly installed, have shown many times over of a more stable idle and quicker throttle response. The throttle response has nothing to do with added horsepower and shouldn't be confused.

Scion's use a drive-by-wire system so when you press the pedal, a signal is sent to the ECU to open up the throttle body and increase fuel delivery, accelerating the vehicle. Cable driven cars remove the ECU from the throttle control process, so a ground kit in this application is pointless and will not be noticed at all.

The ECU also controls the air/fuel ratio during idle, starting to see the trend. If cleaner power can be delivered to the ECU, than it can operate better.

This is a mod that I wouldn't spend more than $20 on, but the heart of any electrical system whether it be audio or computer is the grounding system and if it can be improved upon then there are benefits to be redeemed.

 

Maybe my car is a “lemon” but I have to say that the idling is very stable and throttle response is very good. Why spend 20 bucks on a grounding kit just to smooth out an already smooth idle and very responsive throttle? The way gas prices are shooting up I can’t even spare 20 bucks on things that will not help me out at the pump. If you got the money and want something else to add to the list of mods that you have done to your car then go ahead.

 

No, it's not a waste. It will probably yield the best results for any mod you can do for $20, both short and long term. If this theory did not yield results and if the theory was flawed, you would have all kinds of "proof" it is a useless mod. Instead, you get "opinions", usually from people with no true knowledge of the topic. In your case $10.....stickers cost more than that and have no chance of doing anything

 

good response. The car is a fine car....kinda why I bought it. Just keep this mod in the back of your mind....a year or so, you will pull it back out. Frankly, many people do their own by finding scrap 4g speaker wire. Only need about 8 feet of it and some connectors.

 

So you're saying my Type-R stickers don't add horsepower?!

 

No, they only add throttle response and smoothe out the idle.

 

Well, wind tunnel tests show it slows the car down

 

No... you need a big SCION sticker across the top of the windshield.. that'll add at least 50 HP