That all looks good. Except for the end links, stock end links are cheap as possible.
Jethro said it, I will provide a photo and a link to a thread with a DO-IT-Yourself, $20 mod to beef up the end links (on page #7).

Read all about it:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=asc&&start=40

Read the whole thread:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...r=asc&&start=0

Keep those colorfull bars clean. What springs are those blue ones?

 

[quote="jethro_b"]Having just switched from the OEM bars to the Hotchkis bars, I have to totally disagree.

The improvement in the front is equal to the improvement in the rear.

The amount of body roll with the OEM bars was 30cm in the front and rear when I threw the car into turn X @ 40 mph. When I put the rear Hotchkis bar on with the OEM front bar, the body roll in the front was still 30 cm and the rear was 18cm. When I put on the front and rear Hotchkis, body roll in the front and rear was about 18cm. It's logical that companies engineer their front and rear bars to have a balanced response.

When I ran the fast esses with the rear Hotchkis bar and the front OEM bar, it made things worse. The front was still sloppy on turn-in (until the springs kicked in) - and the higher amount of body roll in the front was causing the rear to slide. My runs were fastest with both Hotchkis bars, then the OEMs, then the front OEM with the rear Hotchkis.

I'm also running 1.75 degrees of camber in the front (it was 0.25).

I don't think changing the end link bushings will do very much to prevent body roll, but your results may be different.

-Pete

 

You kinda have to say that because you already spent the coin on them. The stock front bar does a hella job so I can't understand how Hotchkis contiues to sell them but oh well. I'm happy and you're happy and that is what matters most! Win win.

 

the disadvantage with the hotchkis front is it will make the car understeer. it works too well.

 

Kodokan4... I officially call B.S. 30cm of body roll reduced to 18 cm of body roll in a given turn? How the hell are you measuring body roll?

For those that don't know how to do the math he is claiming that with stock equipment the body roll on his xB was 11.8"+/-. And with the front and rear Hotchkis set up he had 7.1"+/-. I really want to know your method for measuring body roll. Especially how you can give such accurate numbers. I am just a laman though. So if I am completely missing something, please educate me.

I have no doubt that the Hotchkis bars significantly reduced your body roll and improved handling. I'm not debating that. What I don't believe are the numbers you posted and their implied accuracy.

 

I don't understand how a hollow bar like the hotchkis can do a better job than the stock solid one. Then you add the other hollow rear bar and it is suppossed to work better than the solid Whiteline one. Just doesn't make logical sense to me. Am I missing something?

 

This has probably been posted a dozen times...

http://www.hotchkistuning.com/bin/Mi...SwayTech-D.pdf

It does make sense once you understand how it works.

 

thats great if you have the money to fine tune a race car but most of us aren't really building full blown race cars to be dropping extra money on a sway bar thats thicker walled than the hotckis one already. when the stock one still works just as well with upgraded endlinks. so it weighs slightly more on an already light weight car. weight is more for your serious track times of auto cross and drag. with an upgraded sway bar they'll bump you up in aut-x class rating too.

 

jethro hollow bars can work as good or better than solid bars.

 

ha ha the hotchkis front bar will slow your times down.

 

They must, but I don't understand how? It just seems logical that a solid bar would be less likely to twist than a hollow one. I'm prolly wrong. This is making my head hurt now! I must go lay down for a bit.

 

Dude... read the link I posted.

Seriously, Hotchkis and other companies oversize bars and then make them hollow. This makes them just as resistant to torsion loads as solid bars while reducing weight. Reducing unsprung weight is always a good thing.

That being said, I probably wouldn't spend the money on a full Hotchkis setup. For daily driving I would go with a Progress rear bar and upgraded end links.

 

OK thanks forgot to read the link. My Bad!

Now it all makes sense. Those Hotchkis pieces would be fine for all out track use but not really needed for street duty. I'll stick with my current set up. Thanks for the info!

 

You are correct that the numbers don't represent actual body roll. The measurement of actual body roll would be extremely complicated, and my JIC suspension doesn't have nearly 15cm of travel per side (I thought that was kind of obvious).

The numbers represent body roll measured in a way simple for a layman to understand. We set up a pendulum from the rear view mirror stalk, and from the rear overhead light. A measuring channel was taped to the dash in the front and to the cargo cover in the back.

The distance that the pendulum moved stayed about the same throughout the testing, but the distance that the body moved explains the different numbers.

The testing wasn't to measure actual numbers, it was to see how the Hotchkis bars compared to the OEM ones. For a general comparison, I think it worked well.

This car is not an xB, it's an xA!

-Pete

 

Wow....it's taken a while but I think it all makes sense.

Kodokan_4,.......I can't beleive it has taken so long for us to find out you have an XA. The stock setup for the XA is quite a bit more neutral than the XB. Add the stiff coilovers & front negative camber and the front wheels can "hook up" reducing understeer. This is likely a balanced setup with no added bars. All you needed was to stiffen front and rear together. No wonder the Hotchkis bars are a good fit. I still don't see how you are getting such a huge reduction in roll with and without the bars.

Anyhow, XB's need to work harder on the rear roll to find a balanced setup. Adding some front camber would certainly help as this would add front grip. For most who lower, negative camber in the front typically results. This does not do enough alone on the XB. For this reason, stiffer rear sway bars are commonly added to find balance.

 

I installed Energy Suspension complete End Links and used custom aluminum spacers to set the sway bar at factory height.

The end links didn't affect body roll, but they tightened up the steering a lot. It's especially noticeable before the sway bar and coilovers kick in. The steering response is slower, though, so I'll have to get used to that.

-Pete

 

This makes no sense. Please explain.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. I explained above: "The end links didn't affect body roll, but they tightened up the steering a lot. It's especially noticeable before the sway bar and coilovers kick in. The steering response is slower, though, so I'll have to get used to that."

The spindley OEM end links give a quick, light feel to the steering wheel. When driving straight (and moving the wheel a few degrees either way), you can feel the action of the end links, not the sway bar. When turning into a corner, first you feel the action of the end links, then the sway bar, then the coils.

The difference between the OEM end links and the aftermarket links is huge and eliminates the quick response of the steering wheel to input.

Probably, most people don't feel anything. It's somewhat easier to differentiate, since I'm going from OEM to aftermarket parts.

-Pete

 

Adding the sway bar end links takes away the "slop" that is associated with the initial activation of the front sway bar. The bushings also make the sway bar force transfer more efficient. The bushings do not impact the steering directly, however, you can feel the effect of the bushings as if it is "tightening up" the steering. This is because as you turn, the vehicle leans a little when you steer. With the stiff bushings, you can feel this resistance. With the stock bushings, this small amount of lean would not be counteracted by the sway bar as this is within the "slop" of the stock bushings, hence the light, on center feel of the steering.

As far as feeling the bushings, then the sway, then the coils.....They all work is unison as they are all a part of the same chain. No one part acts, then the other. This is especially so when the "slop" is removed.

Steering response being slower doesn't make sense to me. The sway bar bushings should have no impact on this.

 

I bought the complete end links and used custom spacers to set the bar at OEM height.






-Pete