So why worry with what a wing on the back would do if not comparing it in some way to the front. A wing has nothing to do with lift on the front of the car.

 

i was comparing wind forces of a wing versus a scoop.

up/down it doesn't matter.. if your wing creates 50lbs of force, up or down, how do you think a hood scoop attached to a short flimsy hood is gonna create even a fraction of that much down/up force?

oh, and as far as flaming the xB.. well i'm not.. i was just making a point that having such a large front end will basically remove any opportunity for air to enter a forward facing scoop..

i see no one is arguing with my barrel theory.. good job.

 

[quote="erikcooper"]fyi a 55 gallon drum has nothing to do with a scion either..

 

[quote="CivicEater"]ohh, I thought you were suggesting that we cut a 55 gal drum length wise and mount it on the trunk as a wing for down force and install an airhose as an diffuser? did I do this wrong?

 

Ok, now it makes sense. I understand what you are saying.



True the drum has nothing to do with a scion but it made a good point.

 

well if the desired effect is to mount a hood scoop to a scion and have it not create excessive lift as in the heavy-assed-horizonttially-opposed-engined all wheeldriven tank known as the subaru sti.... the following approach can be taken.

Epifany#1 it’s the beer keg in the back that really create the downforce. Not the 55-gallon drum.
as we all know, frat boys eat allot of pizza, and gain 10 pounds a semester. (GO GOPHERS!1!1!)

Reasonable assumption #1 ANY day of the week when you find beer in a bus, or in this example, pony kegs in the back in teh scion, you will get frat boys wanting free rides and free beer...

Reasonable assumption #2 as we can surmise, fat frats in the back constitutes a significant weight gain for the scion.

Epiphany #2 Take into consideration, bB384's theorem that gross vehicle weight proportionally offsets said vehicle’s vulnerability to wind, drag, lift, and pretty much all matter anti matter and the pull of black holes..

Reasonable and well informed conclusion. It is now safe to conclude that a 55 gallon drum (i.e. two or 3 kegs of P.B.R.) would allow the scion to have a hood scoop, and still stay attached to the pavement similar to the heavy-assed-horizonttially-opposed-engined all wheeldriven tank known as the subaru sti...

/hugs

 

DISCOPOPE= astrophysics major? :D







b.t.w. I think my mom went to Univ. of MN. Library sciences or something IIRC.

 

pirated from NASIOC

sorry guys

 

No disco pope doesn't need to be an astrophysics major....he has common sense and a larger-than-the-average-STI-driver's vocabulary

Jeff

 

Weight doesn't directly affect aerodynamics. I may be wrong, But a light weight car can have trouble keeping its stability at high speeds. Isn't why they lighten a car and add a spoiler?

NOW DON'T QUOTE ME I MAY BE WRONG HERE...

 

Most folks lighten a car for a better weight /power ratio.
Most people put a wing on the car to look cool. (i will skip the debate on spoiler vs wing for the moment)

a lighter car has less mass equating to a reduced prerequisite of friction when attempting asphalt adherence. It all goes in a big circle...

Light car, less friction,
Light car less inertia.
Less inertia, less friction required to stick it to the road....

Newton’s law #1

 

you're not even considering aerodynamics in this whole weight vs stability thing..

a lightweight car will be more affected by crosswinds yes, but i'll guarantee the heavier xB is more affected by wind than my lighter xA.

cuz one's a toaster and one's an egg..

 

2004 Scion xA = 2340
2004 Scion xB = 2425

I don't think 85 lbs would make that much difference, but yes, you are correct.

3GG80X is

 

The point is simple...

Your ___ weighs more then the possible upforce or lift that the wind or pressure you say will give.


With that said, you also have to remember that there is air already flowing underneath the car. IF you measure that you would realize that it has a hell of alot more possiblility of a lift going on then then a silly hood scoop that gets diffused while it goes around the engine bay. Yes I said diffused, is that a new word? If anything most air would become diffused from the front nose and bumper. This is why airplanes are much more sleek and have actual wings that create lift.

There's a video of an Rx-7 I believe started going airborne at around 160+.

Quick explanation of Hyrdroplaning and when it happens... http://www.msgroup.org/TIP089.html
Hyrdoplaning is when your car looses traction with the road becuase of road surface not becuase of the car lifting like an airplane. Yes if you go over a cliff you will fly, well more exactly fall.

And it's right about the car itself... The tires would stay contacted but the body itself might (highly highly higly improbable) lift at least a little bit from a scoop of some sort. But that usually happens anyways at high speeds becuase of the design of the car.

I like the whole lighter car, less inertia, less friction, less force to keep it on the ground. But for me at least I wonder if a heavier car is better behind a huge truck. For me at least I get alot of air and it moves my car alot.

Besides my babbling and probably not making sense becuase I am so just in awe of the ignorance... here it goes...

Let's review again, your ___ still weighs more then the possible upforce or lift that the wind or pressure you say will give.

 

Thats why I'm preachin that the xB needs as much downforce as possible to keep it stable. Now let't squash this cuz I'm tired of drama. You think I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'll be the idiot with a reverse scoop you be the smarter ones with a ram air scoop. I tried to offer my advice in hopes of helping someone out.

I've learned to keep my ideas/thoughts/advice to myself.

 

i for one appreciated the input. i don't think that you should let a bunch of people who aren't even a part of this forum discourage you from trying to help. cause, all in all, everything they said just supported what you said. they just said that it wasn't as extreme as THEY thought you meant. in any case, i would rant and rave about certain things, but it would just start another flame. so thank you for your input bB384.

matt

 

bB384 you are so stupid man, keep driving the scion ok man?

scion is a p.o.s. :D

 

Registering to a forum, just to post that someone is stupid takes a lot of intelligence. Standing ovation to you my friend. So, Scionisapos...lets here your input on what you know about hood scoop aerodynamics.

 

lol i'll remember this

 

Hey bB384,

I just read over this thread and want to buy the rights to your idea! I'm in the process of writing up a patent pending hood scoop design that will literally transform the automobile/aviation industries!

I've did all the calculations and I'm going to make a hood scoop that is 24'w X 6'h and doesn't send all the air into the intake or through the engine compartment, but instead channels it directly under the car.

Based on Newton's Formula Lift=(V X V(2))/weight I've calculated that my Xb will be airborne at the easily attainable speed of 212mph. Given the hefty 4 banger in the box, it should be no problem getting air or even doing tricks, spins and sumersaults with my patented "WHAA WHAA" button that changes the trajectory of the incoming wind force allowing the driver/pilot to do mid air stunts!

This is REVOLUTIONARY and I owe it all to you bB384. I know what you're thinking and don't worry, I'll hook you up when I make my first Trillion dollars. Who would have thought that the secret to making the first ever flying car was right there in front of us all these years!!?? I know who. bB384. You Knew.

Kevin saw it, Kevin thought it, Kevin posted it.