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hypermiling RPM experiment

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Old Jun 20, 2008 | 07:12 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by stew32
Originally Posted by drbaillie
I'm tempted to pick up a ScanGauge for that instant-gratification but I'm curious: how exactly does it determine mpg? What's it measuring for fuel consumption, is this fed from the engine management system? For those that have one, how does it compare to the pen-and-paper calculations based on fill-up volume and mileage (given the known 3% variance in odo reading, etc. etc.)?
It plugs into the ODBII port, so yes, it's from the car's ECU. Someone else can probably answer your MPG questions or they've been posted before. You can save adjustments in the setup for tire or gearing changes so you could enter a correction. I recall someone posting that it actually has the correct odo reading and just displays a lower speed reading? I'm not concerned about a 3% variance.

Anyway, I say get one! I got mine just because the xB lacks gauges.
How does the ScanGaugeII calculate the MPG?
Basically yes it gets all the data it needs from the ECU and takes the engine size and speed correction you input into consideration from there Linear-Logic has its own proprietary algorithm to add it all together.

As for saving the corrections you make it does… but only to the extent that you don’t change them meaning that you can’t have it set up for car 1 and a 2nd for car 2.

It is easier than the pen and paper in that all the data is there, display and ready to go! Most people forget and or don’t want to add it together plus you get current trip, totals for the day, totals for the tank and totals for yesterday not to mention the digital gauges. Only downside is that it is not yet to the point that all the data is logged so unless you manually record min and max’s they will be overwritten.
Old Jun 20, 2008 | 10:45 PM
  #42  
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Thanks!
Old Jun 21, 2008 | 03:31 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by WhoKilledTheJAMs
Originally Posted by emximer
I'm pretty sure keeping the RPMs lower will help your MPG a little, I always shift around 2.5k and I get 39MPG in a rural, hilly area
Exactly. Higher RPMs = higher fuel consumption. I wish 5th gear in our cars was taller. There's no reason why I shouldn't be turning 2k RPM at 70mph.

I really need to get a Scangauge.
When one of us figures out how to get a Celica 6 Speed Transmission put in our xB then it will help...lol
Old Jun 21, 2008 | 07:07 AM
  #44  
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The steep windshield makes me not want to go above 65 mph for the most part.

Also running at 3,000 rpms constantly burns some gas!
Old Jun 21, 2008 | 07:30 AM
  #45  
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i generally get around 32-35mpg regardless of my driving habits.

also, do know that if you are to down shift and use the engine/tranny to help slow the vehicle, you are now in fuel cut mod. when the engine see's reverted forces on it EI down shifting and using it as a slight break, the ECU cuts fuel to the engine and the sound you are hearing is just air being compressed out the exhaust. so if you want to see some improvements and have a manual tranny, down shift and engine break your self and put your self into fuel cut mod and use no gas/no energy to slow down and ultimately save cash on your break pads. remember to rev match before letting the clutch back in so prevent extra clutch wear and to prevent "un-experienced honda down shifting".
Old Jun 21, 2008 | 09:06 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Winter
remember to rev match before letting the clutch back in so prevent extra clutch wear and to prevent "un-experienced honda down shifting".
I don't understand this part ??
Please advise further.
Old Jun 22, 2008 | 04:16 AM
  #47  
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this is one of the best mileage topics ive read on this site in quite some time, great responses and very educational, thanks all!
Old Jun 22, 2008 | 02:18 PM
  #48  
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I have a Scangauge and average about 42 mpg. Highest of 45, I never drive above 60mph on the highway though, because I am crazy like that.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 05:39 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Winter
i generally get around 32-35mpg regardless of my driving habits.

also, do know that if you are to down shift and use the engine/tranny to help slow the vehicle, you are now in fuel cut mod. when the engine see's reverted forces on it EI down shifting and using it as a slight break, the ECU cuts fuel to the engine and the sound you are hearing is just air being compressed out the exhaust. so if you want to see some improvements and have a manual tranny, down shift and engine break your self and put your self into fuel cut mod and use no gas/no energy to slow down and ultimately save cash on your break pads. remember to rev match before letting the clutch back in so prevent extra clutch wear and to prevent "un-experienced honda down shifting".
I can't tell for sure, but I think you're suggesting downshifting instead of braking to increase your mileage. Not a good idea. It's better to leave the car in top gear using the brakes to stop and pushing in the clutch when the revs are down to the idle speed.

The drive train is for . . . driving. The brakes are for . . . braking.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 07:21 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by pooder
Originally Posted by Winter
i generally get around 32-35mpg regardless of my driving habits.

also, do know that if you are to down shift and use the engine/tranny to help slow the vehicle, you are now in fuel cut mod. when the engine see's reverted forces on it EI down shifting and using it as a slight break, the ECU cuts fuel to the engine and the sound you are hearing is just air being compressed out the exhaust. so if you want to see some improvements and have a manual tranny, down shift and engine break your self and put your self into fuel cut mod and use no gas/no energy to slow down and ultimately save cash on your break pads. remember to rev match before letting the clutch back in so prevent extra clutch wear and to prevent "un-experienced honda down shifting".
I can't tell for sure, but I think you're suggesting downshifting instead of braking to increase your mileage. Not a good idea. It's better to leave the car in top gear using the brakes to stop and pushing in the clutch when the revs are down to the idle speed.

The drive train is for . . . driving. The brakes are for . . . braking.
engine braking has been done for years... and i've done it on every manual i've ever driven without a single problem. race cars do it all the time aswell because they are moving too quickly to be slamming on their brakes and wrap rotors. using the engine as a slight break puts the engine into fuel cut mode thus using NO GAS where as idle still requires gas to keep that idle. there's nothing wrong with engine braking, there IS something wrong with engine braking though if you don't do it right E.I. not rev matching on a weaker drive train like the C50 tranny or mis-shifting and hitting the wrong gear. unexperienced drivers shouldn't do it period unless they've dumped over 5 grand into the tranny and gotten them selfs a straight cut gear set with dog engagement that gets rid of the syncros and replaces the older weaker gears with bullet proof ones...

only time i've ever had a problem with it was on the xB and that was because someone at the factory didn't give the tranny it's full 1.9-2 quarts of oil, it was more like 1.1-1.2 quarts and caused grinding issues. now that i've replaced the factory oil with new oil and the right amount of it, hasn't happened since.

EDIT: also, if i were to pull into neutral while costing and something were to jump into my way and i needed the power of my engine for any reason at all and i didn't have enough time to be an idiot and slam on my brakes... what then? when keeping your gears and engine braking you have a much higher reflex capability to get out of your problem quickly with the most control over your vehicle. keeping your engine in it's power band will keep you with control of the vehicle. if a tire pops, what do you do? you DON'T slam on your brakes, bad idea... you throw it into a semi-high gear, say one below what you were cruising at and slowly engine brake your self to the side of the road safely. what happens when some idiot runs a stop sign or red light and it's too close to hit the brakes? you turn in the opposite direction that the other car is traveling and use your engine braking as a way of keeping control of the vehicle and THEN slowly use your brakes to stop and make sure the other driver didn't wreck them selfs. for the highest control of your vehicle, engine braking is key to both control of the vehicle and your surroundings.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 07:29 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Winter
race cars do it all the time aswell
Oh well, I guess that means it's a good idea, then.

Nevermind.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 07:31 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by pooder
Originally Posted by Winter
race cars do it all the time aswell
Oh well, I guess that means it's a good idea, then.

Nevermind.
i was using that as an example, not as a reason why to do it. please look up and read the edited addon.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 07:42 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Winter
i was using that as an example, not as a reason why to do it. please look up and read the edited addon.
If your goal is to get better mileage, keeping the car in high gear will result in better mileage than downshifting. Braking with the brakes is also better on the car than braking with the drive train. You might have other reasons to use engine braking; I use it often myself, both in my cars and on my motorcycles. But it is not a good technique for the stated goals of this thread.
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 08:47 PM
  #54  
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ok, so engine braking, which CUTS ALL FUEL use off during given time of engine braking... has nothing to do with a thread about saving fuel?

funny... i thought not using any fuel to begin with was saving fuel...
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 08:52 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Winter
ok, so engine braking, which CUTS ALL FUEL use off during given time of engine braking... has nothing to do with a thread about saving fuel?

funny... i thought not using any fuel to begin with was saving fuel...
Leaving it in top gear does the same thing. And during the time you're downshifting, what is happening? The engine is running, BURNING FUEL. Yes, use engine braking as you slow, but no, if you don't need to, don't downshift. It's better for your drivetrain, and it SAVES FUEL better than downshifting.

(Gotta love shouting in ALL CAPS ;^)
Old Jun 26, 2008 | 11:21 PM
  #56  
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keeping gear forces to the engine, fuel cut mode comes in during this time which cuts off fuel supply to the engine period until the negative force is taken off the engine or when engine speed *rpm* starts to get close to the programed idle point.

fuel cut mode means no fuel... none, zilch, nothing, z-e-r-o fuel being used during that time. it's the difference between used fuel in order to keep an idle and forced engine speed done through the drivetrain and the physical traveling speed of the vehicle. without fuel cut there would be ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fuel consumption during forced negative movement.

here's a good example for you. next time you are out on the freeway and going down a hill that would normally require a bit of braking to keep your speed at a level that doesn't catch the attention of cops, use your 5th gear as your braking system and to keep at a specific speed, don't use any throttle at all and only use the brakes unless you have to slow your self a little more then what the engine can provide. during that entire time, you wont be using any fuel what so ever where as if you were to go into neutral and use your brakes, not only are you using fuel to keep engine idle AND to rev match back up to engine speed to match with your cruising gear, you are are putting more wear and tear on your brakes pads as well. as weak as the transmission is *C50*, it IS strong enough to do such a simple task. it's only weak when it comes to power and shear performance abuse. every day driving wont hurt it at all, it's Toyota for crying out loud... common!
Old Jun 27, 2008 | 12:49 AM
  #57  
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Downshifting = higher RPMs = more fuel used.

Engine braking may use a little bit less gas but you can coast 3-4 times as far in neutral.
Old Jun 27, 2008 | 12:55 AM
  #58  
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wow... now another.

it's under fuel cut mode which means ZERO fuel, why can't you register that?
Old Jun 27, 2008 | 12:57 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by pooder
...If your goal is to get better mileage, keeping the car in high gear will result in better mileage than downshifting. Braking with the brakes is also better on the car than braking with the drive train....
I am in agreement with pooder.

And as said previously (I think..I read fast), brakes are cheaper than anything in your trans.

And breaks are for work, not cars.
Old Jun 27, 2008 | 12:59 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Winter
wow... now another.

it's under fuel cut mode which means ZERO fuel, why can't you register that?
and you get 3-4 times more miles in N. why cant you register that?



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